The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator

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A VNA is not the right tool for that measurement. There are a handful of really good tools, most in the $30K+ range. With patience a DIY'er could build a test set that could do a good job when used with a soundcard. Ideally you would need two good oscillators with voltage controlled inputs (maybe Crystek?) two good mixers (Minicircuits would be good enough) and software (HPworks has the right capabilities). Still not cheap at probably $150-$250.

I own a good reference OCXO at 11.2896 MHz (see HCD attachment). As an alternative one can get a Morion double oven OCXO on eBay, but it's a 10 MHz oscillator Morion Double Oven Ultra Precision OCXO 2x10 12 MV89A | eBay

A double balanced diode mixer is only USD 20 always from eBay Watkins Johnson WJ M1A 3 1000 MHz SMA Mixer | eBay

Spectrum analyzer software and suitable soundcard have already been discussed.

If someone had the time to develop a suitable PCB for the Wenzel low cost phase noise measurement Low-Cost Phase Noise Measurement | (see attached Wenzel_Amp_PLL.pdf)

we could try to build a simple phase noise measurement system.
 

Attachments

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  • HCD_Phase Noise - 04.12.12.pdf
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  • Wenzel_Amp_PLL.pdf
    Wenzel_Amp_PLL.pdf
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I have done that already some years ago but never finished it to the point
that it was really usable. Without software integration etc.... Also I don't
stand with some design decisions I did at that time: non-bistable relays that
heat everything until the bias runs away, too much effort into the input stage
(many FETs in parallel) while a simpler dual version would bring much more.
Now with a E5052B in the next room at work there is no real need to
continue that...
With the 89441A in my own lab that can do the cross correlation that could
change, but not very soon.
That was also with a different CAD system than I use now.

regards, Gerhard.
 

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@GOR3:

Gerhard,
Have you had occasion to test the noise of these batteries? I believe their internal resistance is lower than NiCd cells.
Regards,
George

I have some unused A123Systems batteries (ANR26650M1A) and got curious about their noise level from reading here in the forums that batteries apparently were noisy.

So I connected them to my AD7760 evaluation board through a capacitor and compared the noise level with the basic noise level of the ADC with inputs shorted at different currents. FYI I've attached two screendumps - one of the ADC's intrinsic noise level (first one), and one of the A123 battery at 0.48 amps. I tried other lower currents but the differences basically were unmeasurable in this setup.

A couple of remarks on my measurement setup:

- It seems there's always a spike at ~6.4 kHz and the very low frequencies in general are influenced by noise except to a lesser degree when the ADC's inputs are shorted. I know - not perfect - but sufficiently informative for my uses (and wallet 😱).

- The setup is not capable of indicating - 200 dB noise levels so it can't ultimately show the actual noise of the battery.

Best regards,

Jesper
 

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  • A123_0_48A.jpg
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Last edited:
@GOR3:

- It seems there's always a spike at ~6.4 kHz and the very low frequencies in general are influenced by noise except to a lesser degree when the ADC's inputs are shorted. I know - not perfect - but sufficiently informative for my uses (and wallet 😱).

- The setup is not capable of indicating - 200 dB noise levels so it can't ultimately show the actual noise of the battery.

Build an ad797, ada4898-2 or LT1028 based preamp; that is cheap, delivers 1nV/sqrt Hz
and you can see the noise of a 60 Ohm resistor, another 1nV/sqrt Hz; that adds
geometrically and gives you a calibration line at 1.414 nV/sqrt Hz. No matter what your
ADC does, as long as the preamp noise dominates (enough gain). That is ultra-
convenient, I cannot repeat it often enough.

The 6.4KHz is probably a battery charger, energy saving lamp or some other
switching power supply. Hard to get rid of.

If your supplies are down to 1nV/sqrt Hz, they are extra class already. Most regulators
will be 40 dB above that, or even worse.
 
Gerhard- I'm a little confused by all the stuff going on on your board. I was thinking of laying out one myself but simpler- with the supplies, mixer, simple PLL (although it might work just to manually tune with a trimpot) and a low noise amp (probably LM49990 since its still the cheapest while we can get them). Your board has a lot of stuff on it for other tasks? I do not want to reinvent the wheel so borrowing or stealing good solutions where I can beats making lots of mistakes myself. I would make it for dip packaged DUT's just to be practical.
 
There is not that much on the board. Just look into Wenzel's paper. There are many switches
and they all have been replaced by relays with protective gas. They are also shielded.
Small loop areas mean small induced interference. One could shield the entire board.
The two fat black chips from Micrel are pin drivers with serial shift registers that allow setting
all the relays with just 3 signals: clock, serial data in and transfer to parallel register.
On the top left is a relay that switches the input between the dc in SMA and the ring mixer.
That is the box below, probably MiniCircuits SRA3-h because I had them. To the right of the
ring mixer is a RF low pass.

I wanted a differential amplifier for stability and to avoid selecting parts. The BD138 (?) transistor
and the green LED on the left is the tail current source. The differential input doubled the number
of JFETs, it took another doubling to make up for the two noise sources now in series, and then
I got only noisier FETs, so their population increased fast. There was a Cu bar between the
2 rows of FETs to force them somehow to a common temperature.
The small cermet trimmer is for balance. Cermet is bad, noise-wise, but was only a small
part of the drain resistors. The red and green foil capacitors as well as the 5 black bipolar
electrolytics implement the LF corners, below is an opamp to provide the loop gain with
the FETs.

On the bottom left is the tune output for the VCXO, there is an optional inverting stage
since the tuning direction is not standard among the VCXO types. Costs another relay.

Just right of the middle is another gain stage. The output coupling Cs are 5*22uF bipolar IIRC.
On the right are + and - 5V regulators and 2 output amplifiers for scope and spectrum analyzer.
That's all.

Probably everything would work just as well without all that JFET mess. But Enrico Rubiola
writes that he lost a costly microwave mixer when a supply voltage failed and his preamp
developed a lot of bias current. Should be checked, but then the MCL mixers are more
robust than the microwave stuff.
 
Last edited:
Gerhard- I'm a little confused by all the stuff going on on your board. I was thinking of laying out one myself but simpler- with the supplies, mixer, simple PLL (although it might work just to manually tune with a trimpot) and a low noise amp (probably LM49990 since its still the cheapest while we can get them). Your board has a lot of stuff on it for other tasks? I do not want to reinvent the wheel so borrowing or stealing good solutions where I can beats making lots of mistakes myself. I would make it for dip packaged DUT's just to be practical.

Demian,

if you are planning to design a PCB for the Wenzel circuit, please count me for some pcs.
I will be pleased to give my contribution for the PCB setup cost.

Andrea
 
Interest List SC-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 3 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- Acko: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- iancanada: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- Clsidxxl: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- lindamar: 1 x 11.2896 MHz 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * tagheuer: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- palmito: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- damohpi: 2x 11.2896 Mhz
- Naimster: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz
- Phi: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz (Added title )
- ambrosia168: 3 x 11.2896 MHz + 3 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * flowerpot: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board + 2 x DIL
- jdlvfr: 3 x 11.2896 Mhz
- tods: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- wlowes: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * fralippo: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + PCBs
- * duster1: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz + 1 x 98.304MHz + PCBs
- deanoUK: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * BDL: 1 x 22.5792 MHz
- * vita : 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- Malvin: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- rlim: 1 x 22.5792MHz + 1 x 24.576MHz
- Canvas: 1 x 11.2896 MHz + 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * mcluxun: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- grzegrzol: 2x 11.2896 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * jims: 1 x 11.2696 Mhz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * madkid 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * tbrowne 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Stijn001: 1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz

Second batch AT-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 2 x 6.1440 MHz + 2 x 12.2880 MHz + 1 x 16.9344 MHz
- Miklos: 1 x 16.9344 MHz
- Marlowe: 3 x 16.9344Mhz + 3 x 25MHz
- carz 1x 27MHz
- 1audio : 1X6.1440MHz
- * mravinsky : 2 x 16.9344Mhz + (2 x TWCMC-C XO board +1 x daughter board) if possible
- * noizas : 2 x 16.9344 MHz
- randytsuch: 2x 25.0000 MHz
- casshan: 1 x 11.2896 MHz + 1 x 12.288 MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board
- Fabian85: 1x 16.9344 MHz, 2x PCB + 1x daughter board
- * duster1: 2 x 16.9344 MHz, 1 x 45.1584 MHz, 2 x PCB + 2 x daughter board
- * RollE2k: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2x PCB + 2x daughter board
- * shendrik: 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz
- babaudio : 4 x 22.5792 MHz + 4 x 24.576 MHz

- grzegrzol : 2 x 16.9344 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.574 MHz + 2 x 25 MHz 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 25.000 Mhz + 2 x PCB
- smanz:1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz, 1x TWTMC-D&D, + 2x TWTMC-C
- * jims: 1 x 6.1440 Mhz + 2 x 16.9344 MHz + 6x TWTMC-C +3x TWTMC-D&D + 6 x TWTMC-DIL
- * madkid 1 x 90.3168 MHz + 1 x 98.304MHz + 4 x PCBs
- * tbrowne 5 x 22.5792 MHz + 3 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- gentlevoice: 1 * 6.144 MHz
- Gunders: 5 * 24.576 MHz + 2*TWTMC-C
- alexiss: 2 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x TWTMC PCB boards[/QUOTE]
 
Build an ad797, ada4898-2 or LT1028 based preamp; that is cheap, delivers 1nV/sqrt Hz and you can see the noise of a 60 Ohm resistor, another 1nV/sqrt Hz; that adds geometrically and gives you a calibration line at 1.414 nV/sqrt Hz. No matter what your ADC does, as long as the preamp noise dominates (enough gain). That is ultra - convenient, I cannot repeat it often enough.

Hi Gerhard,

Thanks for the tip with the opamps - I would like to add though that if I were to build such a preamp your own 220 pV/sqrt Hz measurement preamp would also be interesting as well as Samuel Groner's design described in Linear Audio (vol 3). I suppose that in both cases things could get very quiet 🙄

And then, as I reckon most of you notice - Christmas is approaching, and taking a slight digression from the electronics/audio exchanges here I'd like to say you all a Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year ... :wave2:

Cheers,

Jesper
 
Demian,

if you are planning to design a PCB for the Wenzel circuit, please count me for some pcs.
I will be pleased to give my contribution for the PCB setup cost.

Andrea

Its been on my to-do list for some time. I need to review the Wenzel circuit and see what I figured I could dispense with if the application is very specific. Calibration will be the big hurdle. I have read and tried the Wenzel method but am not sure if I got it right at all. If I could get a way to go from FM modulation to phase noise or some way to add a specific known amount of noise it would be easier. Maybe something like this http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/MPD-2+.pdf with a known phase sensitivity could simplify the calibration.
 
Following on my earlier note this link outlines what is necessary Low-Cost Phase Noise Measurement | The Wenzel amplifier is interesting and very flexible and well suited to broad tasks for phase noise measurements but for the current task has more bells and whistles than we would need. We need to measure phase noise from 1 Hz to 100 KHz. Arguments on needs below 1 Hz would be very hard to support (and better measured as allen variance) and above 100 KHz would not be much different from the 10 KHz to 100 KHz band and unlikely to show up in any audio device.

What remains is a balanced mixer (I'm leaning toward these: http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/RPD-1+.pdf And this is a good background on why http://www.minicircuits.com/app/AN41-001.pdf a low noise amp (LME49990 is a low cost option right now) some low noise supply regulators to keep everyone isolated some buffers that will add isolation without adding significant phase noise (fast inverters) and a software application (HPW?) I'm hoping to fit it all in an expresspcb miniboard. I have some of the pieces already so it should not take a long time once I have some. However I'm prepping for CES so time is quite limited right now.
 
Update

I have just ordered PCBs and parts to test the Driscoll oscillator with AT-cut crystals and the oven for SC-cut crystals.

To test SC-cut crystals I have to collect all the orders from the members in the interested list. Then I will place the order to Laptech.

I would finalize the order to Laptech within 15-20 days, so I ask the members who have not yet sent me the order to do this as soon as possible:
Acko
iancanada
Clsidxxl
lindamar
palmito
damohpi
deanoUK
rlim
Marlowe
casshan
Fabian85

I'll send a reminder to the above members.

For some frequencies the MOQ has not yet reached, so if anyone was interested, please add yourself to the list and send me the order form. Also, members who are already in the list could increase their quantities to reach the MOQ.

Interest List SC-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 3 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- Acko: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- iancanada: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- Clsidxxl: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- lindamar: 1 x 11.2896 MHz 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * tagheuer: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- palmito: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- damohpi: 2x 11.2896 Mhz
- * Naimster: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz
- * Phi: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz (Added title )
- * ambrosia168: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * flowerpot: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board + 2 x DIL
- * jdlvfr: 3 x 11.2896 Mhz
- * fralippo: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + PCBs
- * duster1: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz + 1 x 98.304MHz + PCBs
- deanoUK: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * BDL: 1 x 22.5792 MHz
- * vita : 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Malvin: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- rlim: 1 x 22.5792MHz + 1 x 24.576MHz
- * Canvas: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 2 x DIL adapter
- * mcluxun: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * grzegrzol: 2x 11.2896 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * jims: 1 x 11.2696 Mhz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * madkid 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * tbrowne 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Stijn001: 1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * smanz:1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz,

Second batch AT-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 2 x 6.1440 MHz + 2 x 12.2880 MHz + 1 x 16.9344 MHz
- * Miklos: 1 x 16.9344 MHz
- Marlowe: 3 x 16.9344Mhz + 3 x 25MHz
- carz 1x 27MHz
- 1audio : 1X6.1440MHz
- * mravinsky : 2 x 16.9344Mhz + (2 x TWCMC-C XO board +1 x daughter board) if possible
- * noizas : 2 x 16.9344 MHz
- * randytsuch: 2x 25.0000 MHz
- casshan: 1 x 11.2896 MHz + 1 x 12.288 MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board
- Fabian85: 1x 16.9344 MHz, 2x PCB + 1x daughter board
- * duster1: 2 x 16.9344 MHz, 1 x 45.1584 MHz, 2 x PCB + 2 x daughter board
- * RollE2k: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2x PCB + 2x daughter board
- * shendrik: 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz
- * grzegrzol : 2 x 16.9344 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.574 MHz + 2 x 25 MHz 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 25.000 Mhz + 2 x PCB
- * smanz:1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz, 1x TWTMC-D&D, + 2x TWTMC-C
- * jims: 1 x 6.1440 Mhz + 2 x 16.9344 MHz + 6x TWTMC-C +3x TWTMC-D&D + 6 x TWTMC-DIL
- * tbrowne 5 x 22.5792 MHz + 3 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * -georgo- 4 x 22.5792 MHz + 4 x 24.576 MHz
- * Alexiss 2 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x PCB
- * bson 2 x 11.2896 MHz + 4 x 12.288 MHz + 2 x PCB
- * Gunders: 5 * 24.576 MHz + 2*TWTMC-C
- gentlevoice: 1 * 6.144 MHz

For the following frequencies, the MOQ was reached (not yet received all the orders):
SC-cut 11.2896 MHz (12)
SC-cut 22.2792 MHz (13)
SC-cut 24.5760 MHz (10)
SC-cut 45.1584 MHz (26)
SC-cut 49.1520 MHz (26)
AT-cut 16.9344 MHz (16)
AT-cut 22.2792 MHz (13)
AT-cut 24.5760 MHz (16)
AT-cut 25.0000 MHz (10)

For the following frequencies, the MOQ was not reached:
SC-cut 90.3168 MHz (2), MOQ 15 pcs
SC-cut 98.3040 MHz (1), MOQ 15 pcs
AT-cut 6.1440 MHz (5), MOQ 15 pcs
AT-cut 11.2896 MHz (5), MOQ 10 pcs
AT-cut 12.2880 MHz (7), MOQ 10 pcs
AT-cut 27.0000 MHz (1), MOQ 10 pcs
AT-cut 45.1584 MHz (6), MOQ 10 pcs
AT-cut 49.1520 MHz (5), MOQ 10 pcs
 
Interest List SC-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 3 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- Acko: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- iancanada: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- Clsidxxl: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- lindamar: 1 x 11.2896 MHz 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * tagheuer: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- palmito: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- damohpi: 2x 11.2896 Mhz
- * Naimster: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz
- * Phi: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz (Added title )
- * ambrosia168: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * flowerpot: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board + 2 x DIL
- * jdlvfr: 3 x 11.2896 Mhz
- * fralippo: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + PCBs
- * duster1: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz + 1 x 98.304MHz + PCBs
- deanoUK: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * BDL: 1 x 22.5792 MHz
- * vita : 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Malvin: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- rlim: 1 x 22.5792MHz + 1 x 24.576MHz
- * Canvas: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 2 x DIL adapter
- * mcluxun: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * grzegrzol: 2x 11.2896 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * jims: 1 x 11.2696 Mhz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * madkid 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * tbrowne 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Stijn001: 1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * smanz:1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz,
- * xaled: 1 x 11.2896 MHz + 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 5 x DIL adapter + 2 D&D PCB
 
Opting out. Updated.
Interest List SC-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 3 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- Acko: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- iancanada: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- Clsidxxl: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- lindamar: 1 x 11.2896 MHz 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * tagheuer: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- palmito: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- damohpi: 2x 11.2896 Mhz
- * Naimster: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz
- * Phi: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz (Added title )
- * ambrosia168: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * flowerpot: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board + 2 x DIL
- * jdlvfr: 3 x 11.2896 Mhz
- * fralippo: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + PCBs
- * duster1: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz + 1 x 98.304MHz + PCBs
- deanoUK: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * BDL: 1 x 22.5792 MHz
- * vita : 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Malvin: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * Canvas: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 2 x DIL adapter
- * mcluxun: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * grzegrzol: 2x 11.2896 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * jims: 1 x 11.2696 Mhz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * madkid 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * tbrowne 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Stijn001: 1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * smanz:1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz,
- * xaled: 1 x 11.2896 MHz + 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 5 x DIL adapter + 2 D&D PCB
 
Thank you Andrea but I am opting out - apologies. prefer finished products if ever you decide to roll out these.

Interest List SC-cut Crystals from Laptech
- * andrea_mori: 3 x 11.2896 MHz + 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- iancanada: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- Clsidxxl: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- lindamar: 1 x 11.2896 MHz 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * tagheuer: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- palmito: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- damohpi: 2x 11.2896 Mhz
- * Naimster: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz
- * Phi: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz (Added title )
- * ambrosia168: 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * flowerpot: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 2 x PCB + 1 x daughter board + 2 x DIL
- * jdlvfr: 3 x 11.2896 Mhz
- * fralippo: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + PCBs
- * duster1: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz + 1 x 98.304MHz + PCBs
- deanoUK: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * BDL: 1 x 22.5792 MHz
- * vita : 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Malvin: 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * Canvas: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 2 x DIL adapter
- * mcluxun: 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * grzegrzol: 2x 11.2896 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 2 x 24.576 MHz + 2 x 45.1584 MHz + 2 x 49.152 MHz
- * jims: 1 x 11.2696 Mhz + 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 MHz
- * madkid 1 x 45.1584 Mhz + 1 x 49.152 Mhz
- * tbrowne 2 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152 MHz + 1 x 90.3168 MHz
- * jborden: 2 x 45.1584 Mhz + 2 x 49.152 Mhz
- * Stijn001: 1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz
- * smanz:1 x 45.1584 MHz, + 1 x 49.152MHz,
- * xaled: 1 x 11.2896 MHz + 1 x 22.5792 MHz + 1 x 24.576 MHz + 1 x 45.1584 MHz + 1 x 49.152MHz + 5 x DIL adapter + 2 D&D PCB
 
Hi all,

I've been thinking about the way of dividing the clock signal (i.e. /2; /4; /8 etc.) in a way that leads to the least additional phase noise.

- One way of doing this is the way Andrea does it on his D&D board (i.e. using each FF to successively divide by 2) and then outputting the relevant clock signal division from the relevant FF, however:

-another way could be to feed the last FF with the original clock signal and then avoid the additional phase noise added by each new FF. I hope it is clear what I'm saying ... 😛 ... the basic idea is that the FF that outputs the clock signal to be used gets its own clock timing signal from the original clock signal (i.e. the clock signal the TWTMC outputs) and not from the succession of FFs used to divide the clock.

Any experience with what gives the lowest phase noise if the signal is to be divided e.g. by 16x?

Cheers,

Jesper
 
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