I renovated a Dual CL190 for a friend.
The result was not perfect but somehow the sound we got was very big and musical. My friend was certainly very happy.
I am thinking to design something like that. Not a clone but using some of the ideas.
One is a rather big closed cabinet with a 30cm woofer.
Then using a 13cm cone midrange. The Dual has two but that is not necessary.
Modern drivers have a higher dynamic range.
The Dual uses a 34mm and 25mm soft dome.
34mm domes are rare and the ones that are there are expensive.
There is the Audax, the Scan-Seak and two Seas drivers, one with Alnico.
The Audax is the most affordable but again it is not necessary to use it.
The Scan-Speak Discovery i will use is wideband enough so that only a 25mm soft dome can be used.
Here is some information about the DUAL :
Google-Ergebnis für http://www.infinite-power.de/xCL190-08.jpg
The result was not perfect but somehow the sound we got was very big and musical. My friend was certainly very happy.
I am thinking to design something like that. Not a clone but using some of the ideas.
One is a rather big closed cabinet with a 30cm woofer.
Then using a 13cm cone midrange. The Dual has two but that is not necessary.
Modern drivers have a higher dynamic range.
The Dual uses a 34mm and 25mm soft dome.
34mm domes are rare and the ones that are there are expensive.
There is the Audax, the Scan-Seak and two Seas drivers, one with Alnico.
The Audax is the most affordable but again it is not necessary to use it.
The Scan-Speak Discovery i will use is wideband enough so that only a 25mm soft dome can be used.
Here is some information about the DUAL :
Google-Ergebnis für http://www.infinite-power.de/xCL190-08.jpg
Very advanced looking design for the early 70's. What were the crossover points? 2nd order slopes?
Great idea! This concept is unusual on the contemporary loudspeakers market but there are many people that like old Acoustic Research (and similar) speakers from the 70s. With modern 12inchers in closed box excellent results are possible. Are there still Peerless mid drivers with integral box? That would be suitable replacement for mid. My neighbor is constantly complaining about his new Harbeth Compact7 : "if only it is in a closed cabinet". Pity that so few loudspeakers use closed box today.
Hi, the double midrange, maybe not necesary , but aesthetically a winner, imho, over a single unit. Remind me an old Polk speaker model, but this Dual is certainly older. Strange and unusual the back mounting of domes..
They probably did the double mid to bring the efficiency up to the level of the other drivers. As long as the crossover point is low enough, they'll act as one.
...and they are placed horizontally ...
Now we want
1) polar plots
2) in axis, off axis , mounted on a pole, anechoic room, full stuffed room FR
IR , pink, white , brown noise
3) cone modes, tweeter comprised , at 0,1 W -1W-10W and also the decade 0.2 -2 - 20 W who knows 🙄😀
Now we want
1) polar plots
2) in axis, off axis , mounted on a pole, anechoic room, full stuffed room FR
IR , pink, white , brown noise
3) cone modes, tweeter comprised , at 0,1 W -1W-10W and also the decade 0.2 -2 - 20 W who knows 🙄😀
As said by professor Fontecedro, from Palo Alto University, this is completely irrelevant, it only needs to sound nice 😉
It's amazing, isn't it, Joachim. We do all sorts of advanced stuff, then along comes a retro/dated sort of speaker that blows you away with it's sheer musicality! 😀
Your Dual CL 190 clearly falls into this category. The "Panzer Tank" of German engineering:
This reminds me of the of our own "Hurricane airplane", the Wharfedale E70:
A wonderfully lively reflex speaker with a presence and midrange to die for after years of boring bextrene 3-way BBC monitors.
I used to have a pair of Beovox 2702. Ancient approx. 30mm SEAS tweeter and 150mm acoustic suspension woofer:
Great tweeter. Wonderful presence.
There's a good discussion going on in Lynn Olson's "Beyond The Ariel" thread about high Qms making for lively drivers with good resolution, which I know is one of your own ideas. Seems to me that 3-way is the way to go, and lively drivers if you are skilled enough to get it to work. And D'Appolito on the midrange is no bad thing.
Your Dual CL 190 clearly falls into this category. The "Panzer Tank" of German engineering:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This reminds me of the of our own "Hurricane airplane", the Wharfedale E70:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A wonderfully lively reflex speaker with a presence and midrange to die for after years of boring bextrene 3-way BBC monitors.
I used to have a pair of Beovox 2702. Ancient approx. 30mm SEAS tweeter and 150mm acoustic suspension woofer:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Great tweeter. Wonderful presence.
There's a good discussion going on in Lynn Olson's "Beyond The Ariel" thread about high Qms making for lively drivers with good resolution, which I know is one of your own ideas. Seems to me that 3-way is the way to go, and lively drivers if you are skilled enough to get it to work. And D'Appolito on the midrange is no bad thing.
The Dual's dome Mid, tweet setup reminds me of the closely mounted ADS domes from the early 80's. This company beat them by a decade.
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I was in the process of building a 3way classic style loudspeaker, to give voice to a 12W EL84 PP. Now that I see this horizontal double mid, I found it so cool that it worth all the extra crossover complication. I'm going to re think my whole project from the start.
Ever heard of KLH? Jensen? AR? Twin midranges have been done and done some more. The right stuff to comb your ducktail to man.
Me? buzz cut. Anyway thanks for the KLH reference, I'll Googlesearch to find inspiration.
This is the woofer i will use :
http://www.tymphany.com/files/P830668 Spec sheet Rev 2_0.pdf
OK, it is only a 25cm but there is also a 30cm SLS and that can be used too but the boxes will be rather big then.
http://www.tymphany.com/files/P830668 Spec sheet Rev 2_0.pdf
OK, it is only a 25cm but there is also a 30cm SLS and that can be used too but the boxes will be rather big then.
This is certainly the most authentic replacement for the tweeter :
MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : DT-100
i will use some SEAS soft domes though because i have them in stock.
MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : DT-100
i will use some SEAS soft domes though because i have them in stock.
Excellent! DIY-er won't have to spend a fortune on the drivers. What about box volume? 40-50 litres?
50 Liters seems to be good. A stuffed cabinet of 50 liters gives a Qt of 0.8, that is a bit high to modern standards but the Dual sounded a bit full in the bass.
It is still less boomy then reflex and stuffing the inside more can reduce the Ot and resonance further.
I used the Lautsprechershop tool. It is easy busyness to calculate a closed box.
It is still less boomy then reflex and stuffing the inside more can reduce the Ot and resonance further.
I used the Lautsprechershop tool. It is easy busyness to calculate a closed box.
Attachments
I think we can copy 1/1 the size of the Dual.
It is 790 x 430 x 250mm, that is 85 liters brutto and a bit over 60 liters net. when we use 20mm strong material.
I will also do the midrange cabinet like in the Dual. I like it because it also stiffens the bass cabinet.
It is 790 x 430 x 250mm, that is 85 liters brutto and a bit over 60 liters net. when we use 20mm strong material.
I will also do the midrange cabinet like in the Dual. I like it because it also stiffens the bass cabinet.
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