Without limiting there's no protection. The filter will not help you there, either, the slope is too shallow, that's less than 12dB/oct, that's one of the disadvantages of a serial xo. Simulate it.
The lightbulb will do a decent job in protecting and limiting.
yes that is exactly what it is - no rocket science, and easy to understand, for most of us
That's exactly the point!
You still can buy midrange driver. Or use some of the drivers like the Monacor KU-516.
You won't have much fun with that. The serial xo interacts with the other crossover and the distortion won't be removed, it just interacts in the non audible part. No protection either. That makes it futile for HiFi unfortunately.
The idea were to reduce unwanted TIM frequencies = distortion in HiFi speakers.
In the Leslie case there will be much more to remove - also effect that else would have been burned in the voice coil.
For me audio and playing music is an enjoyable hobby, but I think the tone here gets more and more unfriendly and disrespectfull.
In the Leslie case there will be much more to remove - also effect that else would have been burned in the voice coil.
For me audio and playing music is an enjoyable hobby, but I think the tone here gets more and more unfriendly and disrespectfull.
*This is a general opinion
For many years the world were flat, later it suddemly transformed to a globe. But all the mad scientits ´proved´ for many years that it actually were flat, until someone proved that is was not.
After so many years with audio electronics we are not even close to being able to measure the real distortion values of say an amp, or the ´sound quality´ in cables. And if just 1 meter of `suprer´ powercable will change anything in a HIFi system.
Would our ears have a better resolution than any high end equipment in the word?
If an amp really only had 0.00X % distortion, no one would ever be able to hear a difference between 2 amps with the same specs.
And it is a fact in physics that energy does not disappear. An unwanted signal / energy needs somewhere to be used/converted, was one of the few things I learned i school.
I may be a dumb redneck, but then be it. But I still try to talk to people that dont think the way I do, in a friendly tone. Sometimes they even could be right!
If you speak you can sometimes even things out, when you write you can not!
For many years the world were flat, later it suddemly transformed to a globe. But all the mad scientits ´proved´ for many years that it actually were flat, until someone proved that is was not.
After so many years with audio electronics we are not even close to being able to measure the real distortion values of say an amp, or the ´sound quality´ in cables. And if just 1 meter of `suprer´ powercable will change anything in a HIFi system.
Would our ears have a better resolution than any high end equipment in the word?
If an amp really only had 0.00X % distortion, no one would ever be able to hear a difference between 2 amps with the same specs.
And it is a fact in physics that energy does not disappear. An unwanted signal / energy needs somewhere to be used/converted, was one of the few things I learned i school.
I may be a dumb redneck, but then be it. But I still try to talk to people that dont think the way I do, in a friendly tone. Sometimes they even could be right!
If you speak you can sometimes even things out, when you write you can not!
I think what John Kreskovski implied is that in 70's it was fun because all designers were using simple tools and knowledge. Speaker design was more a black art than science. But it is a completely different case today...
Without improving their knowledge, designers of the past will look like idiots.
That's right, just as I said it before.
Again: The distortion of the speaker itself (the distortion of the chassis) will be emitted regardless of the filter because it is created in the driver itself and an electrical filter won't reduce it unless it's on the signal frequency itself - which would mean to lower the power/level. The clipping of the amp can't be removed with such a filter. To remove that distortion, you have to lower the power output below the clipping point, use a bigger amp which isn't clipping at the same power output or you have to limit the input.
The spectral distribution of the harmonics becomes lower the higher the harmonics are. That means, k2 and k3 - which are containing the most power - aren't touched by your filter at all. Plus, the filter slope isn't steep enough to reduce the load enough.
Why do you think that's the case? You are so ignorant, don't even read the answers with the solutions, that's disrespectful of you. See it from our side:
ADK: "The earth is flat"
ICG: "..but there's.."
ADK: "You just don't understand, it's just not like you think, you don't know sh!t."
ICG: "See, if you just.."
ADK: "I know, but I've known my whole life it's flat"
I've already told you the possible solutions. Just because you know x (i.e. how a filter works) doesn't mean you can apply it everywhere without knowing the circumstances. In this case, the distortion isn't created in the tweeter and you can't just take it and put it somewhere else like a box which stands in your way.
You don't have to believe me, measure it, simulate it, learn something. Google for clip in an amplifier or search for tweeter protection.
What I've wondered since I first saw the thread title is "What is TIM and how is it measured?"
Yes, I know it stands for Transient Intermodulation distortion, and was widely discussed as a "new measurement" in the 1970s - I recall reading about it in the late '70s in Audio Amateur and probably other audio-related magazines of the time.
I've seen very little mention of TIM here on DIYaudio. As far as it being an actual legitimate thing, I get the impression it's about a half step above PRAT.
Yes, I know it stands for Transient Intermodulation distortion, and was widely discussed as a "new measurement" in the 1970s - I recall reading about it in the late '70s in Audio Amateur and probably other audio-related magazines of the time.
I've seen very little mention of TIM here on DIYaudio. As far as it being an actual legitimate thing, I get the impression it's about a half step above PRAT.
Did you read the page I linked to? It has discussion of other drivers with limited bandwidth much like the original driver, but which are a lot more robust as far as power handling.
Hi Ben,
thank you - yes I have read that site many times. Leslies interest me a lot.
And I have allready bought an Adastra replacement driver, but it has a few more KHz in the top, and is reported to sound brighter and somewhat more harsh than the Jensen driver.
Regarding the measurement, TIM and other. "We do what we allways did", measure an amp with a 1 KHz sinewave and the wattage that gives the best results, which gives very nice figures, but say nothing about how much distortion the amp really is putting out. It must be in the low percentages, not fractiles of percentages, because then we would not be able to hear it at all.
In tube amps we accept 2 - 5% measurable distortion without any problems.
In general: I do of course read alle the reponses, but response that just state that what I think is nonse are not very helpfull at all.
thank you - yes I have read that site many times. Leslies interest me a lot.
And I have allready bought an Adastra replacement driver, but it has a few more KHz in the top, and is reported to sound brighter and somewhat more harsh than the Jensen driver.
Regarding the measurement, TIM and other. "We do what we allways did", measure an amp with a 1 KHz sinewave and the wattage that gives the best results, which gives very nice figures, but say nothing about how much distortion the amp really is putting out. It must be in the low percentages, not fractiles of percentages, because then we would not be able to hear it at all.
In tube amps we accept 2 - 5% measurable distortion without any problems.
In general: I do of course read alle the reponses, but response that just state that what I think is nonse are not very helpfull at all.
phase-Accurate
yes you may be right.
Take the example: We have a power amp generating TIM above and below 20 KHz. The complete signal is sent to the speaker. A speaker without this stage will have to convert the information above 20 KHz in the tweeter voicecoil, generating maybe not much, but some heat, and Peters idea were that it also generated some unwanted distortion in the tweeter. But it is correct that there is nothing to do about the TIM below 20 KHz at this stage of the chain.
Maybe being influenced by a very positive attitude to the man who designed some very interesting speakers at the time (Slave bas, TL, horns ...), I dont know if that is true. That was why I started this threath.
yes you may be right.
Take the example: We have a power amp generating TIM above and below 20 KHz. The complete signal is sent to the speaker. A speaker without this stage will have to convert the information above 20 KHz in the tweeter voicecoil, generating maybe not much, but some heat, and Peters idea were that it also generated some unwanted distortion in the tweeter. But it is correct that there is nothing to do about the TIM below 20 KHz at this stage of the chain.
Maybe being influenced by a very positive attitude to the man who designed some very interesting speakers at the time (Slave bas, TL, horns ...), I dont know if that is true. That was why I started this threath.
Hi,
Its is pointless trying to pontificate about a subject you don't understand.
Excuses like "its not my idea, it was posited by someone who knew what
they were doing", don't wash, he didn't. It is pretty much mainly nonsense
and if you think stating that fact is unhelpful, that how is to remain ignorant.
Stating something is nonsense is an invitation to put your brain in gear
and work out some simple facts that show it to be the case. If you can't
do that then all your comments are just self justifying opinionations.
Such an attitude makes you very highly likely to be dead wrong, not right.
And FWIW such incorrect opinions are very boring, and not remotely helpful
to anyone no matter how much you think they might be, so give it a rest.
rgds, sreten.
Its is pointless trying to pontificate about a subject you don't understand.
Excuses like "its not my idea, it was posited by someone who knew what
they were doing", don't wash, he didn't. It is pretty much mainly nonsense
and if you think stating that fact is unhelpful, that how is to remain ignorant.
Stating something is nonsense is an invitation to put your brain in gear
and work out some simple facts that show it to be the case. If you can't
do that then all your comments are just self justifying opinionations.
Such an attitude makes you very highly likely to be dead wrong, not right.
And FWIW such incorrect opinions are very boring, and not remotely helpful
to anyone no matter how much you think they might be, so give it a rest.
rgds, sreten.
I wonder why you keep reading nonsense, that is wast of your presicous time.
You even commented on my first post before I posted the schematic.
I dont state anywhere that I am right in my opinions, I just put the idea up for diskussion for knowledgeable people like you.
If you would help me understnading, you could have stated why I was wrong, not that everything i write is nonsense and indicating that I am a fool.
I never managed to understand people who use all their time to put down people with other opinions than their own.
I said i once before, but maybe it is hard to understand: FEEL FREE TO STAY OUT OF MY THREATS.
You even commented on my first post before I posted the schematic.
I dont state anywhere that I am right in my opinions, I just put the idea up for diskussion for knowledgeable people like you.
If you would help me understnading, you could have stated why I was wrong, not that everything i write is nonsense and indicating that I am a fool.
I never managed to understand people who use all their time to put down people with other opinions than their own.
I said i once before, but maybe it is hard to understand: FEEL FREE TO STAY OUT OF MY THREATS.
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