I'm glad that there are still persons like MartinQ on this world.
How I see it I indeed responded to CNX's request to give insight. And my insight being right or wrong was merely meant to start a discussion about and in the first response CNX accuses me of being irritated. Next I got accusation over accusation on things he seems more guilty of himself!
I would hook up his board and give measurement data if was so kind to send me a sample as any other manufacturer does that appreciates my insight. My insight being rather layout and component choice oriented than based upon math, something I grant him to be more talented in than me. From the information and pictures of the board only it is very hard to give proper insight.
Now I've pretty much had it with his commercially biased comments. Though I like this thread and apologize for the discussion with CNX to all other members because it is sure not a pretty read...
How I see it I indeed responded to CNX's request to give insight. And my insight being right or wrong was merely meant to start a discussion about and in the first response CNX accuses me of being irritated. Next I got accusation over accusation on things he seems more guilty of himself!
I would hook up his board and give measurement data if was so kind to send me a sample as any other manufacturer does that appreciates my insight. My insight being rather layout and component choice oriented than based upon math, something I grant him to be more talented in than me. From the information and pictures of the board only it is very hard to give proper insight.
Now I've pretty much had it with his commercially biased comments. Though I like this thread and apologize for the discussion with CNX to all other members because it is sure not a pretty read...
nice.
now i'm the bad guy here...
don't forget that you start with this sentence:
"To my opinion your previous design was flawed in many ways. I could point out a few if you like? These are based just on my visual evaluation of your board so don't pin me down on it. If there are things different in practise please kindly point them out.
"
which i considered a direct attack to my design, without having detailed knowledge about my design or even see one board: "From the information and pictures of the board only it is very hard to give proper insight" if you would know all this before, i would not say anything. why it wasn't one of the peoples who bought this board the one who said this, but was you, who have no board in your hands, and more important, and HERE READ CAREFULLY you made or participate at the design of a similar board which claim less performances, not fully assembled, and which is sold at a higher price.
peoples can judge by themself.
explain me what means this sentences:
i explain what i understand
1. Close up caps are either far away/non existent or very large for this purpose -- outside is raining but maybe snowing or even hot summer day.
2. I have a hard time believing the rectifier is large enough for the whole amp, or is it just a VN10/5V rectifier?
maybe too large or too small, or maybe need a heatsink or not
3. Many board traces are just 5mm or so? I would render that VERY undersized!
did you measured them ? did you calculate the current carry capability of them ?
4. Where are the rail to rail caps?
you still did't saw them ?
5. Far too small gate drive resistors. Of course depending on the fets, but for proper power they are too small.
calculate the average dissipated power on them
6. Traces from the power supply to the hi/lo side fets are not symmetrical, so the inductances are not equal.
and if they will be symetrical means that i do not need any caps close to the transistors ? are they simetrical on your board ? are they simetrical on the reference design board ?
7. Are you feeding the 5V with a switchmode PS?
should i use a 9V battery with a voltage regulator for this purpose ?
8.The distance from the LM2575HV SMPS to the input section and to the output FETs is a few millimeters?!?
42mm, i said before. how about your board ? it looks roughly 18mm from the output coils to the IC
9. Analogue feedback traces from the outputs pass under the main FETs?!?
can you show me how to do it with better results ???
10. Where are the FET current sense resistors?!? (The rather large 10mohm resistors...)
did you ever hear about Dale ? there are not less than 8 pcs on the backside of the board, 0R020, 2512
11. You use many cheap tantalum caps where other designs use nice low ESR high ripple and long life caps.
check the price for Epcos and AVX caps and price for ordinary caps with same value, same voltage. check also their specs.
now i'm the bad guy here...
don't forget that you start with this sentence:
"To my opinion your previous design was flawed in many ways. I could point out a few if you like? These are based just on my visual evaluation of your board so don't pin me down on it. If there are things different in practise please kindly point them out.
"
which i considered a direct attack to my design, without having detailed knowledge about my design or even see one board: "From the information and pictures of the board only it is very hard to give proper insight" if you would know all this before, i would not say anything. why it wasn't one of the peoples who bought this board the one who said this, but was you, who have no board in your hands, and more important, and HERE READ CAREFULLY you made or participate at the design of a similar board which claim less performances, not fully assembled, and which is sold at a higher price.
peoples can judge by themself.
explain me what means this sentences:
i explain what i understand
1. Close up caps are either far away/non existent or very large for this purpose -- outside is raining but maybe snowing or even hot summer day.
2. I have a hard time believing the rectifier is large enough for the whole amp, or is it just a VN10/5V rectifier?
maybe too large or too small, or maybe need a heatsink or not
3. Many board traces are just 5mm or so? I would render that VERY undersized!
did you measured them ? did you calculate the current carry capability of them ?
4. Where are the rail to rail caps?
you still did't saw them ?
5. Far too small gate drive resistors. Of course depending on the fets, but for proper power they are too small.
calculate the average dissipated power on them
6. Traces from the power supply to the hi/lo side fets are not symmetrical, so the inductances are not equal.
and if they will be symetrical means that i do not need any caps close to the transistors ? are they simetrical on your board ? are they simetrical on the reference design board ?
7. Are you feeding the 5V with a switchmode PS?
should i use a 9V battery with a voltage regulator for this purpose ?
8.The distance from the LM2575HV SMPS to the input section and to the output FETs is a few millimeters?!?
42mm, i said before. how about your board ? it looks roughly 18mm from the output coils to the IC
9. Analogue feedback traces from the outputs pass under the main FETs?!?
can you show me how to do it with better results ???
10. Where are the FET current sense resistors?!? (The rather large 10mohm resistors...)
did you ever hear about Dale ? there are not less than 8 pcs on the backside of the board, 0R020, 2512
11. You use many cheap tantalum caps where other designs use nice low ESR high ripple and long life caps.
check the price for Epcos and AVX caps and price for ordinary caps with same value, same voltage. check also their specs.
Hey thanks for your explanations, that's all I asked basically!
This time with some less hostility as well, congratulations!
Thanks again!
This time with some less hostility as well, congratulations!
Thanks again!
why don't you just admit that you have no ideea about how is made, how is working and measured performances of this board, and all what you say is made on suppositions ?
don't forget that there are some peoples which have the board and can write their opinions. they write before, also, just read the thread from beggining.
just simply admit that you exagerate and we can stop spamming the thread.
don't forget that there are some peoples which have the board and can write their opinions. they write before, also, just read the thread from beggining.
just simply admit that you exagerate and we can stop spamming the thread.
I'm very happy with my version 1 of the connexelectronics TA3020 board, it has very low noise floor, runs cool and when I turn up the volume has no problems pushing out the watts. I just wish that it was available with balanced inputs right from the first version. I had to use a Rod Elliot ESP P87a balanced input board which are very good. Unfortunately, I choose to power it with the 41hz.com PS2-P-INV SMPS which has been very disappointing, very noisy, I had to change it with another board and the second one was just as bad. I ended up having to saw the 2 of them in half using one half from each. I'm still not happy with it. Might have to default to using a ESP P05 and a transformer.
You can see my TA3020 amp here:
http://minirig.org.au/2009/02/14/minirig-connexelectronics-tripath-ta3020/
I think it is very good value for money.
col.
You can see my TA3020 amp here:
http://minirig.org.au/2009/02/14/minirig-connexelectronics-tripath-ta3020/
I think it is very good value for money.
col.
cnx & v-bro - you will please treat each other with courtesy & respect as befits this forum. I see that you are both inciting each other.If you stop, I will clean up this thread. If not, then bin time.
I agree with you Col, the PS2-PS board is noisy. Even when used as pre regulator (as it is meant) it isn't very usable for the 5V supply. That's why I wondered about the SMPS supplies on the CNX's design, from what I understand from you they must perform quite well.
I'm still using a separate linear supply for the 5V and regulate simply by an LM317. I still find this works well enough actually.
PS2 is however good enough for the VN10 supply and provides excellent efficiency.
I'm still using a separate linear supply for the 5V and regulate simply by an LM317. I still find this works well enough actually.
PS2 is however good enough for the VN10 supply and provides excellent efficiency.
Iain McNeill, I actually see some useful information in some parts of the discussion and would find it a bit of a waste to see it all go. But whatever suits you and/or the community best...
Anyway, I just wanted to say that most designs including CNX's design are probably waaay better than the Tripath reference design. Board traces etc. are really very long and also not symmetrical on the reference board. Possibly meant to test the limits of the chip? Or they were just made in a haste due to limited funds just before they went bankrupt?
Anyway, I just wanted to say that most designs including CNX's design are probably waaay better than the Tripath reference design. Board traces etc. are really very long and also not symmetrical on the reference board. Possibly meant to test the limits of the chip? Or they were just made in a haste due to limited funds just before they went bankrupt?
TA3020 higher power ?
Is it possible to make TA3020 v3b give out more juice?
800-1200watts in to one channel in 4ohm chould be nice!
will you make an smps to use with TA3020 v3b
Thanks
Is it possible to make TA3020 v3b give out more juice?
800-1200watts in to one channel in 4ohm chould be nice!
will you make an smps to use with TA3020 v3b
Thanks
The supply voltage and board will be the limit. With the right fets you could theoretically reach such power levels....
Hi Wingman,
If you are inquiring about the ConnexElectronics TA3020 v3b you might want to ask in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134747
col.
Hi!
I need some info: how should Mute input behave? I found in a not working IC that it is not a simple input with pull-up resistor, but it is similar to a TTL output (!). With pull-down resistor of 1k the voltage is 2.4V, with 220 ohm it's 1V, and short-circuit current is more then 20 mA. Can it be normal in any cases? V5=4.8V only.
(I posted this question to an other topic before, but it is in a wrong group, thats why I copied here too.)
I need some info: how should Mute input behave? I found in a not working IC that it is not a simple input with pull-up resistor, but it is similar to a TTL output (!). With pull-down resistor of 1k the voltage is 2.4V, with 220 ohm it's 1V, and short-circuit current is more then 20 mA. Can it be normal in any cases? V5=4.8V only.
(I posted this question to an other topic before, but it is in a wrong group, thats why I copied here too.)
You scared me a little with that because I've been contemplating a pair of hypex 180 modules myself. I mean what kind of company nearly doubles prices in bad economic times?
From your website you've got the standard ST version which was and is still priced at 60 Euros. You must be looking at their high grade HG version and commenting on their price as an increase, when they too are the price they've always been.
So that's good news, right? Maybe we can have a group buy to save on shipping!
John
I'm confused again. Why didn't your commentary, testing and layout knowledge as displayed here send that noisy, broken design back to the drawing board? Isn't that how it works?
Hi Teflon,
I think the ConnexElectronic TA3020 is still much cheaper than the Hypex modules because it is a stereo amp, also the v2 has built in power supply:
http://connexelectronic.com/product...ducts_id/90?osCsid=6oqs0r1m14n94ijv1sjomcc773
col.
I think the ConnexElectronic TA3020 is still much cheaper than the Hypex modules because it is a stereo amp, also the v2 has built in power supply:
http://connexelectronic.com/product...ducts_id/90?osCsid=6oqs0r1m14n94ijv1sjomcc773
col.
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Hi Col,
Perhaps it is the cheapest, but that is an entirely different story, as again would be the juxtaposed value per dollar.
Bonjour,
John
Perhaps it is the cheapest, but that is an entirely different story, as again would be the juxtaposed value per dollar.
Bonjour,
John
.. But, are you sure you didn't confuse the HMUTE (pin 15) output of the TA3020 (that is thought to light up a LED when the Chip mutes) with the real MUTE input (pin 24)?
MUTE pin should be active high.. so connecting the pin to +5V should mute the chip.. usually this pin is tied to GND through a 1K resistor to keep the amplifier running...
Okay, it's been a long time now... Since I last posted here I have read numerous complaints on different forums about the TA3020 module from Connexelectronic.
A BIG turn on thump.
Hum.
Very high temperature.
Seems like it turned out I was not that far off with my suspicions...
For those who can read Dutch here's an example:
forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl • Toon onderwerp - Versterker met 3% kennis
The 41hz AMP7 can run with no heatsink while testing at reasonable high power and you won't even have the fets go warm....
No entendido! The PS2 is fine, but not for what he's been using it for. This is a pre-regulator! Meaning you regulate down the gross part with this high efficiency and cool running device. Then to regulate further and refine the voltage with a proper linear reg. Find another supply that can run on 90Vdc and regulate down to 10V without breaking sweat! This pre-reg is a beauty!
Yet again, it's NOT my design!!
A BIG turn on thump.
Hum.
Very high temperature.
Seems like it turned out I was not that far off with my suspicions...
For those who can read Dutch here's an example:
forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl • Toon onderwerp - Versterker met 3% kennis
The 41hz AMP7 can run with no heatsink while testing at reasonable high power and you won't even have the fets go warm....
No entendido! The PS2 is fine, but not for what he's been using it for. This is a pre-regulator! Meaning you regulate down the gross part with this high efficiency and cool running device. Then to regulate further and refine the voltage with a proper linear reg. Find another supply that can run on 90Vdc and regulate down to 10V without breaking sweat! This pre-reg is a beauty!
Yet again, it's NOT my design!!
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