"We're irredeemable, selfish, malicious agents screwing up everything on this planet."
"Let's edit our genetic code!"
That will work out.
I agree, that our evolutionary biology controls the inclinations and impulses of our behavior. Particularly corrosive to a modern civilization, are those behaviors which, no doubt, were conducive to the survival of a tribe. Such as, racism, and other types of fascism in general. I imagine, that it must have helped in quickly assessing whether an unfamiliar individual presented a danger to the the tribe or not, by their observable characteristics. Their physical features, the way they dress, the way they speak, etc. Snap decisions on, who is one of 'us', and who is not, could affect the physical safety of the entire tribe. Other characteristics of strangers, which could ultimately prove subversive to the integrity of the tribe, are their particular religious practices. This may be why humans are so easily roused to do violence to their neighbor just because they think or act differently. Or, make war simply because tribal elders (today's political leaders) declare that war is necessary. Tribalism must have benefited from such behaviors, and so, that's probably why it became an instinct seemly programmed in to our DNA. Unfortunately, that behavior, which was beneficial in a tribal society, is highly destructive to a modern pluralistic one.
It seems to me, that the rational, 'rule-of-law', replacing the emotional, rule of our inclinations and impulses, is what makes advanced human civilization possible. The law (is supposed to) replace our presumably biologically programmed disposition toward fascist behavior. When respect for the rightness of the law breaks down, however, history and current events show that a modern society can quickly revert to the tribal attitudes and behaviors which seem to be always present just beneath the surface of civility. Since biologically based behavioral evolution among humans seems to advance very slowly, if at all, it's the adoption of and faith in the anti-tribal, 'rule-of-law' which seems to have primarily carried humanity (well, large numbers of it, at least) out out total barbarism and in to enlightened civilization. I suggest that the proof of that is something which Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once observed. I paraphrase; "The arc of history bends toward justice." This is undeniably true, when seen over long stretches of time. However, when viewed in much shorter segments of time, such as within one's own lifetime, the bending arc is composed of piecewise ratcheting movements of two-steps forward, followed by one step backwards, followed by two-steps forward again. Plus, the occasional terrifying leap of three or four backwards steps, towards our destructive fascist tribal inclinations and impulses.
The Italian Fascists said fascism "should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.” Both States and Corporations are evolutionarily very recent phenomena making fascism in tribal societies highly questionable. That term has been abused beyond meaning these days, itself an interesting development.
The lust for power across all ages is arguably the universal constant. along with their willingness to view other members of their own species as consumables.
I'm aware that the original meaning of fascism has to do with the wealthy controlling government via their Corporations. The atrocities of the Nazi's, however, long ago changed that original meaning to include governmental and/or societal ethnic and religious alienation, and persecution culminating in the murder of those who constitute a deviation from some defined societal supposed norm. This includes their sexual orientation and other differences. I speculated how such behavior could have an evolutionary foundation in tribalism. The origin of the term, fascism is beside the point.
Last edited:
We may be skirting a little too close to the prohibition on political debate but that expansion captures Cambodia, Rwanda and Kosovo. It's meaningless. A very good read on why definitions matter is Thomas Frank's far left historical examination of the corruption of the word 'populism' in "The People, No: A Brief History of Anti-Populism".
Conditions change fast, we change slow. Society is radically different now than it was 10,000 years ago, but we are not.
Mother nature will "edit our code" or not. But the fact of the matter is that there's different types of people in the mix including psychopaths, narcissists, etc along with the rest of us and there's probably a reason nature let such an uneasy mix slip through. But diversity is the key to survival of a species during periods of rapid change.
Left handed people are an interesting example of physical and cognitive diversity. About 20-30% of left handed people are "left brained" too. I fall in that category; my brain is laid out as a mirror image of the vast majority of people. I am a "true leftie"; opposite in every way. Is that an evolutionary advantage? Well, I am an incorrigible knothead; but I am also highly mathematical, verbal, and inclined to very abstract thought. I grasp things like Newtonian physics and relativity intuitively. I was born to be an engineer. People like me can make significant contributions to society given half a chance.
That's how evolution works. It's never perfect, sometimes ugly, but its only "purpose" is survival of species.
You’re being needlessly argumentative about this. I didn’t indicate that it only applied to the Nazis. Of course, unfortunately, there are a number of tragic examples around the world. That fact serves to help illustrate that it seems to be a widely spread aspect of human behavior, which may have evolutionary origins in the survival behaviors needed to support tribalism.
Unless of course you're a narcissistic psycopath.
Enter the dilemma the world is in now.
You don't happen to be responsible for some of that, do you??
just askin.
Why would you assume that?????Unless of course you're a narcissistic psycopath.
Enter the dilemma the world is in now.
You don't happen to be responsible for some of that, do you??
just askin.
Talk about tribal....jezus....
Be careful, people get sued for libel and defamation.
And btw, most of the idiots responsible for the idiocy in the world are right-handed so...
Nah, the distinction is critical but well beyond the scope of this forum so agree to disagree. For those interested core Italian Fascist literature is available, short, concise and no surprise really cheap or free.
Regarding tribal behaviour I'm also reading an anthropologist who spent years with New Guinea tribes and they were more status, honour and vengeance driven. In his view projecting our world view on to tribal cultures is nearly always incorrect. Circling back to the topic, perhaps excluding cargo cults.
Unless of course you're a narcissistic psycopath.
Enter the dilemma the world is in now.
You don't happen to be responsible for some of that, do you??
just askin.
The thing is, narcissists and psychopaths can make contributions too. A typical corporate boardroom has a higher than average proportion of them. Washington obviously is chock full of both. So are prisons.
I fail to see how anything I have done has contributed to the chaos of the world. I don't know what makes you think that. I've never been elected to office, never been in the boardroom. I worked, payed my bills, cut my grass.
And not all narcissists/psychopaths are evil dictators that wear too much orange makeup. Check this out. Those eyes are scary.
I disagree. There is enough 'anarchist' traditional society ( read non vertically organised society and without 'symbolic violence' ( cops) ) which existed in history (and some lasted long period of time) to question the 'universality' of the thing.
The willingness to use others as consumables comes mainly from the XIXth/XXth century. The 20th as the age of 'utopia' as been probably the worst.
Fast Eddie D,
There is one of the big issue that plague our society: they favour psychopathic/sociopathic behavior for our leaders ( political/economical).
'Traditional' organised society had process to keep them under 'control'. Once the human groups started to be 'to big' there was no way this process kept them out of leadership, then it asked them at this place as they help favoring profit.
It's all a question of group size.
There is one of the big issue that plague our society: they favour psychopathic/sociopathic behavior for our leaders ( political/economical).
'Traditional' organised society had process to keep them under 'control'. Once the human groups started to be 'to big' there was no way this process kept them out of leadership, then it asked them at this place as they help favoring profit.
It's all a question of group size.
The point I think that people missed is that narcissists/psychopaths/sociopaths are very often both able and willing to assume leadership roles. The rest of us often don't see ourselves as being capable of assuming leadership roles; the narc/psycho sees themselves as both capable and deserving of such a role in society. I'm sure we can all think of many examples of such glaring narcissism in the political arena.
THAT is why they are never bred out of the population. They serve an important role!
THAT is why they are never bred out of the population. They serve an important role!
Whew!
...but I was "just askin"
What might make you think I thought that?
Sometimes a man 'can't' know his limitations, no?