1. not enough bass (That is by design, I just haven't done the subs yet 🙄)
2. they sound really bad when playing white stripes Elephant... I'm not sure though if this is the speakers or the source, the same recording played from an ipod through the same amp/speakers is no where near as bad....
3. (before I revised the crossover) sounded bad on anything with dense music spectrum (girl and guitar speakers).... changing to 4th order crossover fixed that.
Tony.
2. they sound really bad when playing white stripes Elephant... I'm not sure though if this is the speakers or the source, the same recording played from an ipod through the same amp/speakers is no where near as bad....
3. (before I revised the crossover) sounded bad on anything with dense music spectrum (girl and guitar speakers).... changing to 4th order crossover fixed that.
Tony.
For a small room I will prefer 2-way with as big as possible woofer, or 3-way with small dome midrange. The extra low frequency that can be gained with adding another subwoofer is I believe marginal considering its negative impact to the coherency of overall sound, and cost. Looking forward to hearing your finding and preference with your future sub project.
Interesting to hear that steeper filter fixes issues 😀
To avoid issues, we can pick paper coned woofer. Find a smooth one that doesn't require a notch filter and complex crossover filter. Second order electrical filter at most. The consequence is we cannot gain what is not there with paper cone: extreme transparency.
To gain the extreme transparency, we can pick a woofer with a rigid and low mass cone material. Then be prepared to challenge your crossover (and listening) skill.
Paper cone with 4th order electrical?
What I dont like about my DIY MTM towers??
Vocals are in-accurate & muddy
Drum Attacks dont slap me in the chest like they should
All others outright volume, dynamics, imaging et. al. are fine
____________________________________________________Rick.............
Vocals are in-accurate & muddy
Drum Attacks dont slap me in the chest like they should
All others outright volume, dynamics, imaging et. al. are fine
____________________________________________________Rick.............
So what made you decide that the design was completely done? 😱
One easy method: voice it side by side with a proven design (or may be a commercial speaker). Then based on cost, compare both designs (technically and/or subjectively) and decide how much better the new design should be.
Correct, that's the reason I went with the Alcone AC10HE woofers, they sound very transparent and detailed, but a third order electrical was needed to suppress the breakup.
So what do people think about sealed vs. ported, and the question of time alignment in issues like this? Ported speakers and non-time aligned presumably, on paper, will smear a transient over time. Is this a practical problem, or just a theoretical red herring?
You are overthinking things.
The only thing my ribbons are lacking is ears young enough to hear them.
My hearing drops like a stone between above 18kHz by now (I'm 48).
Covering a fifth of an octave is really not enough to justify their existence especially since the Tannoys are quite capable of doing that without the ribbons.
Amazing. You should hope that no one ever installs 'The Mosquito' near you.
The Mosquito - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oops, I didn't notice that you use it as a "helper tweeter". In many occasions, I can only hear degradation by using a helper tweeter.
Possible advantage of the helper tweeter: music above and below 15kHz will be reproduced with flatter response.
Disadvantage: there will be out of phase overlap below and above 15kHz that will ruin the high end transparency.
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I have listened with just one channel (I only had one channel of the active crossover on protoboard, using old 3way cabinet for the woofers) , and there was a definite improvement. It cleaned up the midrange quite a lot, even though I didn't think that there was anything wrong with it to start with. Don't hold your breath for reports though. It is very slow coming along 😉
having a read of this post might enlighten you 🙂 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...treble-but-without-sibilance.html#post2604196
I know people don't seem to like 4th order crossovers, mine (4th order bessel acoustic) seems to have worked out just fine 😀
Tony.
The xovers I use are continuously phase-adjustable through 180deg and you can invert them.
Adjustement is dead easy: play a sine wave at the xover frequency, adjust for minimum audible output and invert.
PS: I like 4th order xovers, I use 24dB L-R electrical but most of the drivers linear range overlaps by at least 2 octaves so I assume in my case the difference between electrical and acoustical to be minimal.
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Only experience may enlighten me. As for reading, of course I have read a lot, including threads in this forum.
You can read my posts and read where I stand regarding sibilance, active crossover, etc. My opinions may sound unique and uneducated but they are all result of experience, not reading. And I like to mention what has never been mentioned by others. Other similar opinions, I keep it for my own self 😀
ADD:
I think you are the one who posted about discrete active crossover using gyrators? It has never been completed as far as I remember. I have tried it too but gyrators are not sufficient for most situations.
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So you use active filter.
I'm not sure if you are talking active or passive here. If active, of course, even steeper than 4th order is fine. My speaker discussed here is also based on acoustical LR4, passive of course. Electrically, it is non-standard alignment. I even incorporate new ideas in the design of the crossover, that has never been implemented anywhere else.
Yes I read that post by Lynn and it prompted me to redesign my crossover. I changed from 2nd order bessel accoustic at 2.8Khz to 4th order bessel accoustic at 2.8Khz. The difference was not subtle, so I gained the experience after reading that particular post 😉 To be fair the phase tracking in the 4th order was far superior, so that also would have helped, but I think that Lynn's comments had a lot to do with my problem.
Yes the synergy. I have only tried one channel with the breadboarded circuit. I was having stability problems with the low pass circuit (it was oscillating) I got that mostly under control and listened in mono for a while. The result was promising. I've been trying to get back to it, but long hours at work, and other priorities on weekends have been leaving me too tired to do proper diying, and it has not progressed futher.
Tony.
I just listened to The White Stripes Elephant and it sounds very good on my speakers. Really good bass on seven nation army 🙂
The acoustical slopes I used in my speakers are 4th order, why ?
Because I wanted that each driver played only in its region with the least distortion and that the cone breakups are enough suppressed. No chance for IM distortion 🙂
And yes you can definitely hear that, when pushed loud they still sound good.
Also with 4th order I got very good phase tracking between the drivers, but that depends on the order/components of the electrical crossover and the natural slopes of the drivers.
I just read Lynn Olsen Closing Thoughts On Speaker Design and it resembles with my design philosophy. Nice 🙂
The acoustical slopes I used in my speakers are 4th order, why ?
Because I wanted that each driver played only in its region with the least distortion and that the cone breakups are enough suppressed. No chance for IM distortion 🙂
And yes you can definitely hear that, when pushed loud they still sound good.
Also with 4th order I got very good phase tracking between the drivers, but that depends on the order/components of the electrical crossover and the natural slopes of the drivers.
I just read Lynn Olsen Closing Thoughts On Speaker Design and it resembles with my design philosophy. Nice 🙂
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That's the problem with "Perfect" speakers, they'll reveal every good/bad thing the person who recorded it, did. 😱
Thanks danny_66 I have my suspicions it is my source that is the problem. My preamp is broken and I use the on board sound of my HT pc at the moment. (I think that is why the ipod sounded so different).
The bass is fine (I agree about 7 nation army!) but I get a mess of very nasty high frequency hash in the playback. It sounds very unbalanced and unpleasent. It is possible I guess that I got a bad CD as well.
Tony.
The bass is fine (I agree about 7 nation army!) but I get a mess of very nasty high frequency hash in the playback. It sounds very unbalanced and unpleasent. It is possible I guess that I got a bad CD as well.
Tony.
But then again I've never heard a bad recording sounding better on bad speakers than on good ones.
In fact the better my speakers got the fewer 'bad' recordings I seemed to have.
But "bad" and "better" are very subjective terms. I made a video recording of a live band at a festival using a tablet PC which sounds fine on the in-built speakers, or a laptop, or a TV. But play them on good speakers, and it is apparent that there is very low frequency 'leakage' from an adjacent stage that renders the quiet moments unlistenable - just as it was on the day. In other words, "bad" speakers, in this case have actually improved the recording in at least one regard.
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