@Syn08, why don't you start your own thread. You can call it "clocks don't matter in digital audio". Leave this thread for those that want to discuss the development, implementation and enjoyment of TWTMC. You can talk about sheep and cheerleaders and inferior audio enthusiasts without interruption.
Since this is an audio application, the bottom line is audible traits. So, do those measurements make audible difference? It's the question andrea refused to answer. Please share if you know the answer.
Why don't you start your own forum? Sounds like you want to be in full control over how and what is posted.
The audible traits were described by many in this thread with multiple versions of his clocks. DDDAC describes it well on his blog. Andreas agreed with the descriptions. But anyone including myself who attempted to describe the subjective perception of the audible difference were ridiculed by the trolls. In fact it became politically incorrect to even suggest that subjective preferences in sound have any place on diyaudio. Its a concept that baffles me to this day. audio and perceived sound seem to go together, but not here.
It only takes one person on earth reliably hearing the difference in blind tests between one of Andrea's clocks and the 50-cent clocks promoted by Mr.08 as perfectly fine for audio, so as to demolish Mr.08's debating points in one stroke.
Easy enough in principle to do, but hard in practice since human perceptual testing is complicated to do well.
As for myself, I am satisfied audible differences exist, and for far more than one person on earth. Thus Mr.08's efforts to justify his and Chris' behavior fall flat for many of us.
Easy enough in principle to do, but hard in practice since human perceptual testing is complicated to do well.
As for myself, I am satisfied audible differences exist, and for far more than one person on earth. Thus Mr.08's efforts to justify his and Chris' behavior fall flat for many of us.
I'll spell it again for you: myself, I have absolutely no issues with anybody sharing any subjective listening impressions, even those that may be a stretch of reality, or are beyond the known limits of human auditory equipment. I do acknowledge that human hearing ability is a statistical variable, and individuals with extraordinary hearing abilities may exist (although I am questioning the relevance, if such an individual could be identified).
What I do take offense with is using bad or made up physics and/or engineering to support such claims. As much as extrapolating the subjective listening results, without any support in facts.
What I also do take offense with are claims of a "DIY community scope", when the scope is obviously a commercial operation. This is the core reason why I have no issues with other members here, selling their products.
Because you mentioned it, may I suggest checking out the DDDAC Linkedin profile and see if there's any commercial audio involvement. You may also want to search the forum, I posted a screenshot some time ago.
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Careful, it may crush you, in particular when you insist stretching the truth about what was said.
Let me clarify that a little bit. 25.6.2020 I ordered from LapTech Precision Inc. MQO=10 pieces of quartz crystals,( fr = 16.9344MHz, SC3, HC43) CAD55.00 per piece plus CAD 135.00 for DHL delivery,VAT, insurance,etc. A total of 685 CAD.
It costs me €47 per piece. Andrea charged the forum members 45 € for such a crystal in the same case and specifications. Unfortunately, for my frequency (16.9344MHz)there were no interested parties,even close to the MOQ
so I had to go shopping myself. If could,I would give without thinking €60-70 for each of the two pieces I needed the least.
I see absolutely nothing controversial in that purchase with Andrea.The forum members got quartz crystal at a very reasonable price,unlike me who didn’t have that luck.So there are no secrets or hidden surprises here.
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Hi gerhard,
You're right. I have zero experience with your equipment.
However, I have direct experience with the recording and reproducing equipment used in music mastering and reproduction. I am trained and paid to diagnose and repair that gear. I also have a very good test and measurement background.
I can say the claims made originally do not track with my experience, and they do not make any sense when you think about it. All I have ever said was, if you make the claim, prove it. That has not been done so far, and any time that question came up we heard him say "I am just a hobbyist, you can't hold me to those standards".
I'll just say to you that those claims are not believable. I do have a great deal of respect for you and your abilities. So, prove me wrong - please.
As to the complexities of the human brain, absolutely. It can, and does regularly fool itself. But there are limits to our ability to perceive the world around us. Anything further than that is made up by our wonderful brains.
So, rather than putting me down for things I have not claimed, prove me wrong. If you can't, or will not, your voice is just another in the chorus of faith based anger. Don't hide behind what you think the brain can do when it is beyond the ability for us to sense these things.
You're right. I have zero experience with your equipment.
However, I have direct experience with the recording and reproducing equipment used in music mastering and reproduction. I am trained and paid to diagnose and repair that gear. I also have a very good test and measurement background.
I can say the claims made originally do not track with my experience, and they do not make any sense when you think about it. All I have ever said was, if you make the claim, prove it. That has not been done so far, and any time that question came up we heard him say "I am just a hobbyist, you can't hold me to those standards".
I'll just say to you that those claims are not believable. I do have a great deal of respect for you and your abilities. So, prove me wrong - please.
As to the complexities of the human brain, absolutely. It can, and does regularly fool itself. But there are limits to our ability to perceive the world around us. Anything further than that is made up by our wonderful brains.
So, rather than putting me down for things I have not claimed, prove me wrong. If you can't, or will not, your voice is just another in the chorus of faith based anger. Don't hide behind what you think the brain can do when it is beyond the ability for us to sense these things.
OK, that was not how I perceived it. This is a step in the right direction..
IMHO, there was an assertion that lower measured phase noise results in better sound. I had observed this with commercial clocks commonly used in digital audio. NDK, Crystek & FOX. I really did not know if it would extend to the first release of WTMC in my meager home built DAC. But it did and fairly significantly. It was a curiosity / leap of faith to see if it would extend to Andrea's most recent effort with the 5 MHz clock. It was better, but marginally.
I have followed DDDAC threads for years. FWIW, I have no concern that he is here to profit at someone's expense. I believe he shares his DIY hobby as you have with your amps and phono stage designs. To me, if someone develops something and others want to obtain a design, kit or subassembly it is all good. caveat emptor. If someone buys something it is their job to do due diligence and then accept their decision. In the case of TWTMC, if you have the first generation then use it and enjoy it. The improvement in the second generation does not justify the cost. But if you want the best and cost is no object, buy it and you will see a marginal improvement. Power it with super caps and bury it in exotic vodoo vibration absorption and it will be marginally better. And be happy and ignore all the nay sayers.
Just let it go !
This is what I find baffling. Mr 08 and his chums have made their point and others disagree with them. One would expect anyone reasonable to agree to disagree and move on but no. They just go on and on and on.....
This is what I find baffling. Mr 08 and his chums have made their point and others disagree with them. One would expect anyone reasonable to agree to disagree and move on but no. They just go on and on and on.....
Chum yourself. If you missed it, here's how this new **** show started (with a pertinent comment of another member, to which I replied). I'll let others judge who are the fire starters.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...itter-crystal-oscillator-472.html#post6823624
That's it. I do, as long as he (or anybody else) bends the reality to fit an agenda.
Yep, for common frequencies like 10MHz the MOQ is 10pcs. Shipping is from Canada, but certainly it will be cheaper than adding a round trip to Italy. Quartz Crystals,OCXO, TCXO Precision Oscillators and Custom Wound Components by LapTech Precision
I'll let you discover the pricing, you may have a surprise.
I'm nobody's chum but this chain of posts nicely shows the spirit of this thread
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