MKII
Hi there Mpole,
I think the MK 2-3 are not that different, just the looks and the TA2020 IC ofcource!
The coupling caps they have exhanged for electrolyte caps, not a very wize choice in my opinion, a 2.2uF 100 volts or more has a much better dissipation factor rating so it will have a more clear sound than the electrolyts.
i can change those for 2.2uF 63 volts poly caps, already a big improvement.
Greetings,
Arjen Helder
Hi there Mpole,
I think the MK 2-3 are not that different, just the looks and the TA2020 IC ofcource!
The coupling caps they have exhanged for electrolyte caps, not a very wize choice in my opinion, a 2.2uF 100 volts or more has a much better dissipation factor rating so it will have a more clear sound than the electrolyts.
i can change those for 2.2uF 63 volts poly caps, already a big improvement.
Greetings,
Arjen Helder
Hey Arjen, so then is there one more Mod you figured out, I should be doing to the amp after I get it? am I right in thinking you still recommend one other change? (the input caps?) or did you do all the mods to my, you thought best be upgraded?
Whatever the case, I am really excited to hear what you've done. I really need to have quite accurate representation of my lower frequencies. 80hz and down, in my case, since my work is firmly founded in bass sounds. I don't need really powerful bass. just fairly accurate ;-)
If there is ever any other mod that you figure out, I hope you will keep me in the loop, and let me know about it. (in fact, if you have the parts for the mod, I would of course PayPal you the funds if you send me the part/s ...or I could order them from a trusted supplier.)
Best,
Jakeez (jay)
Whatever the case, I am really excited to hear what you've done. I really need to have quite accurate representation of my lower frequencies. 80hz and down, in my case, since my work is firmly founded in bass sounds. I don't need really powerful bass. just fairly accurate ;-)
If there is ever any other mod that you figure out, I hope you will keep me in the loop, and let me know about it. (in fact, if you have the parts for the mod, I would of course PayPal you the funds if you send me the part/s ...or I could order them from a trusted supplier.)
Best,
Jakeez (jay)
Topping caps
Dear fellow DIY'ers.
I have a rectification to make here,
Preveiously i stated that the nichion caps used in the Topping amp might be fake.
I have spend some time tonight to figgure out more about this and ive compared my measurements with the datasheet.
-First of all, i found that my LCR meter has some problems with measuring ESR. ive done some calibration and i found out that on one of the boards there is a faulty IC, the 1826-0089-1 from Harris ( if you got a spare, or know a replacement id be happy to hear it )
-The datasheet does not state a maximum for ESR rating
-The datasheet's dimensions are all in check
-The dissipation factor is according to spec
This type of cap is designed specially for audio use, and the datasheets information has been verified.
I will show again measurements as soon as i have repaired my LCR meter.
in the meantime, i still think using a nice big buffer cap is a perfect way to upgrade this amp, and also changing the audio grade input electrolyts for poly caps is good for the sound quality.
Greetings!
Arjen Helder
Dear fellow DIY'ers.
I have a rectification to make here,
Preveiously i stated that the nichion caps used in the Topping amp might be fake.
I have spend some time tonight to figgure out more about this and ive compared my measurements with the datasheet.
-First of all, i found that my LCR meter has some problems with measuring ESR. ive done some calibration and i found out that on one of the boards there is a faulty IC, the 1826-0089-1 from Harris ( if you got a spare, or know a replacement id be happy to hear it )
-The datasheet does not state a maximum for ESR rating
-The datasheet's dimensions are all in check
-The dissipation factor is according to spec
This type of cap is designed specially for audio use, and the datasheets information has been verified.
I will show again measurements as soon as i have repaired my LCR meter.
in the meantime, i still think using a nice big buffer cap is a perfect way to upgrade this amp, and also changing the audio grade input electrolyts for poly caps is good for the sound quality.
Greetings!
Arjen Helder
Re: MKII
Thanks for your sharing of all this information to use for those who have not bought it from you, i hope this thread encourages many to buy straight from you, fully fixed or amp+parts.
You mention the TA2020, when TP10 Mk2 and TP10 Mk3 both have a TA2024, the TA2020 is in the all new TP20 ("Mk1")
I asked the seller why the change of the input caps, all i was told was it was new and improved based on user feedback, i chose the Mk3 based on cosmetics and the space to change parts to my liking with through hole parts.
I didn't know at the time i'd get pro help doing so
Thanks again,
Daniel
ArjenShenzhen said:
Thanks for your sharing of all this information to use for those who have not bought it from you, i hope this thread encourages many to buy straight from you, fully fixed or amp+parts.
You mention the TA2020, when TP10 Mk2 and TP10 Mk3 both have a TA2024, the TA2020 is in the all new TP20 ("Mk1")
I asked the seller why the change of the input caps, all i was told was it was new and improved based on user feedback, i chose the Mk3 based on cosmetics and the space to change parts to my liking with through hole parts.
I didn't know at the time i'd get pro help doing so
Thanks again,
Daniel
Topping amps
Hi there Daniel,
Thanks, ofcource i like to look at these things, after all, its my hobby aswel!
Jakeez,
The modifications made can only make things better, Much better! the measurements made on the caps was not as preciese as i had hoped, but the fact remains, 220uF as the only buffering in a amplifier is not sufficient , ive measured voltage drops over the IC of around one volt at the peaks, this changes the sound of the amp and narrows the sound stage alittle, adding big buffer caps close to the IC solves that issue.
i will contact Topping and see if we can make a new design that includes bigger caps and also poly input capacitors.
The people at topping have nicely followed that datasheet with there model, the datasheet for the TA2020 states 220uF is enough and they have used the best caps in that value they could find, but i dont know how much measurements they have done on the design.
Ill let them know the ideas i have, who knows!
Greetings,
Arjen
Hi there Daniel,
Thanks, ofcource i like to look at these things, after all, its my hobby aswel!
Jakeez,
The modifications made can only make things better, Much better! the measurements made on the caps was not as preciese as i had hoped, but the fact remains, 220uF as the only buffering in a amplifier is not sufficient , ive measured voltage drops over the IC of around one volt at the peaks, this changes the sound of the amp and narrows the sound stage alittle, adding big buffer caps close to the IC solves that issue.
i will contact Topping and see if we can make a new design that includes bigger caps and also poly input capacitors.
The people at topping have nicely followed that datasheet with there model, the datasheet for the TA2020 states 220uF is enough and they have used the best caps in that value they could find, but i dont know how much measurements they have done on the design.
Ill let them know the ideas i have, who knows!
Greetings,
Arjen
Btw, think 2x 4700uF is enough of an increase, all i could get locally, i figured i try it out, could get upgrade later when i get other parts online, not just 2 caps.
2 Nichicon 4700uF 35V don't have much data on it.
Also when i hit Low ESR as filter on digikey.com under Poly caps, i come up empty, how much mOhm is considered low? (what's the upper limit so i can narrow it down while maintaining some choice, seems "Low ESR" as filter is something none are listed under, although filtering by say 5mOhm, i can get results)
Thanks,
Daniel
2 Nichicon 4700uF 35V don't have much data on it.
Also when i hit Low ESR as filter on digikey.com under Poly caps, i come up empty, how much mOhm is considered low? (what's the upper limit so i can narrow it down while maintaining some choice, seems "Low ESR" as filter is something none are listed under, although filtering by say 5mOhm, i can get results)
Thanks,
Daniel
Caps caps caps
Hi there Daniel,
If you want to know more about capacitors, there is a whole world before you !
Capacitors are made for many different applications and the there are many parameters.
- Capactiance ( Duh! )
- Dissipation factor ( or Delta tangent )
- ESR ( resistance inside the cap )
- Q factor ( Quality factor, related to ESR )
- Ripple Current Rating ( how much current at what frequncy )
- Dielectric Absorption ( insulation properties and loss )
- ESL or inductance of the cap ( because there wound caps also can have inductance refered to as parasitic inductance
As you can see there are allot of parameters! and to measure these is very difficult! you need special instruments to do this, ive only got an old HP LCR meter, good for ESR/Q/C/D the others i can also not measure but these things all matter when selecting caps for your project.
Buffer caps need a low ESR and high capacitance, 4700X 2 is plenty for the TA2020, no problem! buffer caps are alwais Electrolyts.
Poly caps i have used as signal input caps because there Dissipation factor ( read delay in sound) is much lower resulting in a more clear sound. the ESR is also very low, 0.1 Ohms is common. but for this use ESR is less important, because the power thrue the cap is very low.
Hope this explains more about caps!
Greetings.
Arjen
Hi there Daniel,
If you want to know more about capacitors, there is a whole world before you !
Capacitors are made for many different applications and the there are many parameters.
- Capactiance ( Duh! )
- Dissipation factor ( or Delta tangent )
- ESR ( resistance inside the cap )
- Q factor ( Quality factor, related to ESR )
- Ripple Current Rating ( how much current at what frequncy )
- Dielectric Absorption ( insulation properties and loss )
- ESL or inductance of the cap ( because there wound caps also can have inductance refered to as parasitic inductance
As you can see there are allot of parameters! and to measure these is very difficult! you need special instruments to do this, ive only got an old HP LCR meter, good for ESR/Q/C/D the others i can also not measure but these things all matter when selecting caps for your project.
Buffer caps need a low ESR and high capacitance, 4700X 2 is plenty for the TA2020, no problem! buffer caps are alwais Electrolyts.
Poly caps i have used as signal input caps because there Dissipation factor ( read delay in sound) is much lower resulting in a more clear sound. the ESR is also very low, 0.1 Ohms is common. but for this use ESR is less important, because the power thrue the cap is very low.
Hope this explains more about caps!
Greetings.
Arjen
My TP-10 MK2 has arrived.
I opened it for modification and I am surprised.
It has some differences on the caps, chip and pcb.
- The chip is not TA2024C. it is TA2024.
- There are two noname 1uf caps on the input line.
I want to change input coupling caps with solen 4.3 uf 400v but how can I do that in this situation?
I found the circuit design.
http://nice.kaze.com/tp-10-mk2_08.pdf
Thanks.
I opened it for modification and I am surprised.
It has some differences on the caps, chip and pcb.
- The chip is not TA2024C. it is TA2024.
- There are two noname 1uf caps on the input line.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I want to change input coupling caps with solen 4.3 uf 400v but how can I do that in this situation?
I found the circuit design.
http://nice.kaze.com/tp-10-mk2_08.pdf
Thanks.
Topping MKII
Hi there,
Looking at the Photo's the cap's are from Epcos, a good brand from Germany. its 1X 1 uF so in paralell there 2 uF, just what this IC needs for input.
i dont thiunk this is something to worry about, the reson to use 2 pieces is because they are cheaper than the 2.2uF version.
The difference on the PCB is that the 3.5mm Jack has been replaced by 2X RCA connector at the back side
and the TA2024 normally does not have the "C" marking on it, so im not sure why this supprises you. the TA2024 has just one version, and there are no fakes on the market, the copycat's dont have the knowledge to copy this IC.
Recommended upgrades for this board,
- Adding about 8000uF in caps, prefebly coupling smaller caps together
- Install a better potmeter, this one is rather cheap
- i prefer to use amber colored LED's, its much nicer to the eye.
Other than that, these input caps look okay and you can have a listen and see how it sounds.
its not very tidy of the seller to sell a product that is not the same as the photo, you might want to tell him to change that.
Greetings,
Arjen Helder
Hi there,
Looking at the Photo's the cap's are from Epcos, a good brand from Germany. its 1X 1 uF so in paralell there 2 uF, just what this IC needs for input.
i dont thiunk this is something to worry about, the reson to use 2 pieces is because they are cheaper than the 2.2uF version.
The difference on the PCB is that the 3.5mm Jack has been replaced by 2X RCA connector at the back side
and the TA2024 normally does not have the "C" marking on it, so im not sure why this supprises you. the TA2024 has just one version, and there are no fakes on the market, the copycat's dont have the knowledge to copy this IC.
Recommended upgrades for this board,
- Adding about 8000uF in caps, prefebly coupling smaller caps together
- Install a better potmeter, this one is rather cheap
- i prefer to use amber colored LED's, its much nicer to the eye.
Other than that, these input caps look okay and you can have a listen and see how it sounds.
its not very tidy of the seller to sell a product that is not the same as the photo, you might want to tell him to change that.
Greetings,
Arjen Helder
MKII
Hi there,
Yes, this is normal, as the traces in the PCB are not connected to anything, they act as atenna and receive any signal and amplify it, so thats normal. any amp with loose input wires will start humming.
Pay attention to ESD with this amp doh! make sure your not charged if you discharge over the input pins the IC will surly die!
i suggest you put the 2.2uF cap inplace and dont play with the PCB too much without caps in place since the voltage on the input pins can change fast and if its over 7 volts the IC will short internally and fail. ( im speaking in experiance! )
i think the caps used are quite good, but ill hook some up to my LCR meter as soon as my IC has been replaced.
Greetings!!
Arjen
Hi there,
Yes, this is normal, as the traces in the PCB are not connected to anything, they act as atenna and receive any signal and amplify it, so thats normal. any amp with loose input wires will start humming.
Pay attention to ESD with this amp doh! make sure your not charged if you discharge over the input pins the IC will surly die!
i suggest you put the 2.2uF cap inplace and dont play with the PCB too much without caps in place since the voltage on the input pins can change fast and if its over 7 volts the IC will short internally and fail. ( im speaking in experiance! )
i think the caps used are quite good, but ill hook some up to my LCR meter as soon as my IC has been replaced.
Greetings!!
Arjen
Thanks for the info Arjen.
I see the "C" mark, it stated "C" on version C. I am just surprised to see 2024 instead of 2024C.
I use the amp with 12V 7A battery. So, I think the buffer caps are not important anymore.
It sounds really great even without mod.
I will do the upgrades that recommended. But I have some question.
- 8000uf per channel or total? and will it (2000 or 6000) also add as paralel? If so, which one is better; one high capacity cap or a few paralel caps? and ýs it bad to use a high voltage value cap (like 400V, 800V)?
- Which model pot in Alps and which value? ( some trends audio ta10.1 users replaced the pot with 100k Alps, I don't know why)
I see the "C" mark, it stated "C" on version C. I am just surprised to see 2024 instead of 2024C.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I use the amp with 12V 7A battery. So, I think the buffer caps are not important anymore.
It sounds really great even without mod.
I will do the upgrades that recommended. But I have some question.
- 8000uf per channel or total? and will it (2000 or 6000) also add as paralel? If so, which one is better; one high capacity cap or a few paralel caps? and ýs it bad to use a high voltage value cap (like 400V, 800V)?
- Which model pot in Alps and which value? ( some trends audio ta10.1 users replaced the pot with 100k Alps, I don't know why)
Chinese speakers to use with 2024 or 2020?
Hi guys,
I already have a 2024 and have ordered a modded 2020 with Arjen. To further upgrade my set into the world of cheap but sound Chinese hifi I was wondering whether there are any good Chinese speakers you now of.
Especially bookshelve types, or FR (either DIY or commercial) might do.
Any suggestions on this or experience with cheap but good Chinese speakers?
Regards,
Jeroen
Hi guys,
I already have a 2024 and have ordered a modded 2020 with Arjen. To further upgrade my set into the world of cheap but sound Chinese hifi I was wondering whether there are any good Chinese speakers you now of.
Especially bookshelve types, or FR (either DIY or commercial) might do.
Any suggestions on this or experience with cheap but good Chinese speakers?
Regards,
Jeroen
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