Perhaps the YBDZ wouldn't be as bad if it were on a different PSU?!
Actually, I've found the stock inductors saturate with complex rock. The PSU helps for sure, but they're still crappy inductors.
Actually, I've found the stock inductors saturate with complex rock. The PSU helps for sure, but they're still crappy inductors.
Why? Sure3116 sounds good. Turn on pop is easy to resolve by turning volume down or first turn on amp then preamp.
Thank you for the review so I can vicariously enjoy the DUG PBTL before it is built! I have the PCB but no parts and no time. Don't forget that because it is a PBTL monoblock it can drive 2ohm loads up to 80w cleanly. Maybe a speaker that uses a bipole of two 4ohm drivers in parallel would benefit. Or some car audio apps. 2ohm DVC subs. Etc.
I am curious what would happen with Ybdz on linear ps and upgraded inductors now. I am about to order another pair of Ybdz to go with my second miniDSP.
No
Let me rephrase to make my statement clearer:
A 0.22uF / 250V X5R at 10VDC will be closer to 0.22uF than a 0.22uF / 16V X5R at 10VDC.
The 250V part will exhibit less change in capacitance as the % of applied to rated voltage is less.
10 / 16 = 62.5% of rated voltage
10 / 250 = 4% or rated voltage... Less change in capacitance.
Yes, I am glad we agree that when the capacitance becomes part of the gain equation there is a change in capacitance as a result of variations in applied voltage. This is where the distortion occurs. To minimize distortion we use a higher voltage rated cap so the variation is minimized.
Some people say they are able to hear even these small distortions and will not use any but NPO (COG) ceramics or not use ceramics at all.
But, IMHO, for bootstrap caps it is not that critical.
🙂
No LOL
In general higher voltage rated ceramic cap has higher capacitance loss at same voltage.
Quote from:
Temp and voltage variation of ceramic caps, or why your 4.7-uF part becomes 0.33 uF
Mark Fortunato - November 26, 2012
"A second interesting point is that, within a package size and ceramic type, the voltage rating of the capacitors seem often to have no effect. I would have expected that using a 25V-rated capacitor at 12V would have less variation than a 16V-rated capacitor under the same bias. Looking at the traces for X5Rs in the 1206 package, we see that the 6.3V-rated part does indeed perform better than its siblings with higher voltage ratings.
If we had looked over a broader range of capacitors, we would have found this behavior to be common. The sample set of capacitors that I was considering do not exhibit this behavior as much as the general population of ceramic capacitors."
To be honest I wasn't really expecting any substantial SQ improvement with the DUG board given almost identical PSU. Having realised some (most?) of the potential of the 3116 with the modding of the blue/black boards and favourable comparison with my Mini Aleph, I decided to build another 3116 to go in my OB system with the MA driver. The DUG board was the obvious choice to get the max out of the chip. Do I need dual mono or 80watts into 2ohm - for this application clearly not. The driver is only 85db so I do need reasonable power but this is countered by the 250hz 2nd order crossover.
So today I will put the DUG amp into my OB system. Simple enough - just have to adjust the relative gain of the main and sub amp on the miniDSP.
Input transformer is a nice upgrade, according to rhing.
That's about at the limitation. There's a few minor things that could be done on the boards that may not pay off to much.
That's about at the limitation. There's a few minor things that could be done on the boards that may not pay off to much.
Yep, left room to try transformer input. Waiting to see what people think of the Edcor ones, bit costly otherwise.
Yup, the better bass is for me one of the key features that makes the new Sure tp3110 better than any of my tpa3116 boards. (That, and the "blacker blacks" I believe I am (not) hearing.)
And I wonder if having all that on-board, close-to-chip OSCONs is what helps the bass so much?
Anyone know, is there a "clean" way to add several on-board, DC-coupling OSCONs to a tpa3116 board? What I envision is something like a mini-breadboard, just big enough to fit a row (say three or four) OSCONs right next to each other. I'd leave the leads on one cap long enough to go through the through holes in the (for example) YJBlue board.
In other words, something like a "three-in-one" (or "four-in-one") adapter for having multiple, parallel caps in place of just one.
I was also thinking I could just bend the leads of the caps and solder accordingly to achieve this goal. Then I'd glob the whole assembly in hot glue or something non-conductive to add structural support.
All components on YJblue can be chosen better, decoupling layout can be improved. If you compare drumsolo between modded YJblue and DUGpbtl you can notice difference decoupling layout in first contact of each stroke. That is just ~10mm closer to chip if decoupling ceramics are same values classII as on your modded YJblue.
BTW I can not compare just closer decoupling, for decoupling I have 100nF classI (voltage independent) on DUGboard and 10uF classII. As big elco's I have 2*2200uF KZH 35V per channel. Bass is better then with Oscons, so is treble in my opinion.
BTW I can not compare just closer decoupling, for decoupling I have 100nF classI (voltage independent) on DUGboard and 10uF classII. As big elco's I have 2*2200uF KZH 35V per channel. Bass is better then with Oscons, so is treble in my opinion.
Maybe its my ears I need to upgrade - well they are getting on a bit and have seen some abuse.
KZH - are they United Chemi-Con?
What PSU are you using?
From your detailed system description (and the very nice pic) I reckon your ES9023 DAC is a fairly major bottleneck. Upgrade that and perhaps amp differences will become more apparent - the DUG board does include the pin17 mod which was a substantial step up for me.
Chris the PSU might make them seem a bit more similar, too. It does some substantial things even on some of the crappier boards.
That being said, I think maybe abraxalito has somewhat of a point. Although I don't know the details of your DAC. I've got a festih with 1543's for whatever reason... well the PD one that's competitive with ML gear etc.
That being said, I think maybe abraxalito has somewhat of a point. Although I don't know the details of your DAC. I've got a festih with 1543's for whatever reason... well the PD one that's competitive with ML gear etc.
Well, I looked at the site and was totally confused by comparison of apples and oranges and bananas and pears.
So I went to the Murata site and found the graph function.
And compared some things.
Comparing apples to apples was not easy as it offered limited choices.
As it turns out I was not totally correct. (can't possibly say wrong 🙂 )
The graph on the right shows 0805 GRM series of 0.1uF of all 1.35mm thickness with 25V, 50V, and 100V parts.
Very interesting...This graph makes us both wrong. 🙂 (IMHO)
The graph on the left shows that (if you shift for equal start point) the thickness is of more importance for capacitance change than the voltage rating...all other things being equal.
I am glad to have had to look this up.
Thank you.
Doug
Attachments
Any thought on possibly upgrading the below components that are stock on the SURE TPA3116.
These are sufaced mounted, so it looks like an easy upgrade.
2 x fairchild/ vishay bridge rectifier
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/discretes/diodes-rectifiers/bridge-rectifiers/MB6S.html
3x Schottky Diodes & Rectifiers SHTKY DIODE 3A 60V
Mouser Electronics, Inc.==
These are sufaced mounted, so it looks like an easy upgrade.
2 x fairchild/ vishay bridge rectifier
https://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/discretes/diodes-rectifiers/bridge-rectifiers/MB6S.html
3x Schottky Diodes & Rectifiers SHTKY DIODE 3A 60V
Mouser Electronics, Inc.==
DACs! Well the DAC I used to compare this time is not the one I used before in earlier compares and probably not so good as the one in my OB system. My OB system has a Subbu DAC (9023) with dedicated low noise PSU linked via I2S to a Amanero USB interface. May be not top of the line but well respected boards in diyaudio. In perspective of the rest of my system I doubt it is the bottleneck tho maybe my lesser 9023 DAC would be.
I do have a 1543 DAC with PCM2707 USB interface, upgraded clock etc. I built some years back - good in its day tho I must admit I have never actually compared to the Subbu/Amanaero. I kinda see the ES9023 as the modern day 1543.