Well yes. The media makes a circus out of a lot of scientific topics and discoveries. Example quantum physics can validate any kind of woo you like. And the latest UFO sensation, which is the original topic of this thread, is likely 99% BS courtesy of none other than Uncle Sam.
What I do wonder about is actual scientific inquiries related to alleged extraterrestrial life. Scientists consider the hypothesis of panspermia to be worthy of serious consideration as the source of life on earth. To back up the hypothesis is the fact that amino acids have been found in space debris. How it got there is the mystery. This begs the question whether abiogenesis happened here on earth, some unknown location in the universe, or whether it even happened more than once. We know that all life on earth is descended from a common ancestor; we don't know if all life in the universe (if there is life outside of Earth) descended from a common ancestor.
That's about as far as I can go down that rabbit hole. I have questions, not answers. I don't know.
Agreed.
However, a lot of happy coincidences brought us where we are today. Cyanobacteria evolved photosynthesis which forever changed the planet, especially its atmosphere. Without photosynthesis, there never would have been available oxygen; no oxygen metabolizing lifeforms (like us) would ever have emerged. Cambrian explosion, Chixulub impact, and more' were stepping stones to our existence.
My point is that evolution is inextricably linked to geolory and natural history. Even on this planet there are amazing creatures that occupy the harshest of habitats. Who knows what kind of lifeform, if any, would exist on another planet in another galaxy.
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Couldn't that just suggest abiogenesis may be baked into the structure of the universe?
Chemical reactions happen for a reason. Probably the most common reason is that the reaction is exothermic. Exothermic reactions happen spontaneously (NOT randomly) and fairly reliably. We see it all the time in nature and of course in industry too.
I think it's another one of those happy coincidences. It's no different than a rock rolling down a hill. High energy state to low energy state will happen with a fair degree of predictability. It's everyday stuff that is just not remarkable.
Did they now? If they really did I suppose there was something. A bird? An aeroplane?
80 years old sh*t.....give it up... wait for the real stuff instead - be sure they are coming and when they do - there will be no argument about it.
It’s perfectly acceptable to not say anything at all, even in instances where you have nothing to say.
There’s a very strong argument to be made that it’s impossible to divorce the UFO phenomenon (whatever it may be) from the historically documented military/government interest in the phenomenon. The paper trail of documentation and telemetric data begins and ends with the military. It’s pretty clear there has been an 80 year long perception management campaign regarding UFO so I find it rather ahistorical when the topic is dismissed as mass hysteria. It’s simply far more complicated than that.
Bmfph.... see, I restrained myself.
It was a short mishap....
Lets say they where here... OK, so they didn't want to talk. Just probe our exhaust systems.
Why is it so important to dig in it? What are you gonna do about it?
If you where to know they where indeed here 80 years ago - whats your next move? How will it change your life?
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It was a short mishap....
Lets say they where here... OK, so they didn't want to talk. Just probe our exhaust systems.
Why is it so important to dig in it? What are you gonna do about it?
If you where to know they where indeed here 80 years ago - whats your next move? How will it change your life?
//
Just the frequent suggestion in general that we’re not responding or contacting because our means are so far below technologically. Rather foolish since we still recognize earlier forms so how could ‘they’ not immediately recognize communication? Unless of course ‘they’ are so different they could not possibly. Perhaps their ultra powerful telescopes utilizing tech we have no idea about might scope out our smoke signals…you never really know, right?
Curiosity killed the cat after all. Books are bad, smoke work drink eat serve.Bmfph.... see, I restrained myself.
It was a short mishap....
Lets say they where here... OK, so they didn't want to talk. Just probe our exhaust systems.
Why is it so important to dig in it? What are you gonna do about it?
If you where to know they where indeed here 80 years ago - whats your next move? How will it change your life?
//
Some years ago i've seen documentary where researchers were interested in the way those amino acids traveled into space and landed on our little rock.
They did not understood how the amino acid wasn't destroyed by atmosphere entry and if landing on our ground the schock didn't modifyed them.
After reproducing pressure and temp the amino acid was exposed to, they discovered that in fact this conditions accelerated the emerging of the 'primal soup'.
Spooky.
From this i elaborated a theory: imagine a bouncing ball covered with 'elementary bricks' to start organic life launched in a room at high velocity. Each time the ball hit a wall some tiny parts of it the 'bricks' will stay on surface touched. If you let enough time ( and hexogen catastrophic events don't kill the whole process) you'll see life appear and evolve.
If there is some nursery of 'bouncing balls' somewhere spraying the whole universe continously then it would offer opportunity to conquest the whole universe with life.
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About organic life, the one we know of are all carbon based. I'm still wondering if some silicium based ones could exist too... on earth.
After all, we don't know more than maybe 30% of our own planet... 70% being still mostly out of reach for research ( to deep into ocean and supposedly 'sterile' space- which is imho was probably very wrong assumptions 50 years ago but might sadly be true this days).
Deep below sea level conditions are VERY differents from the one we know of on surface: no light ( past the 'midnight zone'), extremely high pressure, very large temperature differences/ contrast)... maybe on one of those thermal springs a whole different path was taken by life?
Too bad we will probably manage to kill those ecosystem (one way or another) before studying them.
That said maybe an astounding as Tardigrade like lifeform (water bears) will resist though?
Or worst we will discover Stanley Sheff was precient: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobster_Man_from_Mars
😱🤣
Ps: probably one of the worst ever produced movie...
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Bmfph.... see, I restrained myself.
It was a short mishap....
Lets say they where here... OK, so they didn't want to talk. Just probe our exhaust systems.
Why is it so important to dig in it? What are you gonna do about it?
If you where to know they where indeed here 80 years ago - whats your next move? How will it change your life?
//
I’m not that credulous regarding the ET hypothesis and the whole UFO subculture that has spiraled out of it (i.e. alien abduction, crash retrievals). I am familiar with the crash retrieval mythology though.
There’s a paper trail starting about 80 years ago that betrays a credulousness on behalf of the US Navy and then the Air Force about UFOs being not just real in a nuts & bolts sense, but otherworldly as well. So this fascination was not purely a hysteria on behalf of an unwitting public. Military officials took it very seriously.
According to records, early encounters have UFOs as being glowing Orbs (foo fighters), other later encounters as “green fireballs” or metallic craft. “Flying saucers” was primarily a public phenomenon, along with Adamski and the saucer cults.
It’s just history. Why read history, is that what you’re asking?
Life around the thermal vents is quite strange. Animals thrive in temperatures and chemical exposures (sulfuric acid) that would quickly kill what most of us would consider typical life forms.
The whole history of life on earth is one of constand adaptation and change.
Not only do those little fellers look like aliens, they are also time travellers!
Attachments
Pleistocene bacteria are alive on Earth today!
Carnobacterium pleistocenium has remained encased in ice for 32,000 years. These frozen bacteria begin to swim as soon as the ice is thawed.
The existence of extremophiles like this is of great significance to Astrobiology. It is suggested that cryopanspermia may have played an important role in the origin of life on Earth and the distribution of life throughout the universe.
Carnobacterium pleistocenium has remained encased in ice for 32,000 years. These frozen bacteria begin to swim as soon as the ice is thawed.
The existence of extremophiles like this is of great significance to Astrobiology. It is suggested that cryopanspermia may have played an important role in the origin of life on Earth and the distribution of life throughout the universe.
I read that scientists found mosquito eggs estimated to be 10-12K years old in Egypt. They put them in water and they hatched. I hope none of them escaped!
One of the concerns with the ice melting is that it is releasing microbes into the air. This could prove disastrous. We could be exposed to pathogens our species hasn't been exposed to in tens of thousands of years. Think smallpox and the First People of the Americas.
One of the concerns with the ice melting is that it is releasing microbes into the air. This could prove disastrous. We could be exposed to pathogens our species hasn't been exposed to in tens of thousands of years. Think smallpox and the First People of the Americas.
Tardigrades looks like 'guild pilot's' into D. Lynch's 'Dune'.
Taking 'spice' open new horizons:
From wikipedia page they resisted to radiation, air depravation, starvation, outer space exposure and are able to dehydrate themself in case they should wait for better condition to emerge... and they survived quantum entanglement. Wtf!?
They are already there i tell ya! 😱 🤣
Taking 'spice' open new horizons:
From wikipedia page they resisted to radiation, air depravation, starvation, outer space exposure and are able to dehydrate themself in case they should wait for better condition to emerge... and they survived quantum entanglement. Wtf!?
They are already there i tell ya! 😱 🤣
One way to think about this is to understand that you need a catalyst to enable life to start and then develop. On the Earth is was originally methane but that later transitioned to oxygen because of photosynthesis. But that process took 2 billion yRS. Oxygen reacts with just about anything. So when organisms evolved to produce oxygen as a byproduct, the oxygen was imediately sequestered by other materials in the Earth’s crust. The banded iron deposits in various locations around the globe are but one example. Only after oxygen could no longer combine freely with other elements in the atmosphere and crust, do you see atmospheric oxygen begin to rise, and about 500 million yrs after this, the Cambrian explosion c 550 MYA to 480 MYA. Oxygen is highly reactive, so it was like supercharging the evolutionary process Compared to the original methane powered life forms prior to this.
Now, on some distant planet, it could be that the role of oxygen on Earth is replaced by some other highly reactive elemen like potassium or lithium. But, as happened on Earth, a process would have to be gone through in which the said element interacts with other material to bind it up, before it can be free to accumulate in the atmosphere or oceans or whatever life supporting medium exists on that planet. These kinds of processes always take billions of years and only after that can multicellular life emerge.
Agreed Bonsai. You've done your homework.
You are probably correct that abiogenesis was a catalytic reaction. Also spot on about oxygen and its likely substitutes on other planets. Such nuance is lost on the vast majority of people.
Novel pathogens being released into the atmosphere is a lot scarier to me than any alien life.
You are probably correct that abiogenesis was a catalytic reaction. Also spot on about oxygen and its likely substitutes on other planets. Such nuance is lost on the vast majority of people.
Novel pathogens being released into the atmosphere is a lot scarier to me than any alien life.
We've already lost that fight because:
#1 there is no global warming so no melting
#2 we're not responsible for warming so we're not going to change
#3 we have our "freedoms" so even if there are microbes, it's a lamestream media hoax so we don't care