That was a near miss. I can only imagine how awful it would sound if you'd designed it by hand, and crossed over at 176 or174 hertz instead,
Actually, the freq is 176.5924671312284146331456987131382 Hz, but I decided to round down for this post.
In other words, there's no need for you to be a smart @$$.
What do you mean have I built one with a baffle? That's exactly what they're on...
Been tweaking speaker positioning more, adjusting levels, crossover points and such. Really getting these dialed in. The result of all that work was that the AutoEQ in the dbx Venu 360 had to implement a lot less in order to make corrections.
Afterwards, I played my reference songs from Phil Collins - In The Air Tonight, I Don't Care Anymore, and Genesis - Mama. Songs/albums that I have lived and breathed for the past 30+ years. Also Carley Simon -Coming Around Again and Sting - Why Should I Cry For You and When The Angels Fall.
Especially while playing the Phil Collins and Genesis tracks, tonight was the first time in a very long time that my system made me get chills down my spine and actually start laughing to myself because how damn good it sounded! The last time this happened was when I was running HUGE open baffles back in the early 2000's with Usher Audio 15" drivers and Altec Voice Of The Theater 511B horns and 908-8b drivers. And this system is more refined than that system was, and much smaller by comparison!
Sheer dynamic swing, purely effortless slam, in-the-room vocals and drums, stage width and depth galore! And the naturalness and realistic presentation of it all... And this is STILL with the flimsy temp baffles and only one bass driver per side. I still have six more of these Eminence Acoustinator N2012 drivers to install (three per channel).
This is the RTA on the dbx Venu 360 after all the tweaking and running AutoEQ again, now with a lot less processing needed.
Afterwards, I played my reference songs from Phil Collins - In The Air Tonight, I Don't Care Anymore, and Genesis - Mama. Songs/albums that I have lived and breathed for the past 30+ years. Also Carley Simon -Coming Around Again and Sting - Why Should I Cry For You and When The Angels Fall.
Especially while playing the Phil Collins and Genesis tracks, tonight was the first time in a very long time that my system made me get chills down my spine and actually start laughing to myself because how damn good it sounded! The last time this happened was when I was running HUGE open baffles back in the early 2000's with Usher Audio 15" drivers and Altec Voice Of The Theater 511B horns and 908-8b drivers. And this system is more refined than that system was, and much smaller by comparison!
Sheer dynamic swing, purely effortless slam, in-the-room vocals and drums, stage width and depth galore! And the naturalness and realistic presentation of it all... And this is STILL with the flimsy temp baffles and only one bass driver per side. I still have six more of these Eminence Acoustinator N2012 drivers to install (three per channel).
This is the RTA on the dbx Venu 360 after all the tweaking and running AutoEQ again, now with a lot less processing needed.
I am sorry, I did not visit here for a while, so I am late...
I have trashed the close measurements, they are kind of misleading with those no baffle speakers anyway, so I designed the crossover from my listening space, outdoors would be much better I guess, but no chance close to my apartment. Those speakers are work in progress anyway, I replaced the Satori for an Omnes Audio BB 3.5 on a very small baffle. omnes audio Breitbandlautsprecher BB3.5,
The polar pattern of the speaker improved even more due to the better radiation behaviour of the small 3 inch speaker. I tried it wide range without the planar tweeter, but the treble sounded a little lifeless without it, so I left it in.
I could not keep the very shallow crossovers, because the bb 3.5 is not capable of giving a clean signal below 600 HZ in this configuration.
So I implemented 24dB LR crossovers between all the drivers and experiment in the moment with making them phase linear with the help of rephase and camilladsp, implemented in my PiCore player.
My open baffle version looked like this:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-baffle-gallery-300.html#post6212080
Not very comparable with what I have now. It sounded very nice already, but really only at the listening space, when moving in the room, the uneven dispersion behaviour was a bit annoying.
The system I use now sounds very similar from everywhere in the room, it just gets louder in the sweet spot and sounds really perfect there, but standing exactly in between the speakers sounds good, too, even though the reflections from the wall are louder than the direct sound, a strange sensation
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Thank you for the reply. The reason I asked about the FR measurement is that I've had more luck equalising for a flat response measured close to the speaker rather than at the listening position. I find the result sounds more natural that way.
Your naked drive units got me thinking about trying something similar but I expect they need equalisation, therefore maybe not suitable for my 15 watt amplifier.
Your naked drive units got me thinking about trying something similar but I expect they need equalisation, therefore maybe not suitable for my 15 watt amplifier.
I make sure the driver alone and close up measures as expected and usually it does, but that close the dipole losses are not as pronounced as 2 meters away. I never equalise for room cancellations, just for good summing of the drivers and a relatively flat response, just using relatively broad dips and lifts.
Since the bass and the mid bass drivers both have around 10dB bass shelf applied to counteract the dipole loss and the high mid driver still 3 dB, the system sensitivity should be around 82 dB 1W. And I have to use 8 amps with digital dsp in front to power and EQ it. The tweeter and the high mid driver could be crossed passively, but the rest not so much for best results.
After almost a year, I finished this open baffle project with AE and Beyma speakers. Now comes the hardest part for me, the crossover settings. I don't have much experience (practically zero), but ...I hope to be able to get a good result.
I wanted to get some advice, please. If I still have an OCTO DAC8 PRO with 8 channels, it would be an advantage if a Dipole 15 bass speaker (two 16R coil) would go up to about 80 Hz, and another Dipole 15 (two 16 R coil) would go from at 80 Htz to 250 Htz?
That is to make a separation for 4 bands:
80 Htz
80--250 Htz
250--2500 Htz
2500 --20000 Htz
Or is it better to use both speakers in parallel for frequencies up to 250 Htz?
Thank you very much for your help
I wanted to get some advice, please. If I still have an OCTO DAC8 PRO with 8 channels, it would be an advantage if a Dipole 15 bass speaker (two 16R coil) would go up to about 80 Hz, and another Dipole 15 (two 16 R coil) would go from at 80 Htz to 250 Htz?
That is to make a separation for 4 bands:
80 Htz
80--250 Htz
250--2500 Htz
2500 --20000 Htz
Or is it better to use both speakers in parallel for frequencies up to 250 Htz?
Thank you very much for your help
Attachments
If you have the power amps, I would try 4 way. One driver can easily cover the 80-250Hz, so leave the lowest to play the 80Hz only. I did not do the math, but you will get less interference (comb filtering) around the 250Hz region. If one can hear it, don't know
As written by Baffless, do indeed use both to play below 80Hz, and only to play until 250Hz.
As written by Baffless, do indeed use both to play below 80Hz, and only to play until 250Hz.
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Very nice looking ! Congratulations. You don't have luxury to use only one driver below 80Hz for dipole. So you have to use both. But that doesn't mean you have to go 3way. If you have spare amp you can do like this.
min freq- 80 Htz
min freq-250 Htz
250--2500 Htz
2500 --20000 Htz
Anyway use both below 80hz !!
min freq- 80 Htz
min freq-250 Htz
250--2500 Htz
2500 --20000 Htz
Anyway use both below 80hz !!
Dipole 15 magnets have an M10 thread in the middle.
To this thread I fixed a round metal plate, which has four M4 threads on the side.
The "plate" that holds the magnet is attached to the frame with a screw in the middle of the M5.
There are four holes in it on the side, through which I screw the M4 screws into the round metal plate.
For me the number of amplifiers would not be a problem, I have enough
For measurements I bought a microphone from minidsp UMIK-1
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In this case, what would be the minimum power for each amplifier?
Would it be OK 300 Watt for each bass speaker? (I have 4 pieces of amplifiers in class AB)
Thanks a lot for the appreciation
My english is not perfect, but I reread your message several times and now I hope I understood, I don't have to go with 20 (theoretically) - 80 Htz and 80--250 Htz, but with 20-80 Htz if 20-250 Htz. Correct ?
Thanks a lot for the appreciation
My english is not perfect, but I reread your message several times and now I hope I understood, I don't have to go with 20 (theoretically) - 80 Htz and 80--250 Htz, but with 20-80 Htz if 20-250 Htz. Correct ?
My english also not perfect
Yes you understood correct. Whatever way you choose, make sure both drivers moves air below 80hz. You need lots of volume moved. Your baffle is not wide, path difference small.