Not far off at all, drop the current project and headoff in an entirely different direction... 😉
WOW! This is art and engineering at their best! Congrats Wesayso!
Started reading this thread yesterday and couldn't stop.
You, my friend, are the living proof that engineers can and should be artists as well.
Thank you for sharing, it is enlightening.
Started reading this thread yesterday and couldn't stop.
You, my friend, are the living proof that engineers can and should be artists as well.
Thank you for sharing, it is enlightening.
By the way, and this is for future builders, what if instead of using rods you use cables.
You can pretension them such that even when the wood contracts at max they will still apply tension and when wood is dilated to the max the applied tension will not break anything. This “technique” is used in making segmented bridges (concrete segments kept together with pre-tensioned cables). Of course your cables will have to be calculated (material, thickness and tension) plus you will have to annihilate any vibrations. Just a thought J.
You can pretension them such that even when the wood contracts at max they will still apply tension and when wood is dilated to the max the applied tension will not break anything. This “technique” is used in making segmented bridges (concrete segments kept together with pre-tensioned cables). Of course your cables will have to be calculated (material, thickness and tension) plus you will have to annihilate any vibrations. Just a thought J.
Back to our regular scheduled program 🙂
As said, the back baffle needed some work:
The baffle is only 10 mm thick but every extra little bit of breathing helps I guess.
The nuts and bolts you see are M3 size(!). Those fit the front while staying out of the way of the standard neoprene gasket. The only job they do is keep it in place during assembly. The front baffle will lock the drivers down.
Pretty close to my original plans:
Some small changes because of the way it mounts on the enclosure.
As said, the back baffle needed some work:
The baffle is only 10 mm thick but every extra little bit of breathing helps I guess.
The nuts and bolts you see are M3 size(!). Those fit the front while staying out of the way of the standard neoprene gasket. The only job they do is keep it in place during assembly. The front baffle will lock the drivers down.
Pretty close to my original plans:
Some small changes because of the way it mounts on the enclosure.
Absolutely, astonishing 😛
Franco Serblin would have been proud to have his name on speakers like this
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Sensitivity will be around 96 dB/watt. But don't forget two things:
- The bottom and high end need boost from EQ
- Line arrays only drop 3dB with every doubling of the distance from the array in the near field compared to 6 dB for a point source.
- The bottom and high end need boost from EQ
- Line arrays only drop 3dB with every doubling of the distance from the array in the near field compared to 6 dB for a point source.
Looking forard to yout next picture updates Wesayso 🙂
I managed to start the next chapter for mine today by making the router templated needed to recess the driver flange 😉
I managed to start the next chapter for mine today by making the router templated needed to recess the driver flange 😉
I'll be here looking at all the updates (as if I've ever left... not!).
My beloved arrays are going to my father-in-law's place. I told him I'd give them to him.
I plugged in my old speakers. One word came to mind: boring.
I'll keep busy as I have a pair of W8-1772 to play with... but there will be another set of arrays in the future. I fell in love with the sound. But next time, I'll get the real thing, a nice box full of those TC9s.
My beloved arrays are going to my father-in-law's place. I told him I'd give them to him.
I plugged in my old speakers. One word came to mind: boring.
I'll keep busy as I have a pair of W8-1772 to play with... but there will be another set of arrays in the future. I fell in love with the sound. But next time, I'll get the real thing, a nice box full of those TC9s.
The 1772 is no shabby speaker either. I have been using the Faital Pro 3FE25 lately and really like the sound. It is a bit more expensive (+$7) than the TC9FD, but sounds just about as smooth and has 91dB sensitivity. Xmax is down by 1mm though. I think these may be just as good in an array. What they lack in xmax, they make up in sensitivity. An array of 25 of them might reach 101dB sensititivity?
That 3FE25 might give Halair the chance to use more drivers! It's 81mm dimension might just be enough to cram those extra drivers in. Xdamage as they call it is at a comfortable 7.9 mm so yeah, they might do very well in an array.
Just to be save run 3 or more subs in the bottom octave, they better be sensitive subs though 😀.
Just to be save run 3 or more subs in the bottom octave, they better be sensitive subs though 😀.
I might attempt something like this as well, I was under the impression those drivers were a bit more expensive than they are, but for less than 6 bills, it's really not that expensive.
I haven't followed the thread since inception, but I did go back and read the build progress...it makes me sad to see that first dark wood finish with a huge stress crack in it 🙁
I haven't followed the thread since inception, but I did go back and read the build progress...it makes me sad to see that first dark wood finish with a huge stress crack in it 🙁
I don't know guys. It seems that once you have expended all this money and time you still wind up with a system that need a lot of EQ and may not sound any better than a simple 8 inch two way. It might make a good PA system for a gym or meeting hall but not in the average living room.
Looks like you're not into arrays yet 😀.
There are quite a few reasons for me to build these. It was a system that used quite a lot of EQ that got me thinking of this in the first place. So I'm not opposed to using EQ.
I wanted:
- Dynamic speakers with above average sensitivity
- Smallest footprint possible
- No crossovers in the vocal range
- Placing near (back)wall
The above was my shopping list so to speak....
And these lines had a few more advantages like the more gradual drop in SPL when you get further away from them. Another plus is "not exiting" floor and ceiling reflections.
The ability to cover from at least 30 Hz (maybe lower) all the way to ~18 KHz.
Don't forget, the total SD of one of these speakers is 925 mm2.
But there are some disadvantages as well, like the time smear of the signal that reaches the ear due to the time differences in distance from all those speakers.
If I didn't have some of the constraints I listed above I might have build totally different speakers. Who knows, after listening multiple times to my next door neighbours Altec Lansing speakers built around '76 I might have gone for a variation on that theme.
There are quite a few reasons for me to build these. It was a system that used quite a lot of EQ that got me thinking of this in the first place. So I'm not opposed to using EQ.
I wanted:
- Dynamic speakers with above average sensitivity
- Smallest footprint possible
- No crossovers in the vocal range
- Placing near (back)wall
The above was my shopping list so to speak....
And these lines had a few more advantages like the more gradual drop in SPL when you get further away from them. Another plus is "not exiting" floor and ceiling reflections.
The ability to cover from at least 30 Hz (maybe lower) all the way to ~18 KHz.
Don't forget, the total SD of one of these speakers is 925 mm2.
But there are some disadvantages as well, like the time smear of the signal that reaches the ear due to the time differences in distance from all those speakers.
If I didn't have some of the constraints I listed above I might have build totally different speakers. Who knows, after listening multiple times to my next door neighbours Altec Lansing speakers built around '76 I might have gone for a variation on that theme.
I will go out on a limb here and figure that you have never heard arrays done this way before, right?
There is no way you can compare a pair of line arrays including 25 drivers each array, to a simple 8" two-way system.
I will direct you to the documentation regarding line arrays (http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf), and the many threads already finished where users mention the amazing soundstage, and the dynamics, arrays provide (UTSE).
PS. wesayso beat me to it! 🙂
'Sound better' is a matter of taste, so YMMV as always on that score. However, arrays of this kind do work very well if properly designed and implemented. You have nearly 4x the radiating area of a 'simple' 2-way with an 8in midbass (roughly the same as a 15in woofer), so you can get more LF extension than is usually the case, with greater dynamic range and lower distortion. In most rooms, you also have a significant reduction in issues with floor / ceiling reflections. The reduced decay with listening distance is also nice to have in large / long spaces.
Nearfield arrays are certainly not for everybody. Leaving aside the love-it / hate-it aesthetics, some people cannot get on with the radiation characteristics, mainly because they find it disconcerting to not hear any real change when they stand up, lie down or move about, which is fair enough. But they are a valid type of speaker that can have many advantages (along with a few tradeoffs) compared to a 'normal' point source.
A better comparison to a line array like this might be a WMTMW tower with 10" woofers. A simple 8" two way isn't going to be comparable in terms of impact and dynamics, IME. I personally find 8" two ways to be enjoyable only in relatively small carpeted rooms. They tend to get lost in larger rooms, especially with any sort of reflective surfaces (i.e., wood floors).
All the line array I've heard do have a characteristic sort of sonic signature, from home brewed to the PA towers at Walt Disney Concert Hall. They do some things very well, but have some quirks of their own, as does just about any loudspeaker format.
All the line array I've heard do have a characteristic sort of sonic signature, from home brewed to the PA towers at Walt Disney Concert Hall. They do some things very well, but have some quirks of their own, as does just about any loudspeaker format.