Dear Jan
can I know your audio system brand and model number or do you use your own design.
just out of curious sir.
can I know your audio system brand and model number or do you use your own design.
just out of curious sir.
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I take a different approach. There may be recordings that can be held in the same esteem as the Mona Lisa, but there are many many more recording artists who's skills and choices are not. I'm OK if the play-back system allows for some personalized adjustments to the sound in such cases.
Additionally, a bit of warmth (or other artifacts) from an amplifier may not be needed to adjust the recording, but it may help tame an aggressive listening room - a built-in tone control of sorts.
Nevertheless, like you, I prefer 'clean' sounding amplifiers for the most part.
On the other hand is the real life fact that famous painting standing protected in some museum lighted for viewers with some artificial light source which have not 100% same light spectrum as natural sunlight , so by changing sort of artificial light source we can change the subtle color appearance of that old painting , to look warmer or cooler .🙂
I don't think you can 'tame a listening room' by adding some harmonics to the sound.
A low damping factor could, as it brings more of the speaker influence to the result but then again, you have different results with different speakers.
Jan
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I said "warmth (or other artifacts)" which doesn't limit the approach to manipulating the harmonics. Sometimes, a bit of treble roll-off (common with old tube amplifiers) is what you need. Admittedly, we're getting off-topic now.
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OK, I was still in the context of the discussion with Hugh.
I did have an 'unfriendly' room (too long decay in the 300-3000 Hz band) and put up some absorbers for that feq range that look like large paintings.
Works like a charm, for a total of less than 1k. Less than a dozen of boutique caps ;-)
Jan
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You could have spent considerably more if you had used the Mona Lisa 😀
Actually, I do wonder if a bit of harmonic distortion, especially IMD, could soften up a harsh room - subjectively at least.
Actually, I do wonder if a bit of harmonic distortion, especially IMD, could soften up a harsh room - subjectively at least.
I don't know but it seems improbable to me. It's is like using an instrument with a different 'character'. Would one type of guitar sound better than another because of the room?
Jan
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I don't know I can explain my hunch on this one, but doesn't more IMD tend to make an amplifier sound warmer, a sound with less 'bite' and a harsh room tends to do the opposite for me - it increases the 'bite' factor.
I don't know for sure either, but the two mechanisms and phenomena are completely different.
A harsh room I understand as a room with lots of reflections and relatively long decay. That means that the original signal lingers for some time and/or echoes.
IMD is actually adding frequencies not in the original signal and does not cause echoes and reflections, so I don't see how they can even be remotely be perceived as compensating for each other in some way.
Jan
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I sometimes make a link, rightly or wrongly, between harshness and the nature of treble. A room with lots of reflections tends to result in more treble for the listener than a room with more soft surfaces. It's not so much about ehoes and timing and phase but that we tend to prefer a gentle roll-off in treble in our listening environments. I associate warm sound with a more mellow sound, with more softness in the treble for example.
Hi Hugh,
what is the level of the H2,H3,H4 wich are you talking about?
Lets say at 5Vrms output of the power amp.
Or we can make reference to the SPL, may be that is more accurate approach.
Where is limit of the H2 h3 H4 wich will be still good allrounder amp?
With allrounder amp I mean that rock music still sound good, not softened.
Chears
Can I throw another spanner in the cogs, so to speak?
Just posted this article, a delightful blast from the past!
How much insight we once had, and lost.
Jan
Just posted this article, a delightful blast from the past!
How much insight we once had, and lost.
Jan
But how can more H2, H3, H4 give the impression of 'softness', gentle rolled-off treble?
Apologies, I am not trying to be facetious, but I genuinely don't see the connection. But I may miss something of course.
Jan
When I compared one amplifier with highly elevated H2,H3,H4 with one low THD amp, I finished with modification of the tweeter atenuation.
Low thd ones needed linear treble and amplifier with elevated h2 h3 h4 needed
rised up treble by 2-3 dB, to both sound acepptable.
Both amplifier are more then 100kHz.
So I concluded something similar,......
I can speculate what cousing that effects,....
I think it is impossible to make amplifier wich has elevated low order harmonic and not to have high IMD.
Simply, on the end we have cloged spectrum, does the cloged spectrum sounding softened? Thats the question..
These discussions have gone for years...
I don't lose any sleep anymore over any of it. For a long time I was building gear for a few studios in town. My first question was always, "What do you want it to sound like?"
It's common for a studio to have 20 mic pre's and each sounds different.
I don't lose any sleep anymore over any of it. For a long time I was building gear for a few studios in town. My first question was always, "What do you want it to sound like?"
It's common for a studio to have 20 mic pre's and each sounds different.
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I don't think he is - what I read is that when you have additional harmonics you have to increase the treble or else the treble sounds too soft. I'm saying in a harsh room you want a softer treble and such a thing maybe created with the additional IMD products. Well, it's a bit of a stretch I realize but I don't have much data to draw on.