Shine a beam of light into otherwise dark room; shadows and high contrast make room unappealing. Same is true for sound
The sound is supposed to make the room appealing? I thought a stereo signal prepared in a studio was the thing we were concerned with, i.e. the beam of light in your simile.
There can be if we rely on the corner indiscriminately, but why would we do that any more than build a freestanding baffle without considering it's shape. In fairness, I spent countless hours over the past few years as any of us might so I'm not saying it is an automatic panacea, but it works. I'm already starting from scratch as I'm sure I can make my speaker much smaller, and I want to improve the lower ranges in the process. But I'm going to keep the corner, for what it's worth. Not because of the time invested but because I now appreciate its benefits and qualities.Sorry Wayne, but in practical situations there will be early reflections (and diffractions) in mid-high frequencies because the mid and tweeter are not at the apex .
Where I like the corners is in activating the room in the lower ranges, and in reducing the presence and/or significance of discrete modes in the transitional region. Shoving the tweeter in there was just a necessary bother but it isn't really.
People with our thoughts on audio are going to go one of three ways... Embrace reflections (omni etc), minimise their impact (corner) or leave them and fix them in implementation. They all have an element of 'correctness', but have a somewhat different end result. None of these is necessarily 'wrong' though as a room is what a room is.
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A source of light within a trihedral corner of a rectangular prism will illuminate it using the narrowest beam compared to other locations, and will do so with the smallest contrast range for the given beam compared to locating it further into the room.Shine a beam of light into otherwise dark room; shadows and high contrast make room unappealing.
The lowest contrast range for a point source may be omnidirectional in the middle of the room, however the general intensity of wall illumination will be greater.
Also not to forget that H and V don't have to be the same.
I must say that I really like the idea of corner horn, well done! Wayne just got a little carried away with his praise of the concept...
In-wall (soffit mounted) speakers are a step to that direction. In real world again, there is only small number of rooms at homes that allow corner horn or soffit mounting to be done well. If I had an empty large and symmetric room to be made as a home theater or dedicated listening room without any compromises, I surely would do corner horns for front mains! Then I would add a pair of excellent free-standing dipoles for some 2-channel listening too.
Mssquared have lots of info about audio/acoustic design at their web pages, this link is about loudspeaker directivity. The company is focusing to pro audio, large halls and conference rooms. Check their "All over the map" page! Loudspeaker Facts - Directivity as a Design Issue
In-wall (soffit mounted) speakers are a step to that direction. In real world again, there is only small number of rooms at homes that allow corner horn or soffit mounting to be done well. If I had an empty large and symmetric room to be made as a home theater or dedicated listening room without any compromises, I surely would do corner horns for front mains! Then I would add a pair of excellent free-standing dipoles for some 2-channel listening too.
Mssquared have lots of info about audio/acoustic design at their web pages, this link is about loudspeaker directivity. The company is focusing to pro audio, large halls and conference rooms. Check their "All over the map" page! Loudspeaker Facts - Directivity as a Design Issue
Shine a beam of light into otherwise dark room; shadows and high contrast make room unappealing. Same is true for sound
And I always thought shadows and high contrast is what makes a room appealing in the first place 🙂
Quite honestly I don't see how this analogy would apply to stereo reproduction. Room effects are minimized during sound creation so why add them later on?
Furthermore, what happens when you listen to your speaker at 2-3m which is a more realistic listening situation?
I've toyed extensively with the idea of mounting the driver centres behind the wall corner in the wall cavity. The potential space savings are immense, but I'm not yet convinced that it is entirely necessary with the treble as I'd rather have other controls here, although it could be done. I'm also not convinced of benefits to the lower midrange where these offsets are acoustically small anyway.
I used to soffit mount, and the treble was fine. I was using absorption around the direct radiators and while this wasn't bad, it probably suffered from it being more of an after thought than an intentional design.
I was planning to incorporate the DRs into the corner using a parabolic 'reverse baffle' before I changed toward corner design.
I used to soffit mount, and the treble was fine. I was using absorption around the direct radiators and while this wasn't bad, it probably suffered from it being more of an after thought than an intentional design.
I was planning to incorporate the DRs into the corner using a parabolic 'reverse baffle' before I changed toward corner design.
Here too, I agree with your characterizations. I think that's largely because you've done it, so you get it. Its only real disadvantage is that it is very room specific, and not all rooms are setup in a way that constant directivity cornerhorns would be appropriate. But where the room has the right corners, obstruction-free, symmetrical and not too far apart or too close together, this approach is really wonderful.
Surely you guys see that this is inevitably leading to the ultimate speaker in a room. It is going to be a ceiling mount trihedral (tetra) implementation of the Synergy concept right?
Pete - that's actually a decent idea. Too bad you told everyone, now you can't even patent it!! I could picture just how such a thing could be made.
Its interesting, because this idea is actually how things should be done. It would be far more important to have the higher frequencies at the apex than the lower ones and yet the exact opposite is done in practice.
Its interesting, because this idea is actually how things should be done. It would be far more important to have the higher frequencies at the apex than the lower ones and yet the exact opposite is done in practice.
Although ceiling mount trihedral (tetra) implementation of the Synergy concept works well, it will sound like the sound is coming from the ceiling/wall juncture, preferable (to me) than the floor juncture, but still not "right".Its interesting, because this idea is actually how things should be done. It would be far more important to have the higher frequencies at the apex than the lower ones and yet the exact opposite is done in practice.
Rather than use the ceiling/wall juncture I'd prefer an ear height corner Synergy with floor to ceiling soffit/horn roundover.
But it won't fit in my listening room without loosing a window...
Pete - that's actually a decent idea. Too bad you told everyone, now you can't even patent it!! I could picture just how such a thing could be made.
Its interesting, because this idea is actually how things should be done. It would be far more important to have the higher frequencies at the apex than the lower ones and yet the exact opposite is done in practice.
That though it seems to me to be obvious, would be unfair to patent. I would not do that to Tom Danley. The important part of this idea is Danleys work, the corner horn is Paul Klipsch. I did in fact post this idea about a year ago on. Check another forum, without guys like you all who get it. Check my record this isn't the first time I managed to put it all together and let others have the ball. I think I know the design you are thinking of too.(-: oh well
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Are you picturing a "how" without a false wall (or drivers outside the room, to put it another way)? I've been pondering a decent way to make a tetrahedral corner horn for years but the daydream always ends with "well, I'll get back to that when I buy a house".Pete - that's actually a decent idea. Too bad you told everyone, now you can't even patent it!! I could picture just how such a thing could be made.
P.S. No, I'm not trying to say "me too", I wondered if such a thing existed a long time ago, and found some old threads on them here and elsewhere. Nothing very interesting actually executed, that I saw.
I also was going toward unity but for mid and bass, not treble. There doesn't seem to be an entirely ideal way to enter a typical room, even if it were strictly necessary which it isn't.
I'm working on injecting the bass below the room vertical axial modes at the room quarter height points, ala line array style which would amount to a virtual unity effect with the midrange anyway.
I don't know, I find it hard to imagine that someone didn't have all these thoughts fifty or more years ago. Everyone keeps saying there's nothing new under the sun.
I'm working on injecting the bass below the room vertical axial modes at the room quarter height points, ala line array style which would amount to a virtual unity effect with the midrange anyway.
I don't know, I find it hard to imagine that someone didn't have all these thoughts fifty or more years ago. Everyone keeps saying there's nothing new under the sun.
Hi Art. You may be missing the point. The fact is we are stuck with that juncture in the vast majority of all rooms. If those surfaces are in behind us or above and below the plane of a "point source" or any source. That juncture is either a freind or an enemy in almost every room. This combines Danley Klipsch and Crowns PZM boundry work into one. Clarity is assured.
Although ceiling mount trihedral (tetra) implementation of the Synergy concept works well, it will sound like the sound is coming from the ceiling/wall juncture, preferable (to me) than the floor juncture, but still not "right".
Rather than use the ceiling/wall juncture I'd prefer an ear height corner Synergy with floor to ceiling soffit/horn roundover.
But it won't fit in my listening room without loosing a window...
Indeed the tri-corner tweeter is a sweet idea..it does guarantee one full early(ish) vertical reflection whereas the normal height tweeter stands half a chance of avoiding both verticals.Rather than use the ceiling/wall juncture I'd prefer an ear height corner Synergy with floor to ceiling soffit/horn roundover.
Rooms were never meant for this. Maybe I could build the trihedral corner at half room height. Better go see the council for a building permit 😀
I Think if you look at the radius of that juncture you will see that the sweet spot from the corner will be huge not a spot at all with this "horn" it will cover most of any room.
Indeed the tri-corner tweeter is a sweet idea..it does guarantee one full early(ish) vertical reflection whereas the normal height tweeter stands half a chance of avoiding both verticals.
Rooms were never meant for this. Maybe I could build the trihedral corner at half room height. Better go see the council for a building permit 😀
I Think if you look at the radius of that juncture you will see that the sweet spot from the corner will be huge not a spot at all with this "horn" it will cover most of any room.
Indeed the tri-corner tweeter is a sweet idea..it does guarantee one full early(ish) vertical reflection whereas the normal height tweeter stands half a chance of avoiding both verticals.
Rooms were never meant for this. Maybe I could build the trihedral corner at half room height. Better go see the council for a building permit 😀
Actually those ceiling corners are up for grabs in most rooms. Wouldn't a couple of nice earth toned fabric modules look nice in this room dear, instead of the 12 point elk heads I had in mind? 😎
No need to put the drivers in the wall at to get the full benefit of this, in fact the "box" becomes the false wall and the fairing becomes a usefll horn flare
Are you picturing a "how" without a false wall (or drivers outside the room, to put it another way)? I've been pondering a decent way to make a tetrahedral corner horn for years but the daydream always ends with "well, I'll get back to that when I buy a house".
P.S. No, I'm not trying to say "me too", I wondered if such a thing existed a long time ago, and found some old threads on them here and elsewhere. Nothing very interesting actually executed, that I saw.
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