The dtqwt lacked upper end detail, had a muffled midrange and the 10 inch woofers played to high frequencies.
Voices could clearly be heard through the them, bouncing from the back wall, moving them farther away from the wall didn't help.
Hanging a towel over them did help some, troels did have a mod putting felt over them.
Voices could clearly be heard through the them, bouncing from the back wall, moving them farther away from the wall didn't help.
Hanging a towel over them did help some, troels did have a mod putting felt over them.
Hi,
Kaffiman, well yes i see your point. The fact is i can't say for sure if i prefer 1 bigger driver or multiple smaller one: my experiments about this were done with 6,5" and a 10" and in this case i prefered the 10" alone.
That said the loudspeaker i liked the most ( until the next one) was a 2x12".
In my case i know a single 15" is the lower limit for me about bass ( i often feel frustrated by smaller diameter regarding low end perf).
B&W example have interest in that it is a record from a reputable company which invested in R&D ( i personnaly don't like B&W ref i've heard) and with engineer which should know what they are doing.
I suppose (hope) they evaluated that results in unsighted conditions (at least, i would expect them to do ABX or double ABX) or their results may be objectionable.
About the nature of the driver i must admit i'm more into the overall implementation and philosophy than in the details of innerworking. In other words i'm not sure if i'm able to tell difference of materials used in a driver ( one loudspeaker designer i met and which used me as a guinea pig was sure i was able to identify carbon fiber but i think he was transfering his own concerns...).
Intuitively i would say the difference ( between 1x18" and 2x12" ) could come from moving mass, overall rigidity and breakup area. But this is conjecture/ guess from my side.
Diyiggy, don't mix up ability to play loud and the way to use the system: it's not because you can play at 130db spl than you have to.
Size of system and room size may be an issue with multi horn system ( as they usually need a given distance to have wavefronts to merge coherently) not nescessarely with others design choices.
We already talked about that but the real issue i experienced with 'big drivers' is the placement wrt low end ( what happen below Schroeder freq, modal issue) but i've always found an usable location in the different rooms i had.
In my room (6,5x5,7 with sloped ceiling up to 3,8m -approx 130/140m3- with a leaky roof wrt to bass) 2 x single 15" is just enough for my own pref. It would not be bad to double number or even more.
Kaffiman, well yes i see your point. The fact is i can't say for sure if i prefer 1 bigger driver or multiple smaller one: my experiments about this were done with 6,5" and a 10" and in this case i prefered the 10" alone.
That said the loudspeaker i liked the most ( until the next one) was a 2x12".
In my case i know a single 15" is the lower limit for me about bass ( i often feel frustrated by smaller diameter regarding low end perf).
B&W example have interest in that it is a record from a reputable company which invested in R&D ( i personnaly don't like B&W ref i've heard) and with engineer which should know what they are doing.
I suppose (hope) they evaluated that results in unsighted conditions (at least, i would expect them to do ABX or double ABX) or their results may be objectionable.
About the nature of the driver i must admit i'm more into the overall implementation and philosophy than in the details of innerworking. In other words i'm not sure if i'm able to tell difference of materials used in a driver ( one loudspeaker designer i met and which used me as a guinea pig was sure i was able to identify carbon fiber but i think he was transfering his own concerns...).
Intuitively i would say the difference ( between 1x18" and 2x12" ) could come from moving mass, overall rigidity and breakup area. But this is conjecture/ guess from my side.
Diyiggy, don't mix up ability to play loud and the way to use the system: it's not because you can play at 130db spl than you have to.
Size of system and room size may be an issue with multi horn system ( as they usually need a given distance to have wavefronts to merge coherently) not nescessarely with others design choices.
We already talked about that but the real issue i experienced with 'big drivers' is the placement wrt low end ( what happen below Schroeder freq, modal issue) but i've always found an usable location in the different rooms i had.
In my room (6,5x5,7 with sloped ceiling up to 3,8m -approx 130/140m3- with a leaky roof wrt to bass) 2 x single 15" is just enough for my own pref. It would not be bad to double number or even more.
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I quite like the picture of the loudspeaker with the Massey Fergusson : look how it is an metal horn now with wheels, lol
! Btw, crazy what you say about meat, I knew already than the cows came from France (at least there genetic material) and they no longer ran in the pampa, but if we can not having good barbecue anymore here, that's a bit sad, uh !His new name : the Assado loudspeaker
( a meatic loudspeaker than flames !)Edit : at Krivium, I know that, but I'm also always sensible how the room is pressurized as an enthusiast at sealed bass system, too much of it can excite too much the room and makes a mask effect that is not only related to the spl level imo, and I don't listen to materials that has 130 db transcient peaks related to the average volume alas : too much few recording have this and I am flat based. But for sure I'd like to have a system with a 12" from 80 to 600 or 60 to 150/200 : Kartesian's or Faital PR320... while I'm not a big fan of paper but few exceptions (mixed as the aerogel I always liked the trade offs but not in bass area, more medium), a servo or two sub with metal 15" notched and EQed, why not
. My actual main systerm is not able than more 110 db peak which is not too bad due to the too much seen compressed reccordings.
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diyiggy :
Assado is a good name , but it will be a new identity for a short time. It's decided, I'll burn it down thanks to the good advice of those in the know. Of course it will light easy fire, lots of wood and flammable material inside.
Plus, it'll be easy to buy a cheap commercial speaker that will sound the same or better.
Why didn't I find out before ?
Assado is a good name
, but it will be a new identity for a short time. It's decided, I'll burn it down thanks to the good advice of those in the know. Of course it will light easy fire, lots of wood and flammable material inside.Plus, it'll be easy to buy a cheap commercial speaker that will sound the same or better.
Why didn't I find out before ?
I can see that I hurt your feelings when I shared the experience with my speakers.
The op asked about speakers made by troels, I shared my opinions.
Troels is like any other brand, he make them with his "sound" some like it, some don't.
You don't need to act like a butthurt millennial because your opinion aren't shared by everybody else.
The op asked about speakers made by troels, I shared my opinions.
Troels is like any other brand, he make them with his "sound" some like it, some don't.
You don't need to act like a butthurt millennial because your opinion aren't shared by everybody else.
His description ( TG) on the Acappela ( as well as the quoted statements) are inline with my own ( 'large baffle' 54cm) loudspeakers.
In fact with his description of the large JBL he inspired the Loudspeakers on and this review made me think he was honest in his description.
Never been convinced by smaller design's one ( i've heard loudspeakers based on same drivers of some of his and never found to agree/ not his speaker though and filter could break a design but still).
In fact with his description of the large JBL he inspired the Loudspeakers on and this review made me think he was honest in his description.
Never been convinced by smaller design's one ( i've heard loudspeakers based on same drivers of some of his and never found to agree/ not his speaker though and filter could break a design but still).
Maybe the best of two worlds are big toys in the low and controlled directivity or at least less 2Pi than dynamic speakers with horns in spitre of : Kalapamos! But two ways, I don't liker the two ways, there is always something wrong with them or you should listen to at very casual spl for a dinner, which is not what a hifi loudspeaker is made for.
If you dig, it's very surprising we don't see more established diy designers going classic three ways with an upper horn but also a mid to make the transition with the big bass (in my head big bass is 15" or 18" as I don't beleive a 21 " could be good enough due to a too large diameter of the cone for a classic voice coil.
TG use controlled directivity, sort of with the mix of the horn with its 1" compression driver but uses at the same time a large baffle everywherewith a classic cutt-of around 1200hz if I remember. Of course the monkey coffin is certainly a trade off for builders having not his good woodworking skill, pyramid shapes being difficult (saw and angles asks experience and concistency in the cuts).
I had hope to see him or TonyGee to make such a three way with the new good 1.5" drivers that pop ups at more democratic prices than the expensive BMS coaxials to have cut offs for home system as low as 700 hz with a 12" then a 15" or two in oposite cancelation on the sides... or why not with the plate amps the bass cabinet with low cut off (around 60 to 80 hz in the angles) far near the front wall with EQ
From my personal experience, I don't like big driver XOed near the tweeter in the 1500 / 2500 hz area, here I prefer something nearer of a 4" or 5"... while I am not against anything else that works to my ears. Not a rule writed on marble so ! while you have also ESL kits avaliable to go as low as 500 hz at ER audio... But ESL with dynamic drivers are always difficult to match.
If you dig, it's very surprising we don't see more established diy designers going classic three ways with an upper horn but also a mid to make the transition with the big bass (in my head big bass is 15" or 18" as I don't beleive a 21 " could be good enough due to a too large diameter of the cone for a classic voice coil.
TG use controlled directivity, sort of with the mix of the horn with its 1" compression driver but uses at the same time a large baffle everywherewith a classic cutt-of around 1200hz if I remember. Of course the monkey coffin is certainly a trade off for builders having not his good woodworking skill, pyramid shapes being difficult (saw and angles asks experience and concistency in the cuts).
I had hope to see him or TonyGee to make such a three way with the new good 1.5" drivers that pop ups at more democratic prices than the expensive BMS coaxials to have cut offs for home system as low as 700 hz with a 12" then a 15" or two in oposite cancelation on the sides... or why not with the plate amps the bass cabinet with low cut off (around 60 to 80 hz in the angles) far near the front wall with EQ
From my personal experience, I don't like big driver XOed near the tweeter in the 1500 / 2500 hz area, here I prefer something nearer of a 4" or 5"... while I am not against anything else that works to my ears. Not a rule writed on marble so ! while you have also ESL kits avaliable to go as low as 500 hz at ER audio... But ESL with dynamic drivers are always difficult to match.
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It is obvious that that was your intention, but you cannot achieve your sad commitment with me.
You can't hurt me even by saying the worst of outrages like you've done about DTQWTII cabinets.
This is not a club of ladies who play bridge, you have to document the risky (and so crazy!) Opinions, and you have refused to do so. In other words, if you are not a troll, your behavior is too similar. Try to mend your way, son, you are going in the wrong direction.
And all agree with you? I have not seen that, show me where is that post ...
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My intension was not to make anyone upset, I'm only being honest what I feel about his speakers, and maybe making the op a little wiser.
Remember that I also did build the dtqwt.
I've spent thousands of dollars on different diy kits and to my experience, diy is rarely worth the time and money, but it's is fun =) finding the few kits that actually sounds good is not easy for a beginner.
I haven't said anything bad about the dtqwt cabinets shown in the the picture above, the opposite, they look stunningly beautiful, really nice craftsmanship
Not everybody agree with me, of course not.
I should have said:
You don't need to act like a butthurt millennial because you don't like what i have to say
Remember that I also did build the dtqwt.
I've spent thousands of dollars on different diy kits and to my experience, diy is rarely worth the time and money, but it's is fun =) finding the few kits that actually sounds good is not easy for a beginner.
I haven't said anything bad about the dtqwt cabinets shown in the the picture above, the opposite, they look stunningly beautiful, really nice craftsmanship
Not everybody agree with me, of course not.
I should have said:
You don't need to act like a butthurt millennial because you don't like what i have to say
Here are the pictures of my dtqwt and other different builds
Minhembio.com - Hemma hos SHURE - DTQWT
Minhembio.com - Hemma hos SHURE - DTQWT
It's also that way I see the diy : as a hobby to learn and also by making if one can. Some spend the price of a house with this hobby... because it's not only about to have good sound. Some tweak their car or make little plane, it's not just about driving or flying.
If it was only about the best quality, TG would have not so many choices (still active I mean), it has certainly some design that are good for the monney and ther sound and some not so. What I find is DIY becomes more expensive than a second hand also some brandnew speaker sometimes. Clearly the plus of diy is more than just listen to his own hifi. I love that hobby and more than half of it is how to understand how it works and try to do better and save a little money. But I'm sure many don't care about spending money if they can, it's a hobby after all. But also exist certainly a ton of not so good kits and design but the proofness and pride of the guy that did it by himself and want also to share, which is a fantastic good thing, no ?
I'm sure both Sure and Academia are right. I still have heard some speaker that were good somewhere and bad elswhere, same exact model or different exceptations by the users and also personal way to listen the music and what they are waiting for of it at home !
I know for sure it's a difficulty having some musicians at home times to times... while they admire our perseverance they often think we are in the last drosophiles outrage if you see what I mean !
FWIW, my two cents... always valuable to have different opinions in a thread.
If it was only about the best quality, TG would have not so many choices (still active I mean), it has certainly some design that are good for the monney and ther sound and some not so. What I find is DIY becomes more expensive than a second hand also some brandnew speaker sometimes. Clearly the plus of diy is more than just listen to his own hifi. I love that hobby and more than half of it is how to understand how it works and try to do better and save a little money. But I'm sure many don't care about spending money if they can, it's a hobby after all. But also exist certainly a ton of not so good kits and design but the proofness and pride of the guy that did it by himself and want also to share, which is a fantastic good thing, no ?
I'm sure both Sure and Academia are right. I still have heard some speaker that were good somewhere and bad elswhere, same exact model or different exceptations by the users and also personal way to listen the music and what they are waiting for of it at home !
I know for sure it's a difficulty having some musicians at home times to times... while they admire our perseverance they often think we are in the last drosophiles outrage if you see what I mean !
FWIW, my two cents... always valuable to have different opinions in a thread.
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Affirming that the voices come out in the DTQWTII through the Eminence 2 x 10-inch rear speakers ...... And yes, anything can happen, it is enough to make the xovers connection wrong, forget to connect the JA8008, and many things more ....
I have fulfilled my intention, to make this critic work even minimally without solid foundations and force him to search and upload some information, although that does not confirm anything of the nonsense he has said.
Writing is easy, being consistent with what you write is something else.
I have fulfilled my intention, to make this critic work even minimally without solid foundations and force him to search and upload some information, although that does not confirm anything of the nonsense he has said.
Writing is easy, being consistent with what you write is something else.
There was nothing wrong with the x-overs, I even checked the values of all the components using a UNI-T UT610 LCR meter to make sure that no component was labeled wrong from the manufacturing.
I don't know what information it is that you want me to upload. A link to my own review? I already given you a link to my own construction of the speaker.
How do you feel that your dtqwt compete against store bought speakers?
I don't know what information it is that you want me to upload. A link to my own review? I already given you a link to my own construction of the speaker.
How do you feel that your dtqwt compete against store bought speakers?
Yes, I have seen it, and I share that a supertweeter adds an extra air in the sound stage, although it is not perceived as an increase in the response in the treble, after all, how many people can hear above, say, 18000 hz? That would be wonderful for me ...
Troels was kind enough to upload the design of a filter for the ST, I think I remember that it could be used with several makes / models, I even think I remember that there was an electrostatic.
On one occasion he read a very enlightening article by Tannoy about it. That's when they released their ST100 supertweeter.
I share again, although these speaker designs, whether single or double quarter wave, were originally designed by TG for low watt SET type amplifiers, 30+ watts help a lot on the bass. I use tube (unbeatable for me in mids / highs) PP amplifier with 38 Watts in UL. / 32 Watts in triode mode.
I also noticed that even though Troels promoted his DTQWTII (the one I built) as a "two-way with the addition of a subwoofer", the speaker range does not go below 40Hz with reasonable SPL. At least in the position that I should place them in my living room, well away from the front wall. I stated this in my comments to TG, and mentioned that I had experimented with bi-amping. 70 Watts of SS dedicated exclusively to the rear speakers made the difference in the "punch" ...
But finally (the wiring was somewhat complicated and difficult to hide) I opted (I am not too interested in rock music at this stage of my life) to build 2 X 18 "subwoofers and an 18 DB / octave crossover via DSP. The music of Organ and double basses sound wonderful.
I don't need more, I'm very satisfied with my current sound, although "never say never", gg)
Well, I'm not saying it was a bad sound, JBL Everest are fabulous speakers, I just wanted to relate my feeling of "too much air", probably attributable to the room, I think that in a large environment and with some acoustic treatment they can show off.
It has been a long time, nowadays, in a room of these small dimensions, surely the use of REW / DSP would change things a lot, I cannot know, I do not know anyone who has had that configuration, I am from the old school, but One thing is for sure, the amplification was the best !
Cheers
