Member
Joined 2018
kokoriantz-San,
Thanks,
I don't want to expand bandwidth not too much.
Less heat, less noise and longing for a small level detail resolutions...
Those are important factors for me.
HILO
Thanks,
I don't want to expand bandwidth not too much.
Less heat, less noise and longing for a small level detail resolutions...
Those are important factors for me.
HILO
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Recommendations for a simple 2.0 board
Hello gang!
Long time lurker, but my very first post - I require some assistance, please.
I have been reading the thread posts left here over the past year and I am still very much little the wiser; I really respect how knowledgeable many of you are here! To be honest though, I am struggling. Much of the modding talk is going over my head.
I am in the throws of planing to build my first ever 2 channel active speaker project and I require some recommendations on which board to go for please. I am not interested in volume pots, or bluetooth modules. I am happy with a basic, hassle free out-of-the-box performer, with little to no mods required, if possible.
I came across one of the many useful posts made by FauxFrench which points out what to look for in a board, but I am yet to find one that ticks off everything on his recommended list.
I have a speaker design sorted, based on Scotts' Helium Micro’s.
The original Helium project uses 2x Dayton ND16 6ohm tweeter & 2x ND91 4ohm woofer, according to Scott this would be considered a 5ohm speaker. (See below)
There is also a variant on this design based on Dayton ND91 8ohm woofer, this would obviously push the impedance of the speaker higher. What ohm speaker/impedance would work best with the 2.0 TPA3116 ?
From my own research within this thread I found the Sanwu red has popped up a number of times with positive review.
I noticed that there is a 2 chip (PBTL) variant too, but would this be beneficial to me? My research shows not, unless 4ohm and under.
The only other contender that really struck me is the Yuan-Jing green.
Have I missed any other contenders, please?
Has anyone any thoughts to contribute?
I would be eternally grateful for any advice shared!
Hello gang!
Long time lurker, but my very first post - I require some assistance, please.
I have been reading the thread posts left here over the past year and I am still very much little the wiser; I really respect how knowledgeable many of you are here! To be honest though, I am struggling. Much of the modding talk is going over my head.
I am in the throws of planing to build my first ever 2 channel active speaker project and I require some recommendations on which board to go for please. I am not interested in volume pots, or bluetooth modules. I am happy with a basic, hassle free out-of-the-box performer, with little to no mods required, if possible.
I came across one of the many useful posts made by FauxFrench which points out what to look for in a board, but I am yet to find one that ticks off everything on his recommended list.
I have a speaker design sorted, based on Scotts' Helium Micro’s.
The original Helium project uses 2x Dayton ND16 6ohm tweeter & 2x ND91 4ohm woofer, according to Scott this would be considered a 5ohm speaker. (See below)
There is also a variant on this design based on Dayton ND91 8ohm woofer, this would obviously push the impedance of the speaker higher. What ohm speaker/impedance would work best with the 2.0 TPA3116 ?
From my own research within this thread I found the Sanwu red has popped up a number of times with positive review.
I noticed that there is a 2 chip (PBTL) variant too, but would this be beneficial to me? My research shows not, unless 4ohm and under.
The only other contender that really struck me is the Yuan-Jing green.
Have I missed any other contenders, please?
Has anyone any thoughts to contribute?
I would be eternally grateful for any advice shared!
Attachments
Some of the better boards I found on Ebay:
TPA3116D2 HIFI digital 2.0 two-channel stereo power amplifier finished board | eBay
Input capacitors ceramic, acceptable but not ideal. Output filter capacitors are foil, fine. Output chokes to 5A peak, OK. Heatsink good in size (single chip) but glued, acceptable. Decoupling capacitors 1000uF/35V “Nichicon” types, fine. Has potentiometer noise, small modification needed. Look for shop without shipping costs.
DC 10-25V TPA3116D2 HIFI Digital 2.0 Channel Stereo Amplifier Board 100W+100W | eBay
Input capacitors most likely ceramic, acceptable but not ideal. Output filter capacitors are foil, fine. Output chokes to 5A peak, OK. Heatsink good in size (dual chip) and fastened wit a screw, fine. Decoupling capacitors good in size and probably “Nichicon” types, voltage rating unknown, probably OK. Potentiometer noise?
2 Chip TPA3116 Dual 2 x 100W Deluxe Digital Audio High Power Amplifier Board | eBay
Input capacitors foil, fine. Output filter capacitors foil, fine. Output chokes toroidal and probably 7A peak, fine. Heatsinks fine in size, in particular for a double chip design, but glued, OK. Decoupling capacitors look like non-original Elna 2x680uF/35V, only acceptable. Potentiometer noise?
TPA3116D2 Digital Audio Amplifier Board 2-CH Large Power AMP DC 12-24V 2 * 100W | eBay
Input capacitors foil, fine. Output filter capacitors foil, fine. Output chokes toroidal and probably 7A peak, fine. Heatsinks fine in size, in particular for a double chip design, and fixed with a screw, fine. Decoupling capacitors look like “Nichicon/Rubycon” 4x470uF/35V, fine. Potentiometer noise?
TPA3116 Digital Class D Stereo Audio Power Amplifier Board DC 18-24V 50W * 2 | eBay
Input capacitors foil, fine. Output filter capacitors foil, fine. Output chokes probably 5A peak, OK. Heatsink small in size and glued (single chip), on the limit. Decoupling capacitors look like “Nichicon/Rubycon” 2x1000uF but only 25V rating!, not good. No potentiometer so less risk of noise.
More comments to follow................
TPA3116D2 HIFI digital 2.0 two-channel stereo power amplifier finished board | eBay
Input capacitors ceramic, acceptable but not ideal. Output filter capacitors are foil, fine. Output chokes to 5A peak, OK. Heatsink good in size (single chip) but glued, acceptable. Decoupling capacitors 1000uF/35V “Nichicon” types, fine. Has potentiometer noise, small modification needed. Look for shop without shipping costs.
DC 10-25V TPA3116D2 HIFI Digital 2.0 Channel Stereo Amplifier Board 100W+100W | eBay
Input capacitors most likely ceramic, acceptable but not ideal. Output filter capacitors are foil, fine. Output chokes to 5A peak, OK. Heatsink good in size (dual chip) and fastened wit a screw, fine. Decoupling capacitors good in size and probably “Nichicon” types, voltage rating unknown, probably OK. Potentiometer noise?
2 Chip TPA3116 Dual 2 x 100W Deluxe Digital Audio High Power Amplifier Board | eBay
Input capacitors foil, fine. Output filter capacitors foil, fine. Output chokes toroidal and probably 7A peak, fine. Heatsinks fine in size, in particular for a double chip design, but glued, OK. Decoupling capacitors look like non-original Elna 2x680uF/35V, only acceptable. Potentiometer noise?
TPA3116D2 Digital Audio Amplifier Board 2-CH Large Power AMP DC 12-24V 2 * 100W | eBay
Input capacitors foil, fine. Output filter capacitors foil, fine. Output chokes toroidal and probably 7A peak, fine. Heatsinks fine in size, in particular for a double chip design, and fixed with a screw, fine. Decoupling capacitors look like “Nichicon/Rubycon” 4x470uF/35V, fine. Potentiometer noise?
TPA3116 Digital Class D Stereo Audio Power Amplifier Board DC 18-24V 50W * 2 | eBay
Input capacitors foil, fine. Output filter capacitors foil, fine. Output chokes probably 5A peak, OK. Heatsink small in size and glued (single chip), on the limit. Decoupling capacitors look like “Nichicon/Rubycon” 2x1000uF but only 25V rating!, not good. No potentiometer so less risk of noise.
More comments to follow................
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The "Sanwu Red" seems OK: Foil capacitors for the input, foil capacitors for the output filter, 5A (peak) chokes for the output filter, good size heatsink (single chip) fixed with two screws, decoupling seems to be 4x470uF of very ordinary quality but the voltage rating I cannot see. No potentiometer so less risk of noise.
"Yuan Jing Green" I find is a strange order of priority: Very nice SAGAMI (or copy) chokes as the best. Good size heatsink (single chip) that can be removed, fine. Ceramic SMD capacitors (probably X7R type) for input and the output filter, much less impressive. Decoupling by two rather small red capacitors (apparently only 220uF/35V which is not a lot) of unknown make, on the limit only. Why combine very good chokes with an else seemingly ordinary design? (personal view)
TPA3116 is known for hiss stemming from high gain and sensitivity to a high impedance level at the input (often the potentiometer). Changing the gain requires manipulation of very small SMD resistors, which often requires the heatsink to be removed. If the heatsink is glued that is difficult. Alternatively, in particular with a potentiometer at the input, two 4K7 resistors added to terminal of the potentiometer can often solve the problem.
Really nice implementations exist, sometimes with the TPA3118 variant using cooling to the PCB. "The Doctor" has shown one (very small size) and "Allo.com" has at least one, but the price is significantly higher in both cases.
You have no real benefit from a double chip implementation unless your speaker impedance may be low. In case of doubt, it is a potential advantage and it doesn't bring any real disadvantage (a bit higher idle current consumption).
My logical preference is number four on the list above. However, I do not have this board and do not know if there are any hidden flaws. DOES ANYONE KNOW THIS BOARD?: TPA3116D2 Digital Audio Amplifier Board 2-CH Large Power AMP DC 12-24V 2 * 100W | eBay
"Yuan Jing Green" I find is a strange order of priority: Very nice SAGAMI (or copy) chokes as the best. Good size heatsink (single chip) that can be removed, fine. Ceramic SMD capacitors (probably X7R type) for input and the output filter, much less impressive. Decoupling by two rather small red capacitors (apparently only 220uF/35V which is not a lot) of unknown make, on the limit only. Why combine very good chokes with an else seemingly ordinary design? (personal view)
TPA3116 is known for hiss stemming from high gain and sensitivity to a high impedance level at the input (often the potentiometer). Changing the gain requires manipulation of very small SMD resistors, which often requires the heatsink to be removed. If the heatsink is glued that is difficult. Alternatively, in particular with a potentiometer at the input, two 4K7 resistors added to terminal of the potentiometer can often solve the problem.
Really nice implementations exist, sometimes with the TPA3118 variant using cooling to the PCB. "The Doctor" has shown one (very small size) and "Allo.com" has at least one, but the price is significantly higher in both cases.
You have no real benefit from a double chip implementation unless your speaker impedance may be low. In case of doubt, it is a potential advantage and it doesn't bring any real disadvantage (a bit higher idle current consumption).
My logical preference is number four on the list above. However, I do not have this board and do not know if there are any hidden flaws. DOES ANYONE KNOW THIS BOARD?: TPA3116D2 Digital Audio Amplifier Board 2-CH Large Power AMP DC 12-24V 2 * 100W | eBay
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That dual-chip board does look interesting. I just wonder about the thinking behind RCA and pot on the same side..
Both the RCAs and pot would be removed in my case, input soldered directly to input coupling caps, waste of material. But I wonder if there is a similar board without this useless and noise-catching confectionary.
Both the RCAs and pot would be removed in my case, input soldered directly to input coupling caps, waste of material. But I wonder if there is a similar board without this useless and noise-catching confectionary.
Thank you FauxFrench, I am ever so grateful for your help here. As I said previously, I have been trying to get to grips with & understand what all the terminology of components are and what they do, but for a complete new comer, it very quickly becomes quite confusing.
I appreciate the fact you have taken the time to talk me through a few boards and this has been most helpful! I too came to the same logical choice as yourself, regarding #4. It satisfies many of your aforementioned desirables that can be found on better boards. Also I have noticed a very similar variant to this board pop up before now & FauxFrench, I specifically noted you pass the comment "seems like a seriously designed board". Then I saw this, haha
BTW I took another look at the red Sanwu last image (upside-down) decoupling seems to be 4x470uF 50v to me.
I did actually see the implementation by "The Doctor" and I find it a marvel! I am a little confused as to how the module can output more power than what the TI data sheet seems to specify for the TPA3128D2 chip; Coupled with the noted absence of a heatsink (HOW?), I am completely unsure how the module manages it! This is really where I show myself up with my lack of understanding. That said I find it reassuring with the quality of parts that have been used and the design has been well thought out & handmade, I just don't think I can stretch to the €60 +shipping. It's a shame.
So back to reality with the black board XH-M590 I must say I do like this one, just wish there was some baseline hands-on experience with this.
I have to agree with Phofman, in my limited experience I also observe the pot & RCA's as "noise catching confectionary" (what a fantastic choice of words btw!). I am looking to integrate a vol pot & BT-module off-board, which will give me greater component & placement flexibility with my intended bespoke design. Plus it puts less responsibility on the board and less potential for more problems to rectify.
Im leaning towards the red Sanwu somewhat; Actually Phofman, I noticed it was you that championed this one. I know it's not an ideal component hotlist, but I really want to eliminate too much modding. I am such a novice! Sorry
Also before I leave you in peace... a question on the choice of woofer. The Dayton ND91 is a 30w RMS driver that comes in 4ohm & 8ohms. What option would work best with the chip in mind please?
I appreciate the fact you have taken the time to talk me through a few boards and this has been most helpful! I too came to the same logical choice as yourself, regarding #4. It satisfies many of your aforementioned desirables that can be found on better boards. Also I have noticed a very similar variant to this board pop up before now & FauxFrench, I specifically noted you pass the comment "seems like a seriously designed board". Then I saw this, haha
BTW I took another look at the red Sanwu last image (upside-down) decoupling seems to be 4x470uF 50v to me.
I did actually see the implementation by "The Doctor" and I find it a marvel! I am a little confused as to how the module can output more power than what the TI data sheet seems to specify for the TPA3128D2 chip; Coupled with the noted absence of a heatsink (HOW?), I am completely unsure how the module manages it! This is really where I show myself up with my lack of understanding. That said I find it reassuring with the quality of parts that have been used and the design has been well thought out & handmade, I just don't think I can stretch to the €60 +shipping. It's a shame.
So back to reality with the black board XH-M590 I must say I do like this one, just wish there was some baseline hands-on experience with this.
I have to agree with Phofman, in my limited experience I also observe the pot & RCA's as "noise catching confectionary" (what a fantastic choice of words btw!). I am looking to integrate a vol pot & BT-module off-board, which will give me greater component & placement flexibility with my intended bespoke design. Plus it puts less responsibility on the board and less potential for more problems to rectify.
Im leaning towards the red Sanwu somewhat; Actually Phofman, I noticed it was you that championed this one. I know it's not an ideal component hotlist, but I really want to eliminate too much modding. I am such a novice! Sorry
Also before I leave you in peace... a question on the choice of woofer. The Dayton ND91 is a 30w RMS driver that comes in 4ohm & 8ohms. What option would work best with the chip in mind please?
50V rating of the capacitors is fine.
For the red Sanwu board with 1 chip, I would go for 8 Ohm. Less current handling of the chip but also half the power compared to 4 Ohm. However, double power will leave you with only a slightly higher sound pressure. The advantage of 8 Ohm is you can use it with any amplifier and you leave a much better saturation margin for the filter chokes. Typically, the 8 Ohm THD is a bit better than the 4 Ohm THD.
So unless you need all the sound pressure you can get, take 8 Ohm.
Good luck with the project!
For the red Sanwu board with 1 chip, I would go for 8 Ohm. Less current handling of the chip but also half the power compared to 4 Ohm. However, double power will leave you with only a slightly higher sound pressure. The advantage of 8 Ohm is you can use it with any amplifier and you leave a much better saturation margin for the filter chokes. Typically, the 8 Ohm THD is a bit better than the 4 Ohm THD.
So unless you need all the sound pressure you can get, take 8 Ohm.
Good luck with the project!
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Ah thats interesting, I am so glad I asked that question, thank you! So 8 Ohms is recommended based purely on the 1 chip, 5a peak chokes aka (red Sawnu), correct? Would your ohm recommendation differ for the 2 chip 7a peak chokes (black XH-M590)?
Whist saturation of chokes does not sound good, what are the real-world consequences of this, component failure, sound degradation?
Hypothetically speaking if I was keen to try the black XH-M590 & I wanted to 'eliminate' the potentially noisy pot (that is to say remove it), would that be enough alone to recover from any potential hiss issues or would there be more alterations required? How possible/easy would pot removal be to achieve? Bearing in mind my entry level abilities
As you can see, I am not completely resigned to the easy route, especially if I can achieve a better board, with better components.
Whist saturation of chokes does not sound good, what are the real-world consequences of this, component failure, sound degradation?
Hypothetically speaking if I was keen to try the black XH-M590 & I wanted to 'eliminate' the potentially noisy pot (that is to say remove it), would that be enough alone to recover from any potential hiss issues or would there be more alterations required? How possible/easy would pot removal be to achieve? Bearing in mind my entry level abilities
As you can see, I am not completely resigned to the easy route, especially if I can achieve a better board, with better components.
Ah thats interesting, I am so glad I asked that question, thank you! So 8 Ohms is recommended based purely on the 1 chip, 5a peak chokes aka (red Sawnu), correct? Would your ohm recommendation differ for the 2 chip 7a peak chokes (black XH-M590)?
Whist saturation of chokes does not sound good, what are the real-world consequences of this, component failure, sound degradation?
Hypothetically speaking if I was keen to try the black XH-M590 & I wanted to 'eliminate' the potentially noisy pot (that is to say remove it), would that be enough alone to recover from any potential hiss issues or would there be more alterations required? How possible/easy would pot removal be to achieve? Bearing in mind my entry level abilities
As you can see, I am not completely resigned to the easy route, especially if I can achieve a better board, with better components.
If you should choose the XH-M590, I would argue that a well implemented PBTL (two-chip) TPA3116 amplifier has resources to drive speakers down below 2 Ohm and the toroidal chokes leave a further important saturation margin (output power goes with the square of the load current). I cannot find more suited to drive 4 Ohm speakers. Therefore, I would use that further design-capacity with 4 Ohm speakers because I else would end up in a situation like when wealthy persons buy a Ferrari to drive around in Tokyo with 40Km/h (as I recall the speed limit) - there is a clear lack of balance.
When the output chokes start saturating, it sounds bad. But worse, the chokes loose their inductance and become like short-circuits. Then, the output lines of the TPA3116 chip look more or less into the output filter capacitors. The carrier frequency is at 400KHz and the output filter capacitors have a very low impedance at 400KHz. The current limiter is invoked and the TPA3116 chip cuts off. If the protection of the TPA3116 works well, no components should be hurt - only your pride.
A volume potentiometer is in most cases nothing but a variable voltage divider at the amplifier input. That means if you turn the volume fully up, the full input signal is sent-on to the amplifier input like for the "red Sanwu" without a potentiometer. Then if you use a low impedance music source, you should have no hiss. Therefore you do not need to remove the potentiometer, just turn it fully up and use another potentiometer/electronic attenuator (in the source) as volume control. Removing a stereo potentiometer can be difficult with plated PCB holes.
Which to choose? If you like DIY audio, it will hardly be your last DIY amplifier. In less than two years you are likely to be working on something new and better. Until then, both these boards will give you satisfaction and some very useful experience for the future.
We on the forum are likely still to be around for new questions.
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I had the XH-M590. Heatsink was only glued to the chip. No thermale paste.
Very thin pcb trace from tpa3116 to capacitor for the power part.
This problem is on almost all tpa3116 board. If you look at tas561x board or sta516 you have better copper trace for handling the current.
My XH-M590 had after first test one channel burned. Only tpa3116 board with smoking dead
LOL.
The red tpa3116 is nice for its money after some tests also with 2ohm loads.
I am also searching for the best dual tpa3116 board for as cheap as possible. I want to be able to put 8 4 and 2 ohm at the amplifier. So only PBTL is fine =)
I learned a few pages before...
Very thin pcb trace from tpa3116 to capacitor for the power part.
This problem is on almost all tpa3116 board. If you look at tas561x board or sta516 you have better copper trace for handling the current.
My XH-M590 had after first test one channel burned. Only tpa3116 board with smoking dead
LOL.
The red tpa3116 is nice for its money after some tests also with 2ohm loads.
I am also searching for the best dual tpa3116 board for as cheap as possible. I want to be able to put 8 4 and 2 ohm at the amplifier. So only PBTL is fine =)
I learned a few pages before...
Attachments
Hi
What are these black blocks beside the heat sink?
...So only PBTL is fine .........----> yes this is my idea tooo.....i ordered:
i want a ready amp...https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07KPSYHWF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
chris
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Ah thats interesting, I am so glad I asked that question, thank you! So 8 Ohms is recommended based purely on the 1 chip, 5a peak chokes aka (red Sawnu), correct? Would your ohm recommendation differ for the 2 chip 7a peak chokes (black XH-M590)?
Whist saturation of chokes does not sound good, what are the real-world consequences of this, component failure, sound degradation?
Hypothetically speaking if I was keen to try the black XH-M590 & I wanted to 'eliminate' the potentially noisy pot (that is to say remove it), would that be enough alone to recover from any potential hiss issues or would there be more alterations required? How possible/easy would pot removal be to achieve? Bearing in mind my entry level abilities
As you can see, I am not completely resigned to the easy route, especially if I can achieve a better board, with better components.
Be aware that the 4th amplifier described, which I find preferable, does not match the type "XH-M590". The third amplifier is the XH-M590 and that I find less good than the fourth amplifier. For the fourth amplifier, the heatsink is a single piece held in place by a screw. Futher, the power line decoupling is well defined (4x470uF) for the fourth board.
For the fourth amplifier board I have found no type designation. I tried to look for alternative sellers on AliExpress but found none.
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Sorry, I just looked at a photo of the rear side of the board and there is a marking "XH-M590". Total confusion. A different version of the XH-M590? Anyway, a better version it seems.
XH-M590 seems to come in 2 flavours. Big single rectangular caps or 2x cylinder electro lyrics either side of heatsink.
I have the same board as hansueli and also same problem. It pulsed DC through one channel. ONLY after I pulled the heatsink off. I think the glue was too strong and I pulled a chip pad.
It worked up until then so advise DONT remove heatsink.! I was drawn to this board by the large foil output caps.
I just ordered this board
￡7.92 19%OFF | JINSHENGDA Amplifier TPA3116D2 50Wx2 Official Version Finished Stereo Digital Power Amplifier Board -R179 Drop Shipping
JINSHENGDA Amplifier TPA3116D2 50Wx2 Official Version Finished Stereo Digital Power Amplifier Board R179 Drop Shipping-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
Mainly because nearly all components are through hole, easy to work on.
I have the same board as hansueli and also same problem. It pulsed DC through one channel. ONLY after I pulled the heatsink off. I think the glue was too strong and I pulled a chip pad.
It worked up until then so advise DONT remove heatsink.! I was drawn to this board by the large foil output caps.
I just ordered this board
￡7.92 19%OFF | JINSHENGDA Amplifier TPA3116D2 50Wx2 Official Version Finished Stereo Digital Power Amplifier Board -R179 Drop Shipping
JINSHENGDA Amplifier TPA3116D2 50Wx2 Official Version Finished Stereo Digital Power Amplifier Board R179 Drop Shipping-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
Mainly because nearly all components are through hole, easy to work on.
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I've used that module and was the best of the two TPA3116 I tried. No pot unlike the other (XH-M589) so very quiet with no hiss and sounds quite good. Not sure if it sounds better than the TA2024 Dayton DTA-1 or 2 but other TA2024 Sure Wondom version was full off hiss (no pot).
