TC9 in Stereo, about a year ago, about the same SPL level except at the top end (which was lower in this measurement).
Clearly these drivers are related
.I do sweep from 10 to 20000, but I won't show them just yet. Still need to clear up some room issues to give the 10F the same circumstances
as the TC9's. I don't want to give the wrong impression and I just need more time and clean sweeps without traffic. All in all it is comparable to what the TC9's showed, which isn't surprising. The 10F needs less bost down low, and is cleaner in frequency output before EQ. Also no surprise.
In time I'll show the results. But I need them to be clean and representative.
Isn't setting your impulse window larger enough to show the 20Hz results?View attachment 1084817
TC9 in Stereo, about a year ago, about the same SPL level except at the top end (which was lower in this measurement).
Clearly these drivers are related
I do sweep from 10 to 20000, but I won't show them just yet. Still need to clear up some room issues to give the 10F the same circumstances
as the TC9's. I don't want to give the wrong impression and I just need more time and clean sweeps without traffic. All in all it is comparable to what the TC9's showed, which isn't surprising. The 10F needs less bost down low, and is cleaner in frequency output before EQ. Also no surprise.
In time I'll show the results. But I need them to be clean and representative.
Sure, but if I show it, some folks might jump to the wrong conclusions. So I will be ready for that when I'm ready.
I still see some room problems I'm going to solve first, if you don't mind. And even if you do.
And I'm not ready yet...
Just came back from under the floor in a not so pleasant tight space to route my new active HDMI cable.
So now I do get 4K over 10 meter.
I still see some room problems I'm going to solve first, if you don't mind. And even if you do
.And I'm not ready yet...
Just came back from under the floor in a not so pleasant tight space to route my new active HDMI cable.
So now I do get 4K over 10 meter.
An example of why I came to trust the Vituix predictions,
When modeling the array with floor and ceiling mirrors (using actual modeled drivers) I get to save an IR that might resemble what I measure
in my room. As it would include those room effects. First time we did that on the thread of @nc535 it made me sit up straight and take notice!
So here's an early waterfall result of an IR like that from Vituixcad:
Don't mind the flatness of the curve, just look for general trends, I EQ-ed this quickly with a 6 cycle FWD at ~80 dB....
If I look at my measured results, and EQ it similarly, I get this in reality (it's a Stereo sum, set at 80 dB and EQ-ed):
Not bad eh? Yes, there are some differences, but based on what I saw at the time, I could make the decision to trust the predictions
of Vituix, and rely on it to be close to reality, so if I could book improved results with filter tweaks, it would translate to my real in-room results.
That's what I meant a while ago when I said, if you want to know what it does in the room, with regards to floor and ceiling reflections,
model the speaker mirrors of the floor and ceiling reflections. That way you get to save the IR and compare it too real in-room results.
I found it useful, because with these arrays, this type of in-room measurements is all I'm gonna get. I can't measure at close range as to
not include the room as much, so I can only rely on what I get at the listening spot. Knowing what part is caused by what effect just became
a lot easier with a tool like Vituixcad on hand. I bet it would help with other type of speakers too, if you'd want to know.
(notice the high frequency extension actually being higher up in real life, -3 dB at 19.5 KHz)
When modeling the array with floor and ceiling mirrors (using actual modeled drivers) I get to save an IR that might resemble what I measure
in my room. As it would include those room effects. First time we did that on the thread of @nc535 it made me sit up straight and take notice!
So here's an early waterfall result of an IR like that from Vituixcad:
Don't mind the flatness of the curve, just look for general trends, I EQ-ed this quickly with a 6 cycle FWD at ~80 dB....
If I look at my measured results, and EQ it similarly, I get this in reality (it's a Stereo sum, set at 80 dB and EQ-ed):
Not bad eh? Yes, there are some differences, but based on what I saw at the time, I could make the decision to trust the predictions
of Vituix, and rely on it to be close to reality, so if I could book improved results with filter tweaks, it would translate to my real in-room results.
That's what I meant a while ago when I said, if you want to know what it does in the room, with regards to floor and ceiling reflections,
model the speaker mirrors of the floor and ceiling reflections. That way you get to save the IR and compare it too real in-room results.
I found it useful, because with these arrays, this type of in-room measurements is all I'm gonna get. I can't measure at close range as to
not include the room as much, so I can only rely on what I get at the listening spot. Knowing what part is caused by what effect just became
a lot easier with a tool like Vituixcad on hand. I bet it would help with other type of speakers too, if you'd want to know
.(notice the high frequency extension actually being higher up in real life, -3 dB at 19.5 KHz)
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80 dB is the level I used as a reference. A 6 cycle FDW is a way of filtering in REW for the IR: Frequency Dependent Window (FDW), it uses 6 cycles at every frequency and presents it. That way I EQ before even the floor and ceiling reflections happen (except for the top end above 10Khz).
If I would gate the measurement instead, I'd see no low frequency detail. If I would apply a smoothing I wouldn't be EQ-ing the earliest arrival of the direct energy.
Pretty sure I've mentioned this stuff a thousand times.
The message is easy: One cannot "shutt-off" floor and ceiling reflections in a real room, but we can in simulation tools!
If I would gate the measurement instead, I'd see no low frequency detail. If I would apply a smoothing I wouldn't be EQ-ing the earliest arrival of the direct energy.
Pretty sure I've mentioned this stuff a thousand times
.The message is easy: One cannot "shutt-off" floor and ceiling reflections in a real room, but we can in simulation tools!
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Yeah, this is an awesome thread about an incredibly well done build, but the nitty gritty gets lost in the ~400 pages of random dudes like me gushing or asking questions. For what it's worth, a project with this much time invested in incremental improvements has some of the best nitty gritty type information I've seen. If only I could always find what I was looking for. Same problem with the Elsinore thread.
I can see your point, though I tried to make/keep it accessible with some 'quick' links in the first post .
I've always found my way using Google search tools...
But the new search (This thread) tool works well too (remembering a word and author/poster to search what I need to find again).
It does help that I have a very good memory, usually going back for years for the things I really like or am interested in.
.I've always found my way using Google search tools...
But the new search (This thread) tool works well too (remembering a word and author/poster to search what I need to find again).
It does help that I have a very good memory, usually going back for years for the things I really like or am interested in
.
Even though I added a smiley above, I really mean that. Whenever I have suggested a wild or crazy idea to test out, the response I got back made me think it over, and adjust the idea to something much more real. It's the reason I post here. Reading here inspires me, but it also keeps me "in the loop" and on track. One may think they know it all if you never ask another for advise. I'm perfectly aware I don't know it all and find it useful to "ping pong" ideas and opinions.
I just had to add that.
I just had to add that.
or teach him a thing or two about measurements?Today would have been an ideal day for measurements. The girlfriend is out shopping with friends. But...
My son bought his first vinyl album last week (the second album followed only a few days later).
So out shopping to find him some stereo equipment instead
I think I can understand it, if you think how much it differs from streaming .
The "shopping" should have been between quotes from the start. He got the Warfedale floorstanders from his grandma (who uses a Sonos these days)
and my record player and trusty old Pioneer amplifier. I'll remember the smile he had upon first sound! (Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon)
He has my Pioneer A457, but will get the A757 Mark II after a clean up.
.The "shopping" should have been between quotes from the start. He got the Warfedale floorstanders from his grandma (who uses a Sonos these days)
and my record player and trusty old Pioneer amplifier. I'll remember the smile he had upon first sound! (Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon)
He has my Pioneer A457, but will get the A757 Mark II after a clean up.
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Having done a 16-driver array and found it tedious, I was in awe that you could do it with 25 drivers.
but this one is just insane!!!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CiIVZbqMYWb/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
but this one is just insane!!!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CiIVZbqMYWb/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=