The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps

Jump to Latest
M

mlee

Member
Joined 2011
The Hypex software program in my opinion was designed by engineers to provide maximum flexibility with still ALOT of usability.

A new user MUST get up to speed on crossover slopes and measurement gear in order to take full advantage of the system. There will be some self learning involved. To me it feels like the target audience for the software tool assumes the user has some rudimentary knowledge of Butterworth and Linkwitz filter construction principles.

I like the ability to dial in the Q of the crossovers. This is more than worth the price of entry of the software. Sometime canned BW or LR filters just don't work for the given driver selection or baffle layout. I like having the option.

There are some bugs but they are minor. Lets face it, who doesn't have problems with a phone or AVR? The bugs don't affect usability. I'm currently using the FA253 modules. I don't run into many problems with the hardware or software.
 
HeadShake

HeadShake

Member
Joined 2019
stoomeister said:
if I understand correctly above, the measured delays weren't due to applied IIR filtering but inherently present in DSP in pass-though mode. If this is actually the case the LP/HP filters would introduce further delays.
Note sure how much of a real problem this is, but nonetheless raised some concern.
Moreover - there were numerous complaints on hiss sound and some digital "clicking" noises which may (or may not) be possible to minimize by fiddling with on board connector cables.
Various issues of setting up the DSP.. i.e. actual crossover/filters not exactly same as they appear in software, system resetting itself to "defaults" etc..

Supposedly noise and distortion of the NC25xMP amp module itself few times better than that of FusionAmp's onboard DSP & ADC/DAC..

Don't know how serious all of that is, but before ordering the FA253, I wanted to make sure there is flexibility of using them as pure amps with steady performance (in which case they should be no different to any other NC25xMP based amp, i.e. Nord or Audiophonics), with external DSP and DAC, i.e. miniDSP SHD and/or OctoDAC.
Click to expand...

I too like the idea of popping the amps out if I want a new DSP. I am soo close to ordering.

My plan is to use a basic box for the outside: AC-1414 BUD Enclosures | Hawk Electronics

And then use ponoko to make a cover for the box.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


I debating whether or not I want it to look fancy since I can pick from a number of materials for the top. Aluminium? Walnut veneered MDF? Plywood? $33USD-8USD. Anywho, this should let me put the plate amp in a box for cheap. I orginally contacted the manufacturer of the box to cut the bottom and they wanted $200USD so I am ahead of that game.

Have you ever compared the fusion plate amp to what a minidsp does as far as noise? I think the plate amp wins.

You can try the hypex software before you buy anything. Not many products allow that. Is it goofy? Yes. But I think I will only use it one time to set it up or just use a minidsp if I get lost.

Ch1 should be used on woofers from what I read.
 
S

stoomeister

Member
Joined 2011
cowanaudio

cowanaudio

Member
Joined 2004
cowanaudio.com
Paid Member
mlee said:
The Hypex software program in my opinion was designed by engineers to provide maximum flexibility with still ALOT of usability.

A new user MUST get up to speed on crossover slopes and measurement gear in order to take full advantage of the system. There will be some self learning involved. To me it feels like the target audience for the software tool assumes the user has some rudimentary knowledge of Butterworth and Linkwitz filter construction principles.

I like the ability to dial in the Q of the crossovers. This is more than worth the price of entry of the software. Sometime canned BW or LR filters just don't work for the given driver selection or baffle layout. I like having the option.

There are some bugs but they are minor. Lets face it, who doesn't have problems with a phone or AVR? The bugs don't affect usability. I'm currently using the FA253 modules. I don't run into many problems with the hardware or software.
Click to expand...

I've been using the FA253 and FA503 amps from the day they were released and agree 100% with the above. Target audience is skilled DIYers and engineers. They will adapt to the product quickly. A novice DIYer will struggle, but luckily much help is available if they are patient, read the manual and ask questions.

If you want a more simple though less flexible platform then MiniDSP have lots of good product too. Even simpler is something like a DCX2496.
 
F

fedde

Member
Joined 2002
fedde.nu
Julf said:
What aspects of the DAC in the Fusion modules do you think isn't good enough? Isn't the Soekris DAC a R2R one? Pretty sure the DACs hypex uses are much better than any R2R DAC - at least based on objective criteria.
Click to expand...

Well, first of all I think that the specification of the DAC is not fully in line with the amplifiers. The amplifiers are top notch, especially given the money (though this Purifi stuff appears to be cool too).

I am mostly concerned about SNR of Fusion DACs. Though the measurements of Fusion and Soekris DACs are more similar than I thought. While comparing the graphs you need to take into account that the Soekris signal is at 0 dB versus -18 dB. And that the distortion will be less with 0.01% resistors.

I wonder how the Fusion measurements look of you go 24 dB lower in volume. The nice thing about the Soekris, apart from the customizable FIR and IIR filters and low jitter, is that the distortion and SNR performance degrades very little at lower levels.

I currently use the Soekris R2R network directly connected via XLR to a NC400 with reduced gain (removed R141). I typically listen at -20 to -30 dB volume, digitally reduced in DAC. I still have almost 24 bits left, though not totally lineair naturally given R2R. I wonder how this would work in a Fusion scenario!? In case amplifier gain is higher, how much bits are left? Will noise become clearly audible?

Fedde
 
F

fedde

Member
Joined 2002
fedde.nu
Shutdown98 said:
I had a dual mono soekris dac before i went along with the Hypex FA 253 to make my current speakers.
I do not miss the Soekris dac...
Do still have the soekris dac if you are interested... ;-)
Click to expand...

Well my birthday is end of the month... :p

Good to hear your experiences. And your setup "sounds" promising, OBL15 with ribbon...

In the end, being able to make the right crossovers for the drivers must be much more significant then a few 0.000x % less distortion on electronics side...

Fedde
 
cowanaudio

cowanaudio

Member
Joined 2004
cowanaudio.com
Paid Member
fedde said:
In the end, being able to make the right crossovers for the drivers must be much more significant then a few 0.000x % less distortion on electronics side...
Click to expand...

That's the key, 100% agree.

Way too many audiophiles with $$$ equipment have very poorly implemented systems. They lack the knowledge to eliminate glaring faults however they obsess over cables/DACs/transports and other irrelevant stuff.
 
ds23man

ds23man

Member
Joined 2006
mlee said:
The Hypex software program in my opinion was designed by engineers to provide maximum flexibility with still ALOT of usability.

A new user MUST get up to speed on crossover slopes and measurement gear in order to take full advantage of the system. There will be some self learning involved. To me it feels like the target audience for the software tool assumes the user has some rudimentary knowledge of Butterworth and Linkwitz filter construction principles.

I like the ability to dial in the Q of the crossovers. This is more than worth the price of entry of the software. Sometime canned BW or LR filters just don't work for the given driver selection or baffle layout. I like having the option.

There are some bugs but they are minor. Lets face it, who doesn't have problems with a phone or AVR? The bugs don't affect usability. I'm currently using the FA253 modules. I don't run into many problems with the hardware or software.
Click to expand...

The software was designed purely to use the correct workflow designing an active filter: measure - correct driver curves- aply crossovers- dial in the correct delays. This can all be done within HFD using the simulation. So only one measurement per driver is needed. With some experience, setting up your rig for measurement takes more time than creating the filter.
 
S

stoomeister

Member
Joined 2011
ds23man, seems you'd be one to ask - can NCxxxMP module on FusionAmps be fed line in signal directly, without being routed thru onboard DSP and ADC/DAC?

Asked the question several times but all answers seem to be in the wrong direction, discussing FusionAmp in general. Im not here to dispute if FusionAmp is a good product. I hope it is because i am about to buy 4 of them.. But would be good to know if flexibility of using it as pure amp only exist or not.
Thank you!
 
J

Julf

Member
Joined 2011
fedde said:
I wonder how the Fusion measurements look of you go 24 dB lower in volume. The nice thing about the Soekris, apart from the customizable FIR and IIR filters and low jitter, is that the distortion and SNR performance degrades very little at lower levels.
Click to expand...


Does the Soekris have some sort of analog attenuator? If not, SNR performance will always degrade at lower levels, as the signal level is reduced but noise level stays constant.


I wonder how this would work in a Fusion scenario!? In case amplifier gain is higher, how much bits are left? Will noise become clearly audible?

Fedde
Click to expand...
Why would it be an issue - the signal levels and gain are just as well matched in the Fusion scenario.
 
ds23man

ds23man

Member
Joined 2006

Attachments

  • _DSC2603[1].JPG
    _DSC2603[1].JPG
    328.8 KB · Views: 441
  • _DSC2360[1].jpg
    _DSC2360[1].jpg
    385.8 KB · Views: 414
S

Shutdown98

Member
Joined 2010
fedde said:
Well my birthday is end of the month... :p

Good to hear your experiences. And your setup "sounds" promising, OBL15 with ribbon...

In the end, being able to make the right crossovers for the drivers must be much more significant then a few 0.000x % less distortion on electronics side...

Fedde
Click to expand...

If you are able/willing to take the route to Zutphen NL you can have a go at my system and listen for yourself....
 
S

stoomeister

Member
Joined 2011
ds23man said:
Yes, it is possible.
Click to expand...

How exactly?

My thinking was as follows:
FA252: cut wires on ribbon cable going into no.pins 1,2,3 & 14,15,16 of J4 and then solder wires from 1,2,3 to respective +,-,gdn pins of new XLR connector for channel 1 and from 14,15,16 to gnd,+,- of new XLR for channel 2.

FA253:
Same as above plus 3rd input to cables cut from J4 of NC100, 1,2,3 to respective +,-,gdn pins of new XLR for channel 3 (tweeter).

Everything else of FusionAmp remain unchanged and should work OK?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom