When I go to a thrift store, there is almost always an old Tube Stereo Console available for $7 to $25 CDN.
The stereo consoles usually have a radio and phono. The most common brands are Viking (from Eatons) and Fleetwood. I have attached a picture to give a general idea of what these things look like.
Now, to my questiond. Is it worth while picking one of these up for the parts inside?
Typically there are a couple radio, preamp, amp and rectifier tubes. Given how old these consoles are and assuming that they were used a lot, are the tubes of any appreciable value or would they be too worn out and not suitable for a DIY project?
The power transformer is typically enclosed and very large. It must have several different voltages for all the different tube types.
The output transformers are typically for 8ohm speakers and very small.
I am interested in building a preamp, are these consoles a good source for parts?
Cheers,
Gio.
The stereo consoles usually have a radio and phono. The most common brands are Viking (from Eatons) and Fleetwood. I have attached a picture to give a general idea of what these things look like.
Now, to my questiond. Is it worth while picking one of these up for the parts inside?
Typically there are a couple radio, preamp, amp and rectifier tubes. Given how old these consoles are and assuming that they were used a lot, are the tubes of any appreciable value or would they be too worn out and not suitable for a DIY project?
The power transformer is typically enclosed and very large. It must have several different voltages for all the different tube types.
The output transformers are typically for 8ohm speakers and very small.
I am interested in building a preamp, are these consoles a good source for parts?
Cheers,
Gio.
Attachments
That there is a Grundig Mandello, a unit which I have pride in. I wouldn't recommend taking it apart if that's the one you're thinking of.
Might I ask where you got this picture? I have one of these myself and I use it on a regular basis. It's one of the best radios I've ever used and the FM quality is outstanding.
It has the obligatory european oval speakers, reminiscent of the american 6x9, but bigger and really nice. On the sides of the unit, underneath the little plastic grilles, are small electrostatic tweeters.
Perhaps you already know all about this unit and I'm wasting my time. But I had to put my comment in on it 😉
Might I ask where you got this picture? I have one of these myself and I use it on a regular basis. It's one of the best radios I've ever used and the FM quality is outstanding.
It has the obligatory european oval speakers, reminiscent of the american 6x9, but bigger and really nice. On the sides of the unit, underneath the little plastic grilles, are small electrostatic tweeters.
Perhaps you already know all about this unit and I'm wasting my time. But I had to put my comment in on it 😉
>> 7$ - 25$
Good grief. Here in Helsinki I almost never find any kind of old tube radios/consoles in "thrift stores", second hand shops, junk stores, call them what you will. When I do they are seriously expensive. For example:
One huge radio/gramaphone player from 50s/60s, make unknown, not such good condition, not operational 250 Euro.
One small "3D sound" radio/gramaphone from 50s/60s, make unknown, terrible condition, not working 100 Euro.
One AGA radio from 1947, model 1741, no case only chassis, not working, 18 Euro. I snapped that up for parts but now have challenged myself to get it working as I found the schematic on the net.
One Phillips "Panos" (I think they are called) AM/FM mono radio with stereo amp from 1961, 78 Euro. I also snapped that up as well. Amazingly it's in mint, factory fresh condition and works fine and sounds brilliant so it will remain on show in my living room for many years to come.
Not sure what I mean to say here but sometimes I miss the days back in England in the 70s/80s when mountains of this stuff were kicking around for free.
Good grief. Here in Helsinki I almost never find any kind of old tube radios/consoles in "thrift stores", second hand shops, junk stores, call them what you will. When I do they are seriously expensive. For example:
One huge radio/gramaphone player from 50s/60s, make unknown, not such good condition, not operational 250 Euro.
One small "3D sound" radio/gramaphone from 50s/60s, make unknown, terrible condition, not working 100 Euro.
One AGA radio from 1947, model 1741, no case only chassis, not working, 18 Euro. I snapped that up for parts but now have challenged myself to get it working as I found the schematic on the net.
One Phillips "Panos" (I think they are called) AM/FM mono radio with stereo amp from 1961, 78 Euro. I also snapped that up as well. Amazingly it's in mint, factory fresh condition and works fine and sounds brilliant so it will remain on show in my living room for many years to come.
Not sure what I mean to say here but sometimes I miss the days back in England in the 70s/80s when mountains of this stuff were kicking around for free.
Consoles are a good source for parts -- either to use or to profit from. German ones... like the one pictured, Nordmendes, Grundigs, etc are almost always worth buying, especially if they are as cheap as you say.
1/ they come with nice speakers -- the Nordmendes in particular are a rich source for vintage alnico Isophons (older Noresco speakers are also a good source for isophons)
2/ they tended to be run conservatively. I've gotten 40 year old Telefunken EL84s that test as new. You'll also run across an occasional ECC83. I'd like to find a good way to use ECC85s in amps & such. Every once in awhile you'll come across an EF86 (althou these are more common in old reel-to-reel tape decks). You'll also see some odd-balls such as ELL80s and ECLL800s. The ELL80 is essentially 2 EL95s in a single bottle... if you have enuff drive (ie a foreplay or such) they make a neat spud amp. I've run across a single example of a real beefy PP EL84 Telefunken.
The ECLL800 is an entire push-pull power amp in a single tube.
3/ most of the times the iron will be small but well made... but every once in awhile you score one of the higher end, and that iron is really nice.
Little Nordmende vrs big Nordmende iron
usually the iron is SE, but occasionally you'll run across a PP. The little SE iron will make an amp that doesn't have a whole lotta bottom end, but conversly this makes them quite good you use as tweeter amps (one of the constraints of SE iron is that to get them to go low you have to scrifice top). If you find 2 sets of iron you can also do the parafeed thing... use the primary of one OPT for a parafeed choke, and another for the OPT -- the friend who built the spud above eveloved the Decware ZEN idea into parafeed monobloks (EF86 into EL84, both triode strapped) that are quite stunning. He used Grundig trafo, OPTs, hammond choke, and RS filament trafo. I've also run across a couple RTF consoles with SE EL84 OPTs that are monsters (think ST70 OPTs)
Canadian consoles are usually a little less exciting. In my experience often more expensive -- because the woodwork is better (a good source for Robertsen screws). Newer ones are typically SE EL84 or PP ECL82/6BM8 or PP ECL86 (pictured). Sometimes you'll run into a 50EH5 amp -- these make good spuds.
Older ones often have more interesting looking iron, but are most often mono. These -- at least in my sample set -- are most often SE 6V6
The iron is probably Hammond, and not to the same build level as the Euro stuff.
Speakers are invariably Radio Speakers of Canada. Not the level of finish as say the isophons but often quite decent sonically. RSC OEmed for Jensen, RCA, and Isophon. These -- if no better than regular stock -- carry a resale premium associated with the name.
I've had one BayCrest that was made in Canada with imported Telefunken electronics & english Sonotone speakers. Sometimes you will also find Tesla speakers.
American consoles in Canada are a bit more scarce, but there were some nice RCAs (one 3 channel unit that had a really nice bass OPT -- 2 of those consoles and you have a pr of them -- i shipped my sole example of that off to Montreal to make a pair in exchange for a power supply the fellow had given me). You may also run across the famed Magnavox PP amp that Gabe used as a model for one of his production amps, or a Fisher buried inside something with a different name on the outside.
My samples haven't included anything from the UK, but i have run into a few Philips. My samples all had 800 ohm iron & speakers in them. There is a nice example sitting in a 2nd hand store with ECL86 SE and pristine alnico AD2800 (?) and a little alnico 3 or 4" i've never seen before -- she wants $300 for the thing thou. I expect it will sit in her window for a long time.
So in short, the answer is yes, scoop them up. What you can't use yourself or give to your friends is worth cash on eBay -- either for pizza, beer, other parts, or like me, a way to help stay alive in times of under employment.
Reel-to-reels are also a good source for bits. Here is a pic of some sizeable EL84 SE OPTs from a Sony portable R-R (sitting on top of a pair of Nordmende power trafos). They also have a 600 ohm secondary which could be run out to RCAs and used to drive a SS woofer amp and add the tube amps flavour too, or even use as a real ballsy pre-amp. (i'm guessing the OPTs are made by Tamura). The tape deck these came out of also came with a pr of a Coral version of the FE103A)
.
dave
1/ they come with nice speakers -- the Nordmendes in particular are a rich source for vintage alnico Isophons (older Noresco speakers are also a good source for isophons)
2/ they tended to be run conservatively. I've gotten 40 year old Telefunken EL84s that test as new. You'll also run across an occasional ECC83. I'd like to find a good way to use ECC85s in amps & such. Every once in awhile you'll come across an EF86 (althou these are more common in old reel-to-reel tape decks). You'll also see some odd-balls such as ELL80s and ECLL800s. The ELL80 is essentially 2 EL95s in a single bottle... if you have enuff drive (ie a foreplay or such) they make a neat spud amp. I've run across a single example of a real beefy PP EL84 Telefunken.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
.The ECLL800 is an entire push-pull power amp in a single tube.
3/ most of the times the iron will be small but well made... but every once in awhile you score one of the higher end, and that iron is really nice.
Little Nordmende vrs big Nordmende iron
usually the iron is SE, but occasionally you'll run across a PP. The little SE iron will make an amp that doesn't have a whole lotta bottom end, but conversly this makes them quite good you use as tweeter amps (one of the constraints of SE iron is that to get them to go low you have to scrifice top). If you find 2 sets of iron you can also do the parafeed thing... use the primary of one OPT for a parafeed choke, and another for the OPT -- the friend who built the spud above eveloved the Decware ZEN idea into parafeed monobloks (EF86 into EL84, both triode strapped) that are quite stunning. He used Grundig trafo, OPTs, hammond choke, and RS filament trafo. I've also run across a couple RTF consoles with SE EL84 OPTs that are monsters (think ST70 OPTs)
Canadian consoles are usually a little less exciting. In my experience often more expensive -- because the woodwork is better (a good source for Robertsen screws). Newer ones are typically SE EL84 or PP ECL82/6BM8 or PP ECL86 (pictured). Sometimes you'll run into a 50EH5 amp -- these make good spuds.
Older ones often have more interesting looking iron, but are most often mono. These -- at least in my sample set -- are most often SE 6V6
The iron is probably Hammond, and not to the same build level as the Euro stuff.
Speakers are invariably Radio Speakers of Canada. Not the level of finish as say the isophons but often quite decent sonically. RSC OEmed for Jensen, RCA, and Isophon. These -- if no better than regular stock -- carry a resale premium associated with the name.
I've had one BayCrest that was made in Canada with imported Telefunken electronics & english Sonotone speakers. Sometimes you will also find Tesla speakers.
American consoles in Canada are a bit more scarce, but there were some nice RCAs (one 3 channel unit that had a really nice bass OPT -- 2 of those consoles and you have a pr of them -- i shipped my sole example of that off to Montreal to make a pair in exchange for a power supply the fellow had given me). You may also run across the famed Magnavox PP amp that Gabe used as a model for one of his production amps, or a Fisher buried inside something with a different name on the outside.
My samples haven't included anything from the UK, but i have run into a few Philips. My samples all had 800 ohm iron & speakers in them. There is a nice example sitting in a 2nd hand store with ECL86 SE and pristine alnico AD2800 (?) and a little alnico 3 or 4" i've never seen before -- she wants $300 for the thing thou. I expect it will sit in her window for a long time.
So in short, the answer is yes, scoop them up. What you can't use yourself or give to your friends is worth cash on eBay -- either for pizza, beer, other parts, or like me, a way to help stay alive in times of under employment.
Reel-to-reels are also a good source for bits. Here is a pic of some sizeable EL84 SE OPTs from a Sony portable R-R (sitting on top of a pair of Nordmende power trafos). They also have a 600 ohm secondary which could be run out to RCAs and used to drive a SS woofer amp and add the tube amps flavour too, or even use as a real ballsy pre-amp. (i'm guessing the OPTs are made by Tamura). The tape deck these came out of also came with a pr of a Coral version of the FE103A)
dave
gmilitano said:
Gio,
They are worth picking up for the whole amplifier!
I have purchased 3 such consoles over the past 18 months. One was a mono unit with a broken turntable. I removed the amp and the 12"!!! and 3" speakers. I then built a new cabinet to install the speakers and amp added a couple of jacks and my oldest son uses it as a guitar amp. It sounds great.
The second one is in my younger son's room, console and all. It is a large stereo unit with turntable and tuner. After replacing a couple caps and cleaning the pots it also has a very nice sound.
The amps from the third are sitting on a shelf waiting for inspiration to strike.
If you find one that doesn't work it can often be repaired by replacing the caps and sometimes the resistors. Of course having a tube tester is also handy. Those that don't work can be cannibalized for parts. Often the tubes are fine as are the transformers. At the price it is hard to go wrong.
Duo said:
Sorry, I found the pic on the net. It was ment to show people what what a console kinda looks like. The consoles I see are typically Viking or Fleetwood.
planet10 said:
I will give one a try tommorow (there is no football!). From what I saw, the power transformer is much bigger than the pictures you showed but the output transformers where quite a bit smaller than the ones you have shown.
Typically, the consoles I have seen have a tube power supply, tube radio, tube preamp and tube amp all on one chasis. I assume that is the reason for the large power transformer.
Sherman said:
I may have to consider getting a tube tester. What do these normally cost?
It is worth a shot, I could easily use the power transformer and preamp tubes to build a simple phono preamp from scratch.
Thanks for the info guys. I am always impressed with how friendly and knowledgable the people are in the forums.
Cheers,
Gio.
Re: Re: Tube Stereo Consoles from Thrift Stores
Like anything else it depends on the model and where you get it. I picked up mine, which is a portable field technician's unit at an "antique" store for about $25 US. It works great and came with a "Tube Substitution Handbook" as well as the original manual.
GG said:
Like anything else it depends on the model and where you get it. I picked up mine, which is a portable field technician's unit at an "antique" store for about $25 US. It works great and came with a "Tube Substitution Handbook" as well as the original manual.
My tube tester (Heath) turned out to be broken (good for testing shorts thou). I have another i haven't checked out yet (so old i need to check everything over before plugging it in). I also have a couple articles on making your own tube tester. I haven't pursued any of these because there is a local fellow (Pacific TV) with a whole whack of really good testers. He charges me a loon a tube (sometimes i swap him parts). The real value is that the guy is a wealth of info about tubes, tube kit etc. I always leave with my tested tubes with way more value in information and stories than the cost of the testing 🙂
dave
dave
Fleetwood & Viking
Well, I got the bug, so I purchased two consoles today and took them apart. Here are the details:
Viking $13CDN
Power Iron EEA3 24-80035-04 (enclosed)
Output Iron EEA3 24-10034-01
(2) 6GW8 / ECL86 - amp
(1) 6C84 - rectifier
Radio tubes (one each) ECC85/6AQ8, ECH81/6AJ8, 6BA6, EABC80/6AK8
Fleetwood $7CDN
Power Iron ANB8 71F055 60CY (enclosed)
Output Iron AT-18J (marked 8 ohms)
(2) 50EH5 - amp
(1) 12AX7A - preamp ?
Radio tubes (one each) 19EA8, 12BE6, 17EW8
(three) 12BA6
I did not have to look hard for something to do with the 50EH5 tubes:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tubes/SEP_50EH5.html
Mine would have to be a $7 amp! 😀
How do I figure out what type of output tranformers these are?
Also, anyone have any project suggestions.
Cheers,
Gio.
Well, I got the bug, so I purchased two consoles today and took them apart. Here are the details:
Viking $13CDN
Power Iron EEA3 24-80035-04 (enclosed)
Output Iron EEA3 24-10034-01
(2) 6GW8 / ECL86 - amp
(1) 6C84 - rectifier
Radio tubes (one each) ECC85/6AQ8, ECH81/6AJ8, 6BA6, EABC80/6AK8
Fleetwood $7CDN
Power Iron ANB8 71F055 60CY (enclosed)
Output Iron AT-18J (marked 8 ohms)
(2) 50EH5 - amp
(1) 12AX7A - preamp ?
Radio tubes (one each) 19EA8, 12BE6, 17EW8
(three) 12BA6
I did not have to look hard for something to do with the 50EH5 tubes:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tubes/SEP_50EH5.html
Mine would have to be a $7 amp! 😀
How do I figure out what type of output tranformers these are?
Also, anyone have any project suggestions.
Cheers,
Gio.
Can you take pics... the 50EH5 amp may be the same as a pr of amps i have for the mark II (BTW, my $5 amp cost more than $5 --- just the name given to it by Allen Wright.
The ECL86 is a candidate for an RH circuit.
dave
The ECL86 is a candidate for an RH circuit.
dave
Re: Fleetwood
Yes, that is the one i have 2 of. They have much, much nicer OPTs than the usual 50EH5 faire and they come with power transformers to boot... i've got chassis started for 2 stereo amps. I was going to see how few parts i could get away with in the amp (ie 3Rs).
dave
GG said:
Yes, that is the one i have 2 of. They have much, much nicer OPTs than the usual 50EH5 faire and they come with power transformers to boot... i've got chassis started for 2 stereo amps. I was going to see how few parts i could get away with in the amp (ie 3Rs).
dave
No mention of the speakers in these puppies....
I know i was able to sell the one's out of the Vikings. If you remind me what they are i can tell you for how much.
I also note that your Fleetwood has the same stream of transformer numbers as my last Viking with the PP ECL86 amp -- same construction style -- means Fleetwood was buying amps from the same place Viking was (come to think of it, aren't Fleetwood & Viking both Eatons house brands?). That console had RSC speakers with numbers that indicated they were OEMed for Jensen (the Jensen name makes them no better, but does make them more valuable if resold)
dave
I know i was able to sell the one's out of the Vikings. If you remind me what they are i can tell you for how much.
I also note that your Fleetwood has the same stream of transformer numbers as my last Viking with the PP ECL86 amp -- same construction style -- means Fleetwood was buying amps from the same place Viking was (come to think of it, aren't Fleetwood & Viking both Eatons house brands?). That console had RSC speakers with numbers that indicated they were OEMed for Jensen (the Jensen name makes them no better, but does make them more valuable if resold)
dave
Re: Viking
It's a name given by Alex Kitic to a circuit which uses shunt feedback around the output stage between anode and control grid, and operates the output valve in single ended fixed screen (pentode) mode. The shunt feedback lowers the input impedance of the output stage, so you need a driver stage capable of swinging some current, preferably with a high output impedance as well, as this makes the feedback more effective.
EDIT: Wasn't your diyAudio moniker gmilitano or something before?
GG said:
It's a name given by Alex Kitic to a circuit which uses shunt feedback around the output stage between anode and control grid, and operates the output valve in single ended fixed screen (pentode) mode. The shunt feedback lowers the input impedance of the output stage, so you need a driver stage capable of swinging some current, preferably with a high output impedance as well, as this makes the feedback more effective.
EDIT: Wasn't your diyAudio moniker gmilitano or something before?
planet10 said:
Do keep us posted. Simple is the way I like things. Were you planning to use the same iron from the console?
planet10 said:
I did not pay close attention to the speakers. The Fleetwood were 6 or 8", one was badly damaged, the other had a small hole in the cone so I did not pull them. The Viking were 6X9 stamped 3W max, but one was damaged, so I did not bother with them. There were also paper cone tweeters, three pairs that I pulled out. They do not look too exciting.
Gio.
GG said:
Will do... your find has inspired me to dig one out and at least trace the thing.
Even so -- worth pulling the singles... you nevr know when the opportubity to mate them will come... the alnico makes good fridge magnets on the damaged ones... feed me the numbers and maybe i can come up with some info for future reference.
dave
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