For sure all the lythics drifted... You have to measure that. Can be also the mid peaking you can hear in the trebles due to alterations of drivers datas and filters.
Can help to know waht is pluged before till to the source used.
Can help to know waht is pluged before till to the source used.
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In all likeliness, tweeters are the last thing needing replacement, meaning they would be faulty.
The treble is too prominent, and should be muted. However, along with that, some changes will be needed on the crossover, because it is poorly integrated with the midrange. And that will be difficult without measuring equipment. With that DC resistance, the tweeter is practically 6ohms nominal impedance. And as far as I can see from Stereophile measurements, there are also some high-pitched rings on two frequencies.
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I 'd try it. It is too much flat.
It doesn t need to be perfect for a POC, Simple as that.
Of course a proper measurement would be great.
It doesn t need to be perfect for a POC, Simple as that.
Of course a proper measurement would be great.
I was searching for tweeters that might fit into the existing faceplate. But, it is difficult to find one because both the hole diameter and screw locations must match.
I generally don't like to alter the values of crossover components while I often changes capacitors with different ones with the same values. Regarding 2-4kHz dip issue, I mentioned it because I was a little reluctant to try to alter crossover without changing tweeters because original design must have reasons for the values.
I haven't thought that the harshness might be coming from mids. I will think about this possibility too.
Well, first of all, it may not exactly be due to the speakers themselves but to my approaches to the selection of audio equipment. I had read a number of people talking about somewhat bit harsh treble from Matrix 800. So I am not alone.
With some nicely matched amps and preamps, the sound with Matrix 800 may be quite different. But, I generally like more revealing system. I use parallel single ended tube amps with 211 tubes and use only silver wires and cables. As you might know, 211 tubes are famous for their upper frequency resolution and may produce less comforting sound compared with tubes like 845. Also, silver wires and cables are more or less similar. (Well annealed silver wires also produce good bass sound too.) So, it may not be the original tweeter but my personal selection of equipment that make the current issue.
With my current setup, the situation is like this. I feel something in the mid-high frequency (I mean frequencies not that far high) is slightly missing and high frequency sound are a little bit too strong. I particularly love violin sound. For example, I love rich violin sound by David Oistrakh. But, what I am getting with Matrix 800 is rather thin sound. So, Oistrakh's sound is rather similar to Szerying's sound. I have been trying to roll off the amplifier high frequencies to resolve this. But, this makes music a little dull but still the richness is not there. I don't know whether I have to compromise there. So I decided to try to see if I can do better with different tweeter.
I don't know if I can achieve better results with different tweeter. If not, I might just go back to the original tweeters or I might just go back to speakers that I had used long time ago.
Guys who build speakers change these things (x-overs ), all the time. It's not unusual to have an unintentional peak, or dip somewhere in the response. There is no exact perfect speaker response. What sounds balanced to me may not be to your liking. I had a friend tell me one of my recent speakers sounded harsh. I don't think so. Years ago, I had another speaker. A different friend was ecstatic about how it played violins. I changed the x-over, like I always do, and thought it was the same or better. He said I ruined it. He actually got mad at me. I'm not into violin music at all.
I'm not into exotic caps, but some say they hear the differences. Did you try any that were high dollar?
Here's a random value cap that is not in my budget, but possibly something you would consider. This is not a recommendation, it's just an example.
https://www.parts-express.com/Jantzen-0574-8.2uF-800V-Z-Superior-Capacitor-027-496?quantity=1
I'm not into exotic caps, but some say they hear the differences. Did you try any that were high dollar?
Here's a random value cap that is not in my budget, but possibly something you would consider. This is not a recommendation, it's just an example.
https://www.parts-express.com/Jantzen-0574-8.2uF-800V-Z-Superior-Capacitor-027-496?quantity=1
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As I said above, I was reluctant to change the value of the original crossover. But, as you suggested, I will consider changing the 2.7ohm to 3.3ohm or higher and see if it helps. People here are suggesting various methods, so it will take some time for me to test them allo.
Regarding the picture, the speakers are shown in the following review:
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/691bw800/index.html
Hi,
I was also very reluctant to consider replacing tweeters or
to change the crossover network. And I know it may be difficult.
But, with all experiments with other equipment, I decided to try.
If I am not that successful, I can go back to my original tweeters.
Because I don't want to try random parts, I need some help
and advices from experts here.
Anyway, thanks for your comments.
There's also a trick you can try. If you put a small cap across the padding resistor, it will increase the very top end. The possibilities are almost endless, and are what make speaker building fun.
Yes, this is the speaker I am talking about.
I also have seen the website selling the speakers with tweeters
replaced with Satori Beryllium tweeters. I don't know why the
retailer replaced the original tweeters. Probably, the stock
tweeters might have been blown away. Over decades while
I was owning the speakers, I read a number of people wanted
to buy the tweeters because they were blown away.
Actually, after I watched the ads, I came to think I might also
consider changing the tweeters. As you said, I will also
have to change the crossover if I change the tweeters.
But, before that, I need to know that the new tweeters must
meet as replacements. In that regard, I need help.
If there are tweeters that readily fit into the holes, then
I might just buy several cheap tweeters to know about
feasible specs. But, because physical fitting itself is not
straightforward, I decided to ask if someone can help me.
Regarding your advice on Hypex Fusion 3 channel plate amp,
I will take note of it. I am yet new to it. So, I am unsure if
I can go that path. But, it is great to learn about it.
Thanks for your sharing information.
This tweeter looks like a close fit on the flange. Not sure on the hole. The tweeter can be rotated, so screw location does not matter. They are out of stock currently.
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-da25tx00-08.html
A x-over can shape the response quite a bit. Deciding what you like, and what you are hearing is the challenge. Measurements help identify the changes.
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-da25tx00-08.html
A x-over can shape the response quite a bit. Deciding what you like, and what you are hearing is the challenge. Measurements help identify the changes.
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Not sure if that comment was for me. Assuming it is... If a cap across the padding resistors increases frequencies above 10k relative to 10k, then the 4k to 10k range can be dropped by several dB, but the very high frequencies above 10k can remain as they are.
Hi, thanks for your advices.
It is not actually surprising to see comments discouraging
me to change tweeters, because I myself was reluctant
until I had seen the website you linked above. After seeing
that they replaced the tweeters with something available
and thinking about that for weeks, I decided I might try
something similar.
Regarding ferrofluid change, I did it myself. Eventually,
the replacement of ferrofluid helped clearing up the
harshness a lot. I watched instruction on the web several
times and did the job as well as I can. The problem was
that I couldn't find exact physical specs (such as viscosity)
of the original ferrofluid used in the stock tweeters.
Most sellers are selling ferrofluids depending on the voice
coil size. Some seller says that they are selling what
B&W uses. In any case, I experimented with various
different ferrofluids (for speakers) before settled down to
one that came from one seller from Greece.
One detail that you mentioned is very interesting: The use of single-ended valve amplifiers !
I guess this speaker was not developed with this kind of amp in mind. You could easily have some serious reponse deviation with this kind of high-output impedance amps. Are you able to measure the frequency response at the output of your amps (with the speakers connected of course) ? If there is an irregularity in the amplitude response then there is time for an impedance correction.
This impedance correction would be conneted in parallel with the speakers.
Regards
Charles
I guess this speaker was not developed with this kind of amp in mind. You could easily have some serious reponse deviation with this kind of high-output impedance amps. Are you able to measure the frequency response at the output of your amps (with the speakers connected of course) ? If there is an irregularity in the amplitude response then there is time for an impedance correction.
This impedance correction would be conneted in parallel with the speakers.
Regards
Charles