No plans in post #1.
The plans with dimensions are in post #2, you can lay them out for whatever plywood size you decide to use.
Hello, I've been reading up a lot on this design lately(together with especially the Keystone), as I feel the addiction of BB sawdust an PL premium frequently growing strong..!
I see a few comparisions, both SPL graphs and non scientifical(PASC opinions mostly) going on in this thread, and I must say both designs look very appealing as to what I understand, there are very competent designers behind both of them!
I'm coming from EDM(techno, trance, dubstep/dnb) music scene, where really intense bass experiences are mandatory to please both me and everyone else around me, four BFM t30's has seen this area covered in a so far pleasing way.
Now me and a friend may want to try out a new approach, most probably one of these designs and I have a few questions:
Comparing the graphs that Sine143 posted a few posts ago, it looks like the Othorn and Keystone plays similar in SPL, only that the Othorn plays quite a bit lower, would this be a correct assumption?
Also Weltersys claims the Keystone has a -3 dB point of 34 hz, but in the graphs posted by Sine143(with the TBW100 driver, might this be the reason?) the -3 dB point looks to be quite a bit higher, and 34 hz rather looks to be -8 or something. Will the Keystone have output in the 30 hz region with the proper HPF set? That's where my t30's go and I'm very satisfied with that extension. It looks to be around -9 dB at 30 hz with the 18SW114-4
How does the Keystone and Othorn compare to the DSL TH118(Which seem to be the most discussed TH model for it's efficiency and extension around here)? I'm a bit confused with numbers and if anybody have some real-life experience and opinions with long term low frequency output with these designs I will be most grateful!
Also coming from BFM land I'm used to low distortion and clean bass, which I love, are these designs going to deliver clean and effortless bass at the given SPL numbers? I'm bad at reading and translating Distortion values at given volts and dB's into real world perception, and I don't expect the bass to be as clean as FLH but I don't want to be dissapointed with high spl but dirty sound unless played at low spls(in which case I can keep my t30's)
I also really like the simplicity of the Keystone design which makes it very appealing build to me, with only three internal panels.
Sorry for the long post with a lot of questions, I'm from Sweden and we don't have very easy(or cheap for that matter) access to the drivers needed for these projects so I want to be certain we make the right decision of cab! I really enjoy this site with all expertise and great people by the way, thanks!
I see a few comparisions, both SPL graphs and non scientifical(PASC opinions mostly) going on in this thread, and I must say both designs look very appealing as to what I understand, there are very competent designers behind both of them!
I'm coming from EDM(techno, trance, dubstep/dnb) music scene, where really intense bass experiences are mandatory to please both me and everyone else around me, four BFM t30's has seen this area covered in a so far pleasing way.
Now me and a friend may want to try out a new approach, most probably one of these designs and I have a few questions:
Comparing the graphs that Sine143 posted a few posts ago, it looks like the Othorn and Keystone plays similar in SPL, only that the Othorn plays quite a bit lower, would this be a correct assumption?
Also Weltersys claims the Keystone has a -3 dB point of 34 hz, but in the graphs posted by Sine143(with the TBW100 driver, might this be the reason?) the -3 dB point looks to be quite a bit higher, and 34 hz rather looks to be -8 or something. Will the Keystone have output in the 30 hz region with the proper HPF set? That's where my t30's go and I'm very satisfied with that extension. It looks to be around -9 dB at 30 hz with the 18SW114-4
How does the Keystone and Othorn compare to the DSL TH118(Which seem to be the most discussed TH model for it's efficiency and extension around here)? I'm a bit confused with numbers and if anybody have some real-life experience and opinions with long term low frequency output with these designs I will be most grateful!
Also coming from BFM land I'm used to low distortion and clean bass, which I love, are these designs going to deliver clean and effortless bass at the given SPL numbers? I'm bad at reading and translating Distortion values at given volts and dB's into real world perception, and I don't expect the bass to be as clean as FLH but I don't want to be dissapointed with high spl but dirty sound unless played at low spls(in which case I can keep my t30's)
I also really like the simplicity of the Keystone design which makes it very appealing build to me, with only three internal panels.
Sorry for the long post with a lot of questions, I'm from Sweden and we don't have very easy(or cheap for that matter) access to the drivers needed for these projects so I want to be certain we make the right decision of cab! I really enjoy this site with all expertise and great people by the way, thanks!
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the keystone is not accuratly simmed (due to the effect of its mouth opening). but I'd take it it's close. The keystone and the xoc TH18 are close to the Danley TH118 in performance. THe othorn goes almost 10 hz lower, but requires considerable power to reach the same sple as the keystone/xoc th18.
There is a full set of high power measurements on the Othorn at Data-Bass. It us a powerful cab but is not the loudest that could be made due to the deeper than normal extension. The loading of the cabinet is at 27Hz and doesn't require a highpass until 24-25 Hz. This is a good 1/3rd to 2/3 rd octave lower than most designs and the low tuning reduces the upper bandwidth sensitivity some. There is no way around that...The lower the cabinet loading point the more overall upper bass sensitivity is diminished.If the tuning was moved up closer to 40Hz the system would be much louder but output below 40Hz would be greatly diminished. The Othorn uses a very high displacement and heavy duty driver in order to gain back some of the lost upper end sensitivity through superior driver VD and power handling. Measured sensitivity with 2.0volts is about 100dB at 1m in half space from 35-100Hz.sensitivity. THD results are in my opinion very good. With THD under 15% from 25-100Hz with a brutal 121 volt sine wave sweep. At 68 volts THD is under 10% from 20-100Hz. Just look at the graphs. Considering these power levels and outout being produced these are very good results IMHO.
Anyway the Othorn is really something I designed for a niche that most products available did not cover. If you do not need high power output 25-40Hz from a reasonable size there are probably other options that work better for your app. I find that I like to have a solid 25-30Hz bottom for music anymore.
Art will probably stop by and comment on the Keystone.
From the phone so forgive the slop.
Anyway the Othorn is really something I designed for a niche that most products available did not cover. If you do not need high power output 25-40Hz from a reasonable size there are probably other options that work better for your app. I find that I like to have a solid 25-30Hz bottom for music anymore.
Art will probably stop by and comment on the Keystone.
From the phone so forgive the slop.
1) Post #203 compares the actual response of the Keystone and Othorn.
The larger, heavier, more expensive Othorn plays louder and lower.
2) The Keystone excursion minima is at about 34 Hz, but it is almost -7dB at 31.5 Hz, and excursion is about the same at 32 Hz as 45 Hz.
If -7dB at 31.5 Hz satisfies you, "good enough".
If you want -3 dB at 27 Hz, go Othorn.
3) The Keystone matches the DSL TH-118 very closely in phase and frequency response, though the TH-118 has a less steep LF cutoff.
The Othorn plays louder and lower.
I have another good contender my TH-1819 vs Othorn
TH_1819 vs Othorn outside@1/2 space 1m (8 Ohm 2,83 Volts vs 4 Ohm 2,0 Volts driver)
TH_1819 vs Othorn delta TH_1819
20 Hz 88.09 81.34 + 6.75 dB
25 Hz 93.54 89.77 + 3.77 dB
30 Hz 95.74 96.12 - 0.38 dB
35 Hz 96.74 98.13 - 1.39 dB
40 Hz 97.44 97.86 - 0.42 dB
45 Hz 98.10 97.51 + 0.59 dB
50 Hz 98.76 97.38 + 1.38 dB
55 Hz 99.33 97.44 + 1.89 dB
60 Hz 99.53 97.61 + 1.92 dB
65 Hz 98.91 97.83 + 1.08 dB
70 Hz 97.38 98.04 - 0.66 dB
75 Hz 95.67 98.16 - 2.49 dB
