Peter Daniel said:
Peter,
Does this mean considering cost/performance, the CDM 12 is the better choice?
Greetings,
Jan
CDM12 is the worst choice 😉 It has the questionable reputation of being the most failing Philips mechanics ever. And it has most revisions of all too. A flimsy piece of sad cheapness if you ask me. Please look how the laser uses a piece of plastic from the chassis as a bearing...
As you can see I am not too fond of them ( from own experience ). Read a lot of reviews on cdplayers that used them and nearly always there was the question of firmware that had to be adapted because of problems ( MicroMega etc. ). And the question of a breaking spindle with the first ones and the wrong grease that was applied on the bearing. The VAM series is a real improvement. CD Pro 2 is a beauty to look at 😎
CDM12 has the advantage of a very low price however ( IIRC 40 or 50 Euro ?!?! ). But an old cdplayer with a healthy CDM1/4/9 swingarm
outperforms it easily.
As you can see I am not too fond of them ( from own experience ). Read a lot of reviews on cdplayers that used them and nearly always there was the question of firmware that had to be adapted because of problems ( MicroMega etc. ). And the question of a breaking spindle with the first ones and the wrong grease that was applied on the bearing. The VAM series is a real improvement. CD Pro 2 is a beauty to look at 😎
CDM12 has the advantage of a very low price however ( IIRC 40 or 50 Euro ?!?! ). But an old cdplayer with a healthy CDM1/4/9 swingarm
outperforms it easily.
jean-paul said:
I believe I blew my CD12 transport yesterday as I was experimenting with it. The spindle and tray motors run continously now, so I will either modify my Sony player or go for CD Pro😉
My initial findigs were that it sounded not bad, but didn't have refinements of CD Pro (but wasn't modified either). Also it skipped at the end of a disk and I found out that the rail and gears didn't have any grease on them (only remains of some old, dried stuff).
That is standard with these mechanics.
And when you think that Marantz CD36/48/63/67/17 have one...
BTW I read earlier in this thread that CD Pro 2 is a kind of replacement for CDM12. I believe this is not the case ! VAM mechanics are in some revisions direct replacements ( of higher quality ) for CDM12. I recently saw the new CD Pro 2 ( it was labelled VAUxxxx ) play at a friends and it doesn't even look like a CDM12. It also has all electronics except keyboard controller/display/power supply on board underneath the mechanics. So servo's and DAC etc. are there. The onboard DAC made me frown but when used with I2S and non os TDA1543 DAC it was very good.
But not worth the money for me...
From mechanical POV, they are quite different, with CD-Pro being indeed nice piece of engineering.
I noticed that the laser on CDM12 uses a piece of plastic from the chassis as a bearing yesterday and was quite surprised.
Tell me more, how bad CDM12 is, so maybe I'll feel better after my yesterday's loss.😉
I noticed that the laser on CDM12 uses a piece of plastic from the chassis as a bearing yesterday and was quite surprised.
Tell me more, how bad CDM12 is, so maybe I'll feel better after my yesterday's loss.😉
Want more ?
OK, it has a plastic
lens that's very vulnerable. It doesn't read all obscure CDR's and forget about CDRW's. It stinks. It is worse than ALL Sony mechanics ( oops that's a very disgraceful remark ). It was not designed for audio but mainly for CDROM purposes IIRC. Do you need more info to forget the tragic 
loss ?
I have one for comparison purposes at home to show to people why their CDM1/4/9 's are so well built. I really have to fight with myself not to put my heel on it most of the time ...
You couldn't believe it eh ? That it ever worked I mean ...
OK, it has a plastic
lens that's very vulnerable. It doesn't read all obscure CDR's and forget about CDRW's. It stinks. It is worse than ALL Sony mechanics ( oops that's a very disgraceful remark ). It was not designed for audio but mainly for CDROM purposes IIRC. Do you need more info to forget the tragic loss ?I have one for comparison purposes at home to show to people why their CDM1/4/9 's are so well built. I really have to fight with myself not to put my heel on it most of the time ...
You couldn't believe it eh ? That it ever worked I mean ...
till said:
definetely, but a very expensive piece of solid alu (or Zamac)
Would it sound beter ?
The rest equals CDM12.4
all the best
Hi Guido, what do you mean ? That other Philips mechanics equal CDM 12.4 😕 Or do you mean the prices to built a cdplayer with either CDM12 or CD Pro 2 ?!?! Or that CDM12.4 equals CD Pro 2 apart from the metal chassis ? That would surprise me, CDM12.4 is different from other CDM12.xx
then ?
Don't know about that but it'll surely live longer !
jean-paul said:
Hi JP
You are right:
I have been too fast, I should have said that the drive (motor) and pick up unit is the same
Electronics are different, but I do not know details of both CDM12.4 and CD2pro
Guido
thats right. but, some people really don´t want to read it: i did NOT pay 500€ for the CD PRO2. I doubt anybody pays 100€ shipping costs AND VAT. Who has to pay VAT has low shipping costs and reverse. So nobody needs to pay all this 500€ from the website. I suspect Nico writes a extra high price on the site to keep schoolboys away from the idea: "hey cool, a diy CDP -- i must have this"
He don´t wants to be bombed with emails asking for help with the problems that would result.
Else i would like to have a nice old swingarm CDP, but we don´t have a used audio equipment shop in this area, and ebay i can´t look if the CDP is what i really want.
😕
All these names...looking at a 12.1 (MicroMega-unit) and a 12.4 (SonicFrontiers SFT-1), they are mechanically 100% the same, only change is laser-unit, and carriage-motor.
ArneK
P.S: Jean-Paul, would you mind do us a favour listing ALL(you can remember) sving-arm CD player-models, for us bargain-hunters...
All these names...looking at a 12.1 (MicroMega-unit) and a 12.4 (SonicFrontiers SFT-1), they are mechanically 100% the same, only change is laser-unit, and carriage-motor.
ArneK
P.S: Jean-Paul, would you mind do us a favour listing ALL(you can remember) sving-arm CD player-models, for us bargain-hunters...
Jean Paul: are all CDM12.x (all revisions) the same bad quality?
This makes my choice easier, since I was also thinking about buying a marantz CD63 or CD67. They have CDM12, so I'll look for something else.
But I'm a little affraid of using old mechanisms, like CDM1/49, how long would they work?
Is there no recent and good mechanism, except the CD PRO2?
Does no new mechanism outperform an old CDM1, 4 or 9? (for less that 1000$ 😀)
This makes my choice easier, since I was also thinking about buying a marantz CD63 or CD67. They have CDM12, so I'll look for something else.
But I'm a little affraid of using old mechanisms, like CDM1/49, how long would they work?
Is there no recent and good mechanism, except the CD PRO2?
Does no new mechanism outperform an old CDM1, 4 or 9? (for less that 1000$ 😀)
Cobra2 said:
Hello Arne, there are quite a few brands and types with CDM1/4/9. Too many to mention really. Mostly I recognise them when I see the drawer, they have a different open space cut out because of the swingarm. Brand and type are not very interesting, it has to work. I avoid CDM2 machines and the very old 14 bit ones.
I like the CD6xx ( 634,624 etc. ) series from Philips although they're 1 bit with CDM4. Most of all I like Arcam players with CDM4 in them ( Delta 70.2 etc ). Marantz CD40/50/60/80, some Technics SLPJ old types are OK too. I don't care about the material used for the case.
Some very well built, others made from cheap plastic. The age of the players leaves us only one criterium: is the laser OK ?
When you see it has a good laser buy it anyway. It may come handy as a spare when you find a broken CD80 😉 Do not forget you will nearly always have to mod any standard cdplayer with a CDM mechanics for decent results. When left standard they're nothing special apart from their error correction and readability of bad cd's.
Hello Bricolo, I stopped counting with CDM12.3 I think. So I can't say a word about newer revisions. The ones in CD63 and CD67 are the old weak ones.
I can't possibly answer your question how long old lasers will work. I have a good stock of spares for my own use and I very seldom have to change one.To be exact, I have replaced 0 till now in my own cdplayers. They live too long when compared to CDM12.xx 😉 I am sure that one won't last 13 to 14 years.
I am sure there are better mechanics out there but not for the price you pay for an old cdplayer with a good but old CDM. I like the Sony mechanics used in CDP-X3000ES and CDP-X5000ES too. The ones used in 920/930QS seem fine too. It is a matter of taste and money. I decided for myself to continue looking in bric-a-brac shops for the oldies and when I find a scratchless example with a good laser for 20 Euros my day is OK
jean-paul said:
Hello Arne, there are quite a few brands and types with CDM1/4/9. Too many to mention really. Mostly I recognise them when I see the drawer, they have a different open space cut out because of the swingarm. Brand and type are not very interesting, it has to work. I avoid CDM2 machines and the very old 14 bit ones.
I like the CD6xx ( 634,624 etc. ) series from Philips although they're 1 bit with CDM4. Most of all I like Arcam players with CDM4 in them ( Delta 70.2 etc ). Marantz CD40/50/60/80, some Technics SLPJ old types are OK too. I don't care about the material used for the case.
Some very well built, others made from cheap plastic. The age of the players leaves us only one criterium: is the laser OK ?
When you see it has a good laser buy it anyway. It may come handy as a spare when you find a broken CD80 😉 Do not forget you will nearly always have to mod any standard cdplayer with a CDM mechanics for decent results. When left standard they're nothing special apart from their error correction and readability of bad cd's.
Hello Bricolo, I stopped counting with CDM12.3 I think. So I can't say a word about newer revisions. The ones in CD63 and CD67 are the old weak ones.
I can't possibly answer your question how long old lasers will work. I have a good stock of spares for my own use and I very seldom have to change one.To be exact, I have replaced 0 till now in my own cdplayers. They live too long when compared to CDM12.xx 😉 I am sure that one won't last 13 to 14 years.
I am sure there are better mechanics out there but not for the price you pay for an old cdplayer with a good but old CDM. I like the Sony mechanics used in CDP-X3000ES and CDP-X5000ES too. The ones used in 920/930QS seem fine too. It is a matter of taste and money. I decided for myself to continue looking in bric-a-brac shops for the oldies and when I find a scratchless example with a good laser for 20 Euros my day is OK
and what do you think about the mechanism in the CD-6000? (VAM1201 )
I am visiting Holger Stein this friday just to have a look at his cd-players. Is there anyone who has questions for him?
Greetings,
Jan
Greetings,
Jan
Leeuwarden said:
Hoi Jan
I'd like to know what one can or has to order to complete a CD player. I think he offers both CDM1201 and CD2pro ?
The daisy web site is very untransparant to my eyes....
enjoy the trip
Guido
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