DAC with Z-Foil as "0.01% VAR Bulk Metal® Foil resistors from Vishay Foil Resistors" since years and cost not 100K as about 1/10 😉
Some reported about R2R DAC's, first to burn in and heat up before use. IMHO it requires moisture/dust protection and heating as an OXCO but at lower temperature. Also the re-calibration with required equipment is for me opened/in question..
Hp
I wonder what's the use of having ultra low noise Z-foil resistors in this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
A possible problem with such measurements as we sometimes see, is that they don't contain phase (or crest factor) information. Noise may appear as smooth and continuous in terms of amplitude versus frequency in a spectral view, but that's not to say we a priori know that none of the noise looks anything like popcorn noise in the time domain. For one thing, something has to account for the sound of the tantalum nitride resistors and or the resistors that come installed on the DSD dac. They don't exactly sound like simple LF hiss or rumble, rather they sound like at least part of the their noise must look different in time domain as compared to most other resistors (which sound more like what one might tend to think of as kind of like random thermal noise with a 1/f frequency distribution).
That's my take on it at this point anyway; take subject to revision over time of course.
That's my take on it at this point anyway; take subject to revision over time of course.
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I have yet to see a resistor R2R dac which has so low distorsion, noise and non-linearities that it would be plausible to hear the noise of ultra low noise resistors. In sighted testing without A/B comparisons the most obvious explanation for sound differences in this case is figment of imagination.
Maybe we will get around to trying ultra-low noise resistors at some point, if somebody decides to pay for them. As far as the metal thin film resistors we have found, they are claimed by the manufacturer to be low noise but not ultra low noise. Also, they don't have any measurement based noise specifications.
I assume you missed the link in post #1580. That has noise measurements of also your Susumu RGs. Even the "regular" low noise resistors are so close to Johnson noise that hearing any difference in noise is not plausible.
Interesting Susumu may not see it exactly that way. RS series datasheet at: https://www.susumu.co.jp/common/pdf/n_catalog_partition23_en.pdf
RS series are described as "Audio thin film chip resistors"
They are claimed to have: "Improved low noise thin film character even further"
And: "Choice among the same resistance/size according to the user's sound preference"
IOW, they appear to be claiming an audible difference from the RG series based on noise...
At least that would seem to be the implication of the datasheet and the selection guide at: https://www.susumu.co.jp/usa/product/selection-guide.php
They describe RS as providing "Better Audio" on that page.
RS series are described as "Audio thin film chip resistors"
They are claimed to have: "Improved low noise thin film character even further"
And: "Choice among the same resistance/size according to the user's sound preference"
IOW, they appear to be claiming an audible difference from the RG series based on noise...
At least that would seem to be the implication of the datasheet and the selection guide at: https://www.susumu.co.jp/usa/product/selection-guide.php
They describe RS as providing "Better Audio" on that page.
Just started trying the Panasonic resistors. Sound better than Susumu RG. Bass is back, black level is better, etc. Will let them run for a day or two then reassess.
Have decided the Yageo resistors that came with the DSD dac are easily the best of any tried here. Will move on to trying Andrea's discrete differential to SE buffer next.
If anyone is interested in seeing my Lite DAC project, here it is (it is a French forum but you can Google translate it).
Complete Lite DAC
I still need to finish the PSU back panel and add the display in the front panel with power switch, but it is currently playing music. I just finish it and giving it a 48-72 hours burn-in to make sure everything is good to go before the main system reveal! 🙂
All the best!
Do
Complete Lite DAC
I still need to finish the PSU back panel and add the display in the front panel with power switch, but it is currently playing music. I just finish it and giving it a 48-72 hours burn-in to make sure everything is good to go before the main system reveal! 🙂
All the best!
Do
Great job - I’ve been waiting for this one, looking forward to your feedback.
Hi Mark
I find that DSD with tri-state logic topology sounds better than classic approach. In general, less harsh and artificial "too clean" sound...
I only compared 1bit tri-state and 32bit classic versions. Same I2S-DSD hardware used.
Did You maybe listened DSD with 3-state logic?
Hi Zoran,
Please clarify what you mean by "tri-state topology" in reference to a DSD dac. So far as I am aware its not a standard term of the art for DSD dacs.
Also, it would be helpful to know more about the dacs you are referring to such as whether they are commercial or diy?
Would also be helpful to know what the best "classic approach" DSD you tried is?
Lately what has been of interest in the forum and elsewhere is the RTZ FIRDAC type. There are also what might be termed "classic" DSD dacs that do not use a FIRDAC structure, just a single switch.
Thanks,
Mark
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Hi Do
look forward to hearing about your impressions. And for context please tell what DAC(s) you have been using or are familiar with?
3-state basically means that signal going into ENable input while the standard input is grounded or at Vcc potential.
Classic use will be signal at input and enabling by need, or constant enable.
.
Calssic DSD is standard 32-bit shift regster DSD dac as almost all in circulation... With 595 logic shift registers...
.
RTZ (return to zero) needs double speed Clocking system (2xBCK) to implement.
This is NON-CPLD-MC (non programmable IC approach.
(Also it is possible to achieve PCM to DSD transformation of digital signal WITHOUT software controlled ICs
Only by glue logic ICs...)
.
this is schematic for 3-state logic DSD 1bit I used and tested, I think moe than 5 years ago?
#1,030
without re-cklocking DSD data L-R lines, and without analog filter at the output, buffer and line transformer.
Logic only. It could be used with single 3-state units and buffered with BJT or JFET to drive R.
I am planning to multiply this circuit for 32bits.
.
There is a whole lot more to a dac than the output switching, although that will certainly affect the sound too.
What is the best commercial DSD dac you heard, Holo May?
What is the best classic diy DSD you have heard, Signalist DSC 1 or 2?
And where does this 'tri-state' sort of push-pull arrangement fit in? How do you clock it, regulate Vref, filter the output, do you use RTZ? Reason I ask is everything has some effect on the sound.
Also, what is it about the sound of the circuit in #1030 that you like? How would you describe it? Have you measured its linearity with signal level?
Regarding DSD dacs that use shift registers, that's to do the first part of the DSD noise filtering in hardware (which can have some significant advantages). Are you aware of all that?
What is the best commercial DSD dac you heard, Holo May?
What is the best classic diy DSD you have heard, Signalist DSC 1 or 2?
And where does this 'tri-state' sort of push-pull arrangement fit in? How do you clock it, regulate Vref, filter the output, do you use RTZ? Reason I ask is everything has some effect on the sound.
Also, what is it about the sound of the circuit in #1030 that you like? How would you describe it? Have you measured its linearity with signal level?
Regarding DSD dacs that use shift registers, that's to do the first part of the DSD noise filtering in hardware (which can have some significant advantages). Are you aware of all that?
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