Yesterday, my brother and I did a double blind test comparing the analog and digital inputs of Fusionamp to show some testimony.
Let me briefly describe things. The source device was a Pioneer BDP-LX58 in both cases and the analog signal was provided by a NAD C510. I made 2 presets so that my brother only had to switch between them and not have to set anything else. Preset 1 was the XLR input (from the NAD), preset 2 was the S/PDIF input (from the BDP), the volumes were within 0.1dB for both inputs, measured with a microphone.
The music was well known by me, which was high quality CD and SACD recordings.
My brother switched inputs so I couldn't see or hear anything from it. I was pretty sure I would hear the difference because I had tried to compare the inputs myself and then I thought the digital input was better.
So what was the result? It is a purely random guess as to which input it was. When I thought I had already noticed the difference and from now on I would be able to easily tell which input is active, I was wrong, and I couldn't distinguish the inputs with certainty. If anyone might be interested.
Finally, I was personally a little relieved because I prefer the analog input for the reasons I described recently (mainly because the Fusionamp doesn't have enough digital input for my needs).
Thanks for reading and suggesting a blind test by some members!
Let me briefly describe things. The source device was a Pioneer BDP-LX58 in both cases and the analog signal was provided by a NAD C510. I made 2 presets so that my brother only had to switch between them and not have to set anything else. Preset 1 was the XLR input (from the NAD), preset 2 was the S/PDIF input (from the BDP), the volumes were within 0.1dB for both inputs, measured with a microphone.
The music was well known by me, which was high quality CD and SACD recordings.
My brother switched inputs so I couldn't see or hear anything from it. I was pretty sure I would hear the difference because I had tried to compare the inputs myself and then I thought the digital input was better.
So what was the result? It is a purely random guess as to which input it was. When I thought I had already noticed the difference and from now on I would be able to easily tell which input is active, I was wrong, and I couldn't distinguish the inputs with certainty. If anyone might be interested.
Finally, I was personally a little relieved because I prefer the analog input for the reasons I described recently (mainly because the Fusionamp doesn't have enough digital input for my needs).
Thanks for reading and suggesting a blind test by some members!
Quite humbling isn't it? I'm glad you had the guts to do the test, and secondly to publish the results.
Many blind tests between different electronic systems/components turns out this way. The only pieces that do stand out were poorly designed in the first place or flavoured by choice by the designer.
Many blind tests between different electronic systems/components turns out this way. The only pieces that do stand out were poorly designed in the first place or flavoured by choice by the designer.
Yes it is, but at the same time I'm glad I did such a test. From now I recommend to others who have similar doubts or simply want to compare two or more audio devices, the result can be quite revealing.
I don't really want to deal with psychology here, but for me, the fact that I know the benefits of a digital connection/transmission were probably enough to bring an imaginative difference in the sound, regardless of my will. But again, I'm not a psychologist.
And indeed how many ridiculously overpriced equipment can be seen that has terrible measurement results. Which is probably intended to make the sound really different with them but they sell as better.
Cheers!
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Absolutely. Still, there are a lot of audiophiles out there who'd rather believe their preconceived notions than any evidence, so they deal with it by declaring that blind tests are invalid/useless.
You might not be a psychologist, but that doesn't mean you aren't right.
Confirmation bias is probably the single biggest factor in audio, so it is surprising how audiophiles (actively) don't want to know about it.
Is there a straightforward way to bypass FusionAMP DSP and just feed it line in signal (i.e. from MiniDSP SHD)? What would be the input's gain in this case? Is it possible to access both channels of FA252 or all 3 channels of FA253?
Sorry if was already answered before in the thread, but only found one comment on this which somehow not 100% clear to me. Would appreciate if someone has a step by step instruction how to do this! Thank you!
Sorry if was already answered before in the thread, but only found one comment on this which somehow not 100% clear to me. Would appreciate if someone has a step by step instruction how to do this! Thank you!
Now, I haven’t tried it, but from what I can read from the available docs, a Fusion Amp consists of a nCore 1 or 2-channel MP module, a dsp card and for the 3-channel amps an extra nCore tweeter amp module.
The MP modules are standalone amps, in that they have an SMPS power supply, amplifiers and buffer. The dsp and extra tweeter modules are fed power from the main module.
The dsp can be bypassed by unplugging the cable from the dsp and putting a different signal in.
Johan-Kr
As far as I'm aware Hypex sell NCore modules like NC502, NC252 only to OEMs and individual users can only buy NC400.. or the plate amps.
The latter all have built in DSP which apparently is weak spot of this product. As this thread reports: significant frequency-dependent latency of signal, non-user-friendly software with bugs etc. etc.
Of course I could buy ready-made power amp from Nord or similar manufacturer, but it's cost is significantly higher (some EUR400 for pair).
The latter all have built in DSP which apparently is weak spot of this product. As this thread reports: significant frequency-dependent latency of signal, non-user-friendly software with bugs etc. etc.
Of course I could buy ready-made power amp from Nord or similar manufacturer, but it's cost is significantly higher (some EUR400 for pair).
Anyways, replies received have really nothing to do with the question. Which is how do you use (if possible)the line input of NCxxxMP which is there on Fusion plate amp directly, bypassing the DSP with AD-DA conversions and other detrimental processing artifacts. Logically you could simply separate first and last couple of wires from ribnon cable that goes into J4 and solder them to new XLR or RCA inputs. But woudl the overall Plate Amp still work OK?
This is still not an answer to your question but the FA DSP don't have more frequency-dependent latency than any other IIR DSP or crossover, the bugs are minor and doesn't affect the functionality, the software may need some accustomation, but that's all, I had no problem with the first time I used it. All this IME.
Do you want to use FIR filters or what frequency-dependent latency are you talking about? Just asking.
The only thing I doubt with the Fusion amps is whether the DAC is good enough, e.g. compared to Soekris DACs. And especially while using high efficiency drivers (93-96 dB/w) and at lower volumes. Is the hardware gain in the boards easily adaptable? Otherwise you may lose quite some bits in the digital path in such a setup...
Fedde
Fedde
@fedde
Someone on AVS tested the FA252. Look pretty clean?
DIY Speakers and Subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
credit notnyt on avsforum
Someone on AVS tested the FA252. Look pretty clean?
DIY Speakers and Subs - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
credit notnyt on avsforum
What aspects of the DAC in the Fusion modules do you think isn't good enough? Isn't the Soekris DAC a R2R one? Pretty sure the DACs hypex uses are much better than any R2R DAC - at least based on objective criteria.
if I understand correctly above, the measured delays weren't due to applied IIR filtering but inherently present in DSP in pass-though mode. If this is actually the case the LP/HP filters would introduce further delays.
Note sure how much of a real problem this is, but nonetheless raised some concern.
Moreover - there were numerous complaints on hiss sound and some digital "clicking" noises which may (or may not) be possible to minimize by fiddling with on board connector cables.
Various issues of setting up the DSP.. i.e. actual crossover/filters not exactly same as they appear in software, system resetting itself to "defaults" etc..
Supposedly noise and distortion of the NC25xMP amp module itself few times better than that of FusionAmp's onboard DSP & ADC/DAC..
Don't know how serious all of that is, but before ordering the FA253, I wanted to make sure there is flexibility of using them as pure amps with steady performance (in which case they should be no different to any other NC25xMP based amp, i.e. Nord or Audiophonics), with external DSP and DAC, i.e. miniDSP SHD and/or OctoDAC.
Hello
I'm Marc from France
I am interrested in buying two FA252 or two FA502 to amplify my two way passive studio monitor, but I read all the 151 pages and I'm very surprised...
So many bugs, so many problems... not so easy tu use...
At this time, can you tell me If Hypex have fixed all those problems ?
Thanks
Marc
I'm Marc from France
I am interrested in buying two FA252 or two FA502 to amplify my two way passive studio monitor, but I read all the 151 pages and I'm very surprised...
So many bugs, so many problems... not so easy tu use...
At this time, can you tell me If Hypex have fixed all those problems ?
Thanks
Marc