Hi Vic,
The tiny bearing should allow to avoid the string twisting torsion as it should turn the 2 strings knot of the same amount as the thrust box does turn. Also keep the one point hoist the same as it is now which is paramount to this design. But good and congratulation if you find a way out already with your latest parts.
Rgds
Adelmo
The tiny bearing should allow to avoid the string twisting torsion as it should turn the 2 strings knot of the same amount as the thrust box does turn. Also keep the one point hoist the same as it is now which is paramount to this design. But good and congratulation if you find a way out already with your latest parts.
Rgds
Adelmo
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Seeing that thick pad on the turntable - are you Victor Angelo - if not you must share his sensibilities.
I use one of those thick pads that I bought from Victor - he sent me some scraps which I use under my tonearm support. Have to admit I removed the points since I could never get my records to lay flat against them; I think I am getting most of the benefit of the idea.
Using the basis of the LENCO L75 - the platter and the idler arm are all that remains - the thick pad makes a big difference with idler drive.
You work fast - I hope the best for your new version. I selfishly hope to gain from it!
You arm seems to have lots of WHEATON Triplanar DNA - in that it looks very complex.
Take care,
I use one of those thick pads that I bought from Victor - he sent me some scraps which I use under my tonearm support. Have to admit I removed the points since I could never get my records to lay flat against them; I think I am getting most of the benefit of the idea.
Using the basis of the LENCO L75 - the platter and the idler arm are all that remains - the thick pad makes a big difference with idler drive.
You work fast - I hope the best for your new version. I selfishly hope to gain from it!
You arm seems to have lots of WHEATON Triplanar DNA - in that it looks very complex.
Take care,
Hi Rick....yah...its me!
Have to admit, some of my records would not lie flat on the points either, so I removed the middle 3. Seems dont need them as the record has plenty of support.....works good now.
The arm did not start complicated, but as I discovered deficiencies, I would modify to correct, so bits get added on. After I lived with the mod I would also remake the part again more simply, but to perform in the same way. All part of the journey!
Cheers
Vic
Have to admit, some of my records would not lie flat on the points either, so I removed the middle 3. Seems dont need them as the record has plenty of support.....works good now.
The arm did not start complicated, but as I discovered deficiencies, I would modify to correct, so bits get added on. After I lived with the mod I would also remake the part again more simply, but to perform in the same way. All part of the journey!
Cheers
Vic
Adelmo, I cant quite envisage what you mean....perhaps because my 'hoists' are not hoists, but gantries where the string remains fixed. All the tensioning is done on the thrust box with guitar tuners....
Hi Vic,
Sorry for my poor English.
I attach here below a sketch might help to explain my meaning:
In the top part of the strings you may use a tiny bearing with hole 1 mm, inside the bearing hole go through the 2 strings, the rest remain unchanged as you have now. The bearing should keep the single point of the 2 strings come out from the top, but also should allow a rotation hopeful equal to the thrust box rotation avoiding the string torsion you are fighting with. Perhaps the skating still there depending the geometry, but much less strings torsion if not zero.
Hope is clear
Best regards
Adelmo
Sorry for my poor English.
I attach here below a sketch might help to explain my meaning:
In the top part of the strings you may use a tiny bearing with hole 1 mm, inside the bearing hole go through the 2 strings, the rest remain unchanged as you have now. The bearing should keep the single point of the 2 strings come out from the top, but also should allow a rotation hopeful equal to the thrust box rotation avoiding the string torsion you are fighting with. Perhaps the skating still there depending the geometry, but much less strings torsion if not zero.
Hope is clear
Best regards
Adelmo
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I should have known it was you by the quality of the work and thinking. And if I did all of my doubts would have been assuaged.
Looking forward to seeing what you do.
For those unfamiliar with this fellow his treatise on developing his turntable is something all should be familiar with: https://www.trans-fi.com/p/from-lenco-to-salvation.html
The rest of his site is worth a good hour or so.
Looking forward to seeing what you do.
For those unfamiliar with this fellow his treatise on developing his turntable is something all should be familiar with: https://www.trans-fi.com/p/from-lenco-to-salvation.html
The rest of his site is worth a good hour or so.
I think your English sarebbe meglio che mio Italiano!
Clever idea with mini bearing.....but actually now I am using the tension from the string to sort my problem....and it works!
Ciao e Buon Anno!
Rick....I remember we spent a bit of time discussion your Lenco noise issue? In the end, turned out to be idler wheel. Happy days!
Cheers
Vic
Cheers
Vic
I am thinking.....I twisted the string anti-clockwise....so now it skates to the outer grooves. Do I need to use the antiskate?
Can't detect any significant stylus defection when playing record.
Can't detect any significant stylus defection when playing record.
I had thought you were completely satisfied with your linear tracking arm and this made me think it could not be you. I should have read your first post MUCH more carefully. And looked at the photographs even more carefully. I would have seen the answers to my questions. Too quick to comment syndrome.
Update for those interested in an underhung SUPA arm.....
I found some really small bearings on Amazon: 1.5mm bore x 4mm x 2mm. Actually, I found some even smaller 1mm bore, but I could hardly see them! 1.5 just about manageable. I redesigned the post and hook to house the bearing. Initially, I restrung the arm with the usual braided nylon using knots, but due to the wide angle it fouled the hole at the base of the bearing causing friction. Eventually I hit on the solution to use a jewellery eyelet to suspend the string. After a few trials and looking at the jewellery repair kit I had bought ages ago, I realised I no longer needed to use nylon braid as flexibility was not needed. The kit had some 0.3mm braided stainless steel cable with accompanying crimps. Turned out this worked really well, neat & tidy. I could cover the crimps with heat shrink so it looked real professional.
......and compared to the old arrangement:
So now the SUPA pivoted horizontally without the torsion the original fixed point arrangement caused. Also no variation of azimuth or VTF across the record. The steel cable is supple enough to negotiate the bends through the lower flex points, & wrap around the tuning pegs.
The whole point of this exercise was to allow me to use the UH Supa without anti-skate. Although the arm still has the tendency to skate inwards to the null, then back outwards, its a much gentler force. AFAIK all the commercial UH arms out there do not use anti-skate.
Listening trials were very positive. The arm has a slam & punch I have never experienced before in my analogue setup. There is a richness & clarity to the sound that makes listening compelling. Soundstage appears very wide & detailed with great focus & space around the instruments. Most of this stuff was present before, but now I also notice an extension in lower bass which rumbles the floor with deep bass notes. Not sure if its the steel cable or the lack of anti-skate that is responsible, but its most welcome as I am a bit of a bass-head! I am not experiencing any of the negatives usually associated with this type of geometry, so this is a keeper for me, and I think a successful outcome to this project. Will just sit back & enjoy it now!
Cheers
Vic
I found some really small bearings on Amazon: 1.5mm bore x 4mm x 2mm. Actually, I found some even smaller 1mm bore, but I could hardly see them! 1.5 just about manageable. I redesigned the post and hook to house the bearing. Initially, I restrung the arm with the usual braided nylon using knots, but due to the wide angle it fouled the hole at the base of the bearing causing friction. Eventually I hit on the solution to use a jewellery eyelet to suspend the string. After a few trials and looking at the jewellery repair kit I had bought ages ago, I realised I no longer needed to use nylon braid as flexibility was not needed. The kit had some 0.3mm braided stainless steel cable with accompanying crimps. Turned out this worked really well, neat & tidy. I could cover the crimps with heat shrink so it looked real professional.
......and compared to the old arrangement:
So now the SUPA pivoted horizontally without the torsion the original fixed point arrangement caused. Also no variation of azimuth or VTF across the record. The steel cable is supple enough to negotiate the bends through the lower flex points, & wrap around the tuning pegs.
The whole point of this exercise was to allow me to use the UH Supa without anti-skate. Although the arm still has the tendency to skate inwards to the null, then back outwards, its a much gentler force. AFAIK all the commercial UH arms out there do not use anti-skate.
Listening trials were very positive. The arm has a slam & punch I have never experienced before in my analogue setup. There is a richness & clarity to the sound that makes listening compelling. Soundstage appears very wide & detailed with great focus & space around the instruments. Most of this stuff was present before, but now I also notice an extension in lower bass which rumbles the floor with deep bass notes. Not sure if its the steel cable or the lack of anti-skate that is responsible, but its most welcome as I am a bit of a bass-head! I am not experiencing any of the negatives usually associated with this type of geometry, so this is a keeper for me, and I think a successful outcome to this project. Will just sit back & enjoy it now!
Cheers
Vic
Hi,
I made a tweak to my Supatrac clone as follow:
1) using a tiny ceramic bearing at the hoist point. The rotation avoid hoist twisting and make more even the bias control
2) I replaced the 2 strings with a this carbon fibre blade. This was more complex to be made as require more precision of the tiny blades.
My TA 12 inch, though I am not using in UH, works well and at the present I am using it without anti skating.
The bearing improved my anti skating setting and I do not hear any chattering or other problem. For me is a no way back.
The CF blade I cannot say is better or worse comparing to the 2 hoist strings, Theory said that blades have some short comings since deviate a bit from the Supatrac original concept and may introduce in the vertical motion and extra moment. However I have to say that the combined mods in my clones have more advantage than the theoretical short comings.
How it sound: well I avoid to comment it as it is a too complex issue with too many variables and personal taste opinion.
I can say that in my modest rig and with my ears seems a more detailed sound, but also more tiring to listen.
Best regards
Adelmo
I made a tweak to my Supatrac clone as follow:
1) using a tiny ceramic bearing at the hoist point. The rotation avoid hoist twisting and make more even the bias control
2) I replaced the 2 strings with a this carbon fibre blade. This was more complex to be made as require more precision of the tiny blades.
My TA 12 inch, though I am not using in UH, works well and at the present I am using it without anti skating.
The bearing improved my anti skating setting and I do not hear any chattering or other problem. For me is a no way back.
The CF blade I cannot say is better or worse comparing to the 2 hoist strings, Theory said that blades have some short comings since deviate a bit from the Supatrac original concept and may introduce in the vertical motion and extra moment. However I have to say that the combined mods in my clones have more advantage than the theoretical short comings.
How it sound: well I avoid to comment it as it is a too complex issue with too many variables and personal taste opinion.
I can say that in my modest rig and with my ears seems a more detailed sound, but also more tiring to listen.
Best regards
Adelmo