Bricolo,
They were stand alone ready to use transports.
You could build a DAC and you would be good to go.
KevinLee
They were stand alone ready to use transports.
You could build a DAC and you would be good to go.
KevinLee
KevinLee said:
CD-Pro 2 cost me CAD 500 after all expenses, if I remember correctly. PS and chassiss was not more than $200 (some parts surplus, some I already had). I still didn't built in a DAC and so far I was using it as a transport only with a Broadhurst DAC (CS8420, PDF1704, parallell PCM1704). I was happy with that setup for a year.
Recently I modified my Marantz CD-94 that I had as long as I remember. In some other threads I already mentioned what i did, but basically converted to non-oversampling, upgraded and simplified output stage with OPA627 and replaced all electrolytics and addedd PS bypassing in all strategic locations.
I compared this player to Broadhurst DAC, which is using pretty recent digital technology and TDA1543 based outboard DAC (Marantz as a transport). To say at least, Marantz as a stand alone player beats all the other DACs. I didn't compare it to CD-Pro as a transport, but my feeling is it's not too far apart.
So if you don't want to invest into a lot of work, playing with different setups, PS, chassiss building, parts swapping and so on, find yourself a good older Philips based player and modify it. There a re some players on a market, which supposedly are build solidly and have every reason to sound right, but after closer listening inspection, they are lifeless (some Sony and recent Technics, A10, players I checked). They are either musical or not, and I don't really don't know what it depends on, but with a right choice and smart modifiacations, you may have a winner. And your time involvement will be much less than starting from a scratch.
Which doesn't mean I won't build another player again. I recently bought CDM12 from a forum member, and Holger Stein says he prefers it to CD-Pro. I listened a bit to it and it sounds fine, definitely has potential.
The
"Remote relay volume control" (Apox)
thread has started addressing the idea of using a $30 Teac PC
CD drive and controlling it with the Apox controller. Apparently some high end companies use this drive.
Who knows how long we will need to wait, but the Dipchip people that are making stuff pretty quickly if an idea catches their interest. Of course if you are in a hurry... maybe start making a DAC, because that will be requiered
"Remote relay volume control" (Apox)
thread has started addressing the idea of using a $30 Teac PC
CD drive and controlling it with the Apox controller. Apparently some high end companies use this drive.
Who knows how long we will need to wait, but the Dipchip people that are making stuff pretty quickly if an idea catches their interest. Of course if you are in a hurry... maybe start making a DAC, because that will be requiered
Peter Daniel said:
ok, an old philips (or marrantz...); do you have a specific model in mind? or a specific transport that is used in the player?
Marantz CD-94 or Revox B226s. They both use CDM-1 drive. They are regarded by some to be the best players of the old school. After playing with one, I might as well cofirm it.😉
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2829&highlight=revox
http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/hi_fi/com.htm and
http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/hi_fi/cd960.htm
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2829&highlight=revox
http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/hi_fi/com.htm and
http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/hi_fi/cd960.htm
cd 600 = fine!
Hi,
The cd 6000 without 'OSE' and 'KI' is excellent as a player, although I don't have one DVV, reccommended this to me (the OSE and KI's are not really worth the extra expense for a modder if the basic unit can be had). He says you can replace torroids, resistors (with bulk foils) and opamps (BB or AD), you would come up with a really top end machine. To be honest Briocolo you seem to have been walking around in circles with this cd player lark for a long time (sorry if this sounds rough but it's an observation), I remember one of the last threads which went on for ages like a five set tennis match.
There's always gonna be pros and cons mate!
the 2 very best options I can see giving your fear and potential for expenditure are the stein transport or a marantz cd 6000 (cause it's not too old, so you don't have to worry too much about anti wine syndrome!)
Lets face it you're looking at a philips transport aren't you? Or if possible Pioneer, but I think this may be the weaker option cause the afformentioned PDS series is old?
You can slowly mod a cd 6000 over time, with less hassle than the stein. And also you won't be short of cash forever and ever will you? so if the transport does die you can probably replace it.
I recently purchased a marantz cd 52 mk II, which is around ten years old, and it works fine and is excellent for mods. But in this game there's no guarantee's, one has to take some level of risk in life, otherwise better to stay in bed (even that's risky!).
Hope this helps you somewhat!!
Thanks
Raja
Hi,
The cd 6000 without 'OSE' and 'KI' is excellent as a player, although I don't have one DVV, reccommended this to me (the OSE and KI's are not really worth the extra expense for a modder if the basic unit can be had). He says you can replace torroids, resistors (with bulk foils) and opamps (BB or AD), you would come up with a really top end machine. To be honest Briocolo you seem to have been walking around in circles with this cd player lark for a long time (sorry if this sounds rough but it's an observation), I remember one of the last threads which went on for ages like a five set tennis match.
There's always gonna be pros and cons mate!
the 2 very best options I can see giving your fear and potential for expenditure are the stein transport or a marantz cd 6000 (cause it's not too old, so you don't have to worry too much about anti wine syndrome!)
Lets face it you're looking at a philips transport aren't you? Or if possible Pioneer, but I think this may be the weaker option cause the afformentioned PDS series is old?
You can slowly mod a cd 6000 over time, with less hassle than the stein. And also you won't be short of cash forever and ever will you? so if the transport does die you can probably replace it.
I recently purchased a marantz cd 52 mk II, which is around ten years old, and it works fine and is excellent for mods. But in this game there's no guarantee's, one has to take some level of risk in life, otherwise better to stay in bed (even that's risky!).
Hope this helps you somewhat!!
Thanks
Raja
I'm not stuck to philips transports, but they seem to be the most popular/ or the most modded
and I don't know if the other ones are so easilly tweakable, do other brands have an I2S output that I can use for a simple DAC design?
and I don't know if the other ones are so easilly tweakable, do other brands have an I2S output that I can use for a simple DAC design?
philips transports
Hi Briocolo,
Lets break this down a bit,
1) You want a good cdp within your budget.
2) You want to add your own dac if possible using a 12s output.
3) Over 2 diiferent topics on this type of subject you've had a veritable feast of replies.
Now we can see that a couple of things are becoming prevalant here,
1) The name marantz keeps cropping up.
Why? Cause ther machines are fairly readily available, and also they have a reputation for using some of the most renowned transports, which are used in hifi and also serious audiophile products.
2) The cd pro option is just too expensive for your budget.
This safley rules this out for discussion form here on in.
3) You are worried about older machines and the failing of lasers and transports.
Okay so we can't get a guarantee of how long a second hand machine will al last. But here is a rational solution,
a marantz player, especially something like a cd 6000...................
Why? Well 2 reasons,
a) It is no too old as a marantz model, well within your budget, and can be tweaked to perform to a very very high level.
b) The transport is by philips, and as you live in europe should the worst happen, perhaps you could track down a replacment.
The stein CDM12,
Okay with this the price seems good, but there are other cons,
1) you need to put in more work to get a finished machine.
Okay if you are fanatic about building things that's fine.
the pros are that you could get pleasure in doing everything yourself.
But we all should remember 1 very very important thing, we ALL SHOULD BE DOING THIS SO WE CAN LISTEN TO MUSIC, so sometimes the prebuilt player and tweaks path is definatley better.
Just think you can listen to the music of your choice a lot quicker if you don't have to spend hours building things.
As an example just look at Peter's findings
The standalone marantz comes out on top!!!!!!!!
Now as regards to 12s and other transports I don't know Briocolo.
But my friend, you really have to sit down and look at the replies people like Peter have given you. Take in and assimilate the info before replying.
One of the worst things that happens in these types of situations is that newcomers to this diy trip get a hundred ideas at the same time, and want to build everything right now.
To worsen matters there's no shortage of new posts with the latest brilliant sounding tweaks and upgrades.
So what happens, every time you settle on your next project the latest way or components are used with even better claimed results.
In my limited experience Briocolo you have to settle strong mindidly on your decision. Choose a player and go for it.
I think you are now at a point where you've got enough info to weigh up what you should do.
Posting again and again at this point is not going to help you too much, as you'll get the odd newcomer who hasn't yet offered his 2 cents worth but eventually people loose interest.
What happens with repeated posts like these is
1) You are inquisitive and want to know answers.
2) The quality of the answers you get drops..........WHY?
Cause people like Peter although they're very committed also have other things to do, one should respect their time and also their advice. We are lucky to have people around here that are virtually offereing a selfless service to us, if we do not respect this it will be reflected in the answers we recieve.
I also was like you Briocolo, asking question after question, until DVV put me straight and said pretty much what I've said to you. So please don't take offence, I've spent nearly half an hour trying to help you today, just think before you pose tonnes of questions, a lot of the guys here have jobs, and also household to run, so time is valuable!
My sincere and heartfelt apology if I've over stepped the mark here Briocolo,
but you seem to have had so many replies from so many people and still havn't found a solution.
Thanks
Raja
Hi Briocolo,
Lets break this down a bit,
1) You want a good cdp within your budget.
2) You want to add your own dac if possible using a 12s output.
3) Over 2 diiferent topics on this type of subject you've had a veritable feast of replies.
Now we can see that a couple of things are becoming prevalant here,
1) The name marantz keeps cropping up.
Why? Cause ther machines are fairly readily available, and also they have a reputation for using some of the most renowned transports, which are used in hifi and also serious audiophile products.
2) The cd pro option is just too expensive for your budget.
This safley rules this out for discussion form here on in.
3) You are worried about older machines and the failing of lasers and transports.
Okay so we can't get a guarantee of how long a second hand machine will al last. But here is a rational solution,
a marantz player, especially something like a cd 6000...................
Why? Well 2 reasons,
a) It is no too old as a marantz model, well within your budget, and can be tweaked to perform to a very very high level.
b) The transport is by philips, and as you live in europe should the worst happen, perhaps you could track down a replacment.
The stein CDM12,
Okay with this the price seems good, but there are other cons,
1) you need to put in more work to get a finished machine.
Okay if you are fanatic about building things that's fine.
the pros are that you could get pleasure in doing everything yourself.
But we all should remember 1 very very important thing, we ALL SHOULD BE DOING THIS SO WE CAN LISTEN TO MUSIC, so sometimes the prebuilt player and tweaks path is definatley better.
Just think you can listen to the music of your choice a lot quicker if you don't have to spend hours building things.
As an example just look at Peter's findings
The standalone marantz comes out on top!!!!!!!!
Now as regards to 12s and other transports I don't know Briocolo.
But my friend, you really have to sit down and look at the replies people like Peter have given you. Take in and assimilate the info before replying.
One of the worst things that happens in these types of situations is that newcomers to this diy trip get a hundred ideas at the same time, and want to build everything right now.
To worsen matters there's no shortage of new posts with the latest brilliant sounding tweaks and upgrades.
So what happens, every time you settle on your next project the latest way or components are used with even better claimed results.
In my limited experience Briocolo you have to settle strong mindidly on your decision. Choose a player and go for it.
I think you are now at a point where you've got enough info to weigh up what you should do.
Posting again and again at this point is not going to help you too much, as you'll get the odd newcomer who hasn't yet offered his 2 cents worth but eventually people loose interest.
What happens with repeated posts like these is
1) You are inquisitive and want to know answers.
2) The quality of the answers you get drops..........WHY?
Cause people like Peter although they're very committed also have other things to do, one should respect their time and also their advice. We are lucky to have people around here that are virtually offereing a selfless service to us, if we do not respect this it will be reflected in the answers we recieve.
I also was like you Briocolo, asking question after question, until DVV put me straight and said pretty much what I've said to you. So please don't take offence, I've spent nearly half an hour trying to help you today, just think before you pose tonnes of questions, a lot of the guys here have jobs, and also household to run, so time is valuable!
My sincere and heartfelt apology if I've over stepped the mark here Briocolo,
but you seem to have had so many replies from so many people and still havn't found a solution.
Thanks
Raja
my name is Bricolo, not Briocolo 😉
Thanks for your reply, you confirm what I was also thinking
To answear your post: working tens of hours before having an audible result is not a problem. I' a kind of fanatic about building things
But I still have 2 unansweared questions:
First: how would the cdm12 sound compared to the VAM1201 that is in the new philips and marantz units?
and for the second: some people here (especially Peter) adviced me some old philips or marantz players. Were the older transports better than the new ones? (the older the better?)
Thanks for your reply, you confirm what I was also thinking
To answear your post: working tens of hours before having an audible result is not a problem. I' a kind of fanatic about building things
But I still have 2 unansweared questions:
First: how would the cdm12 sound compared to the VAM1201 that is in the new philips and marantz units?
and for the second: some people here (especially Peter) adviced me some old philips or marantz players. Were the older transports better than the new ones? (the older the better?)
As i understand and ´m not an expert phillips made series of different qualtiy transports. The best (?) transports had metal frame like CDM1 and CDM4d36 --- VA1252 -- VAU1254. (please correct me if wrong). So it would be a very good deal to find an old player with one of the very good older transports. The CDM1 and 4 use an other kind of mechanic than the the VAU125x. You can see it in the CDM4/31 thread. This way to move the head should have the advantage of beeing more silent than the spindle now used. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=145486#post145486
So there are good and not so good older transports out there, and also good and really not good new transports...
peter, what is 500CAD in USD? 250?Peter Daniel said:
that's really cheap for a cd pro2, did you buy the complete package? (the one that costs 500€ on the home optics page)
Bricolo said:
I didn't realise the full package is 500 Euro currently: http://www.daisy-laser.nl/homeoptics/page25.html
I'm not sure if it's wirth it. My cost actually was 340 Euro (shipped) plus another CAD70 in duties and CAD30 for money transfer costs. But I assembled the dispaly board myself and didn't buy all the componenets. It was also more than a year ago and transport was 201 Euro😉
Peter Daniel said:
what parts did you buy from the page you gave? everything except the display, that you assembled yourself?
Peter, do the top loader mechanism give a better sound?
A friend don't stop telling me that top loader are better, because he compared top loaders and front loaders and preferef the top, he wants a cd pro2 and expect me to also buy one 😀
and I don't stop telling him that the difference in sound he heared, was certainly due to the fact that the players he compared were not totally identical except the loader mechanism. (I mean not the same dac, ps...)
he tells that the clamp on a top loader is sooo important. But on a front loader there's also a stamp, but it's placed on the cd by a mechanical arm and not your hand.
what do you think of this?
Here's what I bought.
The clamp that comes with cd pro is not much different that clamp in a front loader. The only advantage is that you can cener it perfectly, because there is an accsess, or change for a better clamp. I'm using Marigo CD mat, and this indeed improves the sound, probably better than a clamp.
The sound of a player depends on many factors and sometimes the best sounding solutions are achieved by pure luck. It for sure takes a lot of experimenting.
The clamp that comes with cd pro is not much different that clamp in a front loader. The only advantage is that you can cener it perfectly, because there is an accsess, or change for a better clamp. I'm using Marigo CD mat, and this indeed improves the sound, probably better than a clamp.
The sound of a player depends on many factors and sometimes the best sounding solutions are achieved by pure luck. It for sure takes a lot of experimenting.
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