you are simply unaware of the facts around amir
trust amir if you want. Hes been proven a liar, dishonest and even incompetent with the gear he has.
Jude from head fi had to teach amir how to use the analyser. doubt you knew that. Its quite clear theres a lot you dont know about his circus
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So after an awful lot of wasted time and words discussing Amir’s website, which has absolutely nothing to do with the original post, how about getting back to the subject at hand. Namely, whether there are great sounding and not super expensive 2-way designs. And if so, then why go for 3-way.
But a lot that answer depends on things that have so far been barely discussed, although Andy19191 started to bring it up in Post #21. Namely, what is the size and acoustic signature of the listening room, where are the speakers going to be placed, and where is the listening position.
In a relatively small room a 2-way with a decent size mid-woofer can provide extremely satisfying listening. I know that from personal experience. And in that same room a 3-way with a 15” woofer might be just too much.
On the other hand, in a very large room that same 2-way might be too small and sound weak. Unable to produce enough sound power to create a satisfying result. A 3-way might be the best way to go.
So many times these discussions completely ignore the room and yet it really needs to be the starting point in every case.
But a lot that answer depends on things that have so far been barely discussed, although Andy19191 started to bring it up in Post #21. Namely, what is the size and acoustic signature of the listening room, where are the speakers going to be placed, and where is the listening position.
In a relatively small room a 2-way with a decent size mid-woofer can provide extremely satisfying listening. I know that from personal experience. And in that same room a 3-way with a 15” woofer might be just too much.
On the other hand, in a very large room that same 2-way might be too small and sound weak. Unable to produce enough sound power to create a satisfying result. A 3-way might be the best way to go.
So many times these discussions completely ignore the room and yet it really needs to be the starting point in every case.
well, size matters, on Amir all speakers that crossed the sea, the flagship is a Neumann wich goes low with a big bass driver !
Now will Brett will be louder at eating razor blades than a 15" is a perspective too I am looking forward to see in that way in spite of the usual opposit (a joke I can't resist, sorry)! Now do not forgett too Amir is the Van Gogh of loudspeakers system... a sorta one ear boy as he tests standalone units ! And I will not give a Topping even to my dog ! Poor sounding dac to me ! But that's a personal opinion. At least he tries to have a protocol to compare objectives datas, but it says very few but for nerds never going outside and buying only goods on the net.
for the op, a good trade off because the room importance, could be sats with a 6" + 1" or a 8" + 1" horned. Cut off around 80 hz to avoid risk at localising bass source. then for lower range, a sub with different placement according the room modes. Then as said trying to listen to a classic big 3 ways. Hifi are trade offs and the most important is the room.
In an average 30 square meter for instance in Europe, a classic 3 ways column with a 10" or 12" as bass foundation, a 5" to 6" in the mid then a tweeter is certainly good enough... after it is a matter of taste as said people ! BUT mostly it is important to listen with the ears, not the eyes.
Now will Brett will be louder at eating razor blades than a 15" is a perspective too I am looking forward to see in that way in spite of the usual opposit (a joke I can't resist, sorry)! Now do not forgett too Amir is the Van Gogh of loudspeakers system... a sorta one ear boy as he tests standalone units ! And I will not give a Topping even to my dog ! Poor sounding dac to me ! But that's a personal opinion. At least he tries to have a protocol to compare objectives datas, but it says very few but for nerds never going outside and buying only goods on the net.
for the op, a good trade off because the room importance, could be sats with a 6" + 1" or a 8" + 1" horned. Cut off around 80 hz to avoid risk at localising bass source. then for lower range, a sub with different placement according the room modes. Then as said trying to listen to a classic big 3 ways. Hifi are trade offs and the most important is the room.
In an average 30 square meter for instance in Europe, a classic 3 ways column with a 10" or 12" as bass foundation, a 5" to 6" in the mid then a tweeter is certainly good enough... after it is a matter of taste as said people ! BUT mostly it is important to listen with the ears, not the eyes.
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Would the OP please show us those great sounding non expensive 2-way speakers, please? Pretty please...
So I can stop making those exquisite sounding 4-way quite expensive speakers 🙂
So I can stop making those exquisite sounding 4-way quite expensive speakers 🙂
There sure are lots of 2-way speakers around, all compromise. This one seems ok, but lacks 'non-expensive' part.
https://en.pifferia.com/products/lals-classical-152-horn-speakers
https://en.pifferia.com/products/lals-classical-152-horn-speakers
La pas calmos, like we say here : https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Calpamos.pdf
but will it sounds good in a little room ? certainly not ! when you room is 15m² you tend to test always two ways little monitors... easier for Klippel too perhaps !
but will it sounds good in a little room ? certainly not ! when you room is 15m² you tend to test always two ways little monitors... easier for Klippel too perhaps !
From my limited experience,classic horns do not work well in small rooms if we take into acount the 2 ways topic ! You often want to liste a little far from them... Idem for big 15" sub à la Onken... it asks bigger room for me... Well, maybe the room modes each time I heard such systems maybe !
But I also know that such TAD systems above in a well treated studio room is what sound engineers work with...
But I also know that such TAD systems above in a well treated studio room is what sound engineers work with...
... and pressurisation... it's certainly a mix in the low end. but yes definitly dropping power response from bass to trebles.
Big deal. Everyone has to learn how to use gear from someone, even if it's just the person who wrote the manual - and I say this as someone who has developed test equipment and written the manuals for them. Nevertheless, I'm not seeing you present any evidence of wrongdoing beyond your libelling of him.
And yet you've provided no evidence of such. Such claims as you're making should be readily verifiable.
this would be a departure from High fidelity but...
1) How about having a 2.5 way having a port + and with lower woofer having minor bump at lower frequecies to give somewhat pseudo bass ?
2) anyone has articles/information where room size and multiway speaker low end requirements/measurements are given.
thanks and regards
1) How about having a 2.5 way having a port + and with lower woofer having minor bump at lower frequecies to give somewhat pseudo bass ?
2) anyone has articles/information where room size and multiway speaker low end requirements/measurements are given.
thanks and regards
1) 2.5 way is a neat configuration which is good to work with. It's easy to cross and easy to tweak. It doesn't suffer from the midrange narrowing of other dual woofer systems. What you propose has been done before.
2)People sometimes equate speaker size with room size, but it's complicated. At mid and higher frequencies it can be an advantage to use larger speakers in a smaller room.
For bass, if you have a multiple sub system then you have a level of control which is important.
2)People sometimes equate speaker size with room size, but it's complicated. At mid and higher frequencies it can be an advantage to use larger speakers in a smaller room.
For bass, if you have a multiple sub system then you have a level of control which is important.
2.5 way is a compromise I don't like as you still have the bass in the midrange driver.
3.5 way, anyone? 😉
Still, each woofer in a different box in a 2.5 way is interesting, but tricky. You'd need to plan it properly so you don't lose the dual woofer advantage at low frequencies, and watch their relative phase.
Still, each woofer in a different box in a 2.5 way is interesting, but tricky. You'd need to plan it properly so you don't lose the dual woofer advantage at low frequencies, and watch their relative phase.
Yep but some people think even that is a compromise on a "proper" 4-Way system.
With amps and digital XOs being so cheap these days even a 4-Way isn't as complicated as a passive 2-Way was a dozen years ago; at least for me and speaking as a dilettante.
I could see that, especially when done without measurements. That said, I use the same process for either kind of crossover. The longer you spend working on the crossover on your computer, measuring your speakers and room and crunching curves, the less difference there becomes between soldering and programming.
I'd love to, but that's not possible unless I either build them or buy them. The purpose of this thread is to understand the tradeoffs and benefits of 2-way vs. 3-way so that I can make a well-informed decision on what to build (and whether it makes sense to build, i. e. whether I can make something better than Genelecs or KEFs in the same budget).
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One that I've heard (and consider buying if nothing better comes up) is KEF LS 50 Meta.
Genelec 8030C is another contender. I haven't heard it, but it measures as good or a little better while costing the same or a little cheaper.
I'm sure your 4-ways are better objectively and subjectively! But how much do they cost per pair?
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At mid and high frequencies our two ears and a brain is to some extent able to perceive the sound source and room response separately. This is why a voice is recognisably the same in acoustically very different rooms. The characteristics of the speaker in terms of radiation pattern, resonance and (sometimes) distortion becomes important and is why most speakers sound different. At low frequencies our ears are too close together w.r.t. the sound wavelength leading to the brain receiving the same signal from the two ears and largely losing the ability to separate room and source. So the typically tens of dB of room boom at some frequencies and to a lesser extent the dips at others is what we perceive. Without controlling the low frequency room response a speaker with a flat frequency response down to 20 Hz is almost certainly not going to be the least worst option.