When I was working with dome mids, I was in the habit of aligning phase through a crossover but I wasn't using polar measurements as I do now. Therefore I'm inclined to consider breakup and power response. It's also possible that more of the highs illuminate the baffle, but I'd want to see measurements before making that claim.I basically put it down to poor X/O design or maybe incorrect 'phase wiring',
Just a small remark: it would need ~1000 W for 113 dB. And the driver has a small 0.75" voice coil!It sounds good up to it's Xmax:
That actually sounds like 'LIFE ADVISE' and I like it 🙂It's just important to recognize what you value and pursue that, never mind what others say on any systems/details unless you understand why they say that.
Now that you know it, you are not easily swayed by marketing and desires of others, but can pursue what ever is important for you. Now you also see better what advise is good for you and what is irrelevant, and can actually progress toward your goal. All you need is a goal, your goal.
Many years ago I listened to an ATC 3way touted as a "studio monitor". It used the 'famous & expensive' large soft dome midrange driver.
Can anyone elaborate on why I didn't like the sound of the midrange ???
Here is an example of a 3" ATC in a speaker sounding very bad. The reason was a bad crossover and not a bad driver. There are similar examples if you search. It seems to be fairly common for inexperienced DIYers and/or kit builders to opt for extremely expensive drivers with cheap primitive crossovers (or defective ones in the example) and cheap primitive cabinets.
This surprises me as well. I did use a 2.5" full range as a mid filler and it works surprisingly well.
I almost feel like most 3" and smaller full range drivers are really just mid ranges. They just market them as full range. When you look at smaller full range driver's measurements, you'll see most of its meat is in the mid range.
They market them as full range because they are full range drivers and not midrange drivers. As was mentioned by several people earlier in the thread full range drivers cannot play loud and cleanly enough to function as a midrange driver in a conventional 3 way (e.g. 2 x 8", 5" mid, 1" tweeter) plus their sensitivity is usually too low to work well with a passive crossover. Generally full range drivers need to be in arrays if they are to deliver clean high fidelity sound in the home. A filler driver could work but a filler driver is usually closer to a tweeter than a midrange driver.
For me, a real midrange driver would be something like this:
Hardly usable below 450 Hz, but then equipped with enormously high efficiency and thanks to the 1.5 inch voice coil also electically quite resilient. It could theoretically reach almost 115 dB/1m.
However, the impedance curve doesn't look so nice, so we'll have to see what acoustical effects that has.
Hardly usable below 450 Hz, but then equipped with enormously high efficiency and thanks to the 1.5 inch voice coil also electically quite resilient. It could theoretically reach almost 115 dB/1m.
However, the impedance curve doesn't look so nice, so we'll have to see what acoustical effects that has.
However, the impedance curve doesn't look so nice, so we'll have to see what acoustical effects that has.
Resonances of that size will be audible. The task for those interested in high fidelity reproduction tends to be avoiding high efficiency resonating drivers and low efficiency drivers that cannot cleanly reproduce transients (e.g. fullrange or midwoofers) and look for drivers with inaudible resonances (e.g. stiff or well damped cones depending on design approach) with sufficient clean SPL (e.g. around 3-5" cone, 90+ dB efficiency and 100+ W power handling with some wriggle room). Assumes the woofer and tweeter are adequately sized to cleanly reproduce standard levels at 3-4 m in a room. If not (e.g. small desktop speaker or limited to less than standard SPLs) then other drivers may be suitable.
And that is what we have beautiful old relics like this for.it would need ~1000 W for 113 dB. And the driver has a small 0.75" voice coil!
12" midrange driver, smooth resonance free output , low distortion and high efficiency.
11kg, limited xmax, high motor strength, coated damped surround, and a fairly stiff suspension.
This one is a bit too extreme' in terms of being designed exclusively for midrange. Hard to find a natural use for it really, not gonna deny that.

Or it's less refined 'siblings' like the JBL 2020H, although with a wider useable range and more advanced motor structure.
Pretty much the opposite of a 3" fullrange or 2-3" dome as long as were talking of direct radiators.
Different tools for different tasks.🙂
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This is about exactly what I saw when I was simulating using them. Especially for the smaller ones. For the 3" and smaller it would require using to to match a pair of woofers. Even then, they barely just cut itThey market them as full range because they are full range drivers and not midrange drivers. As was mentioned by several people earlier in the thread full range drivers cannot play loud and cleanly enough to function as a midrange driver in a conventional 3 way (e.g. 2 x 8", 5" mid, 1" tweeter) plus their sensitivity is usually too low to work well with a passive crossover. Generally full range drivers need to be in arrays if they are to deliver clean high fidelity sound in the home. A filler driver could work but a filler driver is usually closer to a tweeter than a midrange driver.
Oops, forgot that the 3.5" Tymphany TC9FD-18-08's excursion wouldn't be it's limiting factor at 400 Hz.Just a small remark: it would need ~1000 W for 113 dB. And the driver has a small 0.75" voice coil!
Peaks of ~106dB would be more in the ballpark at 400Hz.
That said, horn loaded, the TC9FD-18-08 reached well over 120dBA slow/one meter, and had less IMD than the best 3" voice coil compression drivers I've tested.
Pano,Hurray! I know you've been working hard on this big test. There is a lot to digest here.
Will take some time to go thru it all.
EDIT: At first listen to the dual sines, the B&C DE82TN is the only one that sounds clean at all.
As it turns out, the dual sine waves really reveal something I failed to catch in the initial 2012 tests, the upper intermodulation distortion (the addition of two fundamental frequencies, 523 + 932 creating a third frequency of 1455, etc.) had been mistaken for ordinary order upper harmonics, resulting in (consistently) under reporting distortion %...
Surprising how clean it sounded until a second before the voice coil failed 😉
Art
I'm late and this party is already 4 pages long, so please forgive me if I am redundant, but I may have answered your original question in this blog post. The answer AFAIK is distortion and dispersion. Sadly the former is very rarely available from manufacturers.
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