rabstg said:
I take this as a Christmas joke.😎
Enjoy his PCBs, they are good.
Particularly that "Audio Buffer".
Oh, don't trust the goundings too.
Carlos-
Why don’t you work "with him" and make a design you both like?
His resources that I was referring to (not as a joke) are his ability to have quality PCB's made practically over night at VERY reasonable prices.
Every Engineer has successes and failures.. He is just learning design and this forum is the ideal place to learn and experiment.
His "audio buffer" may not be perfect. But then I won't order one... Hopefully he will learn from the mistakes and not ignore good FREE advice from others.
I was hoping that he would just have PCB's made from Upupa's design which is as close as I've seen to perfect. But that is another thread.
Anyway, why don't you make the PCB's? Yes it can be done with out, but most prefer with. There is a demand, and digi01 is just trying to fill it.
Everyone of us here on this "chip amp" forum copied someone else’s work... This entire forum is built on the coping and bettering of the original. Are we hypocrites? I designed it, posted it on a share forum and you can't make PCB's for others to try?
Don't be angry because someone made PCB's, be upset if they didn't acknowledge your work. Or if they implemented the circuit incorrectly therefore not giving the same results as you intended.
Unless of course you were planning on selling PCB's. Then be upset with yourself for not getting them out sooner.
Edit:
I don't think I need to write this but incase you didn't already know.. I like your work and respect your comments and tips. I see you as being above my skill level and someone I am learning from.
I also like digi01. I see him as a fellow DIY'er who is similarly trying (learning) design, and as a valuable PCB resource. Most of his PCB's are relevant to my current interests as well.
Why don’t you work "with him" and make a design you both like?
His resources that I was referring to (not as a joke) are his ability to have quality PCB's made practically over night at VERY reasonable prices.
Every Engineer has successes and failures.. He is just learning design and this forum is the ideal place to learn and experiment.
His "audio buffer" may not be perfect. But then I won't order one... Hopefully he will learn from the mistakes and not ignore good FREE advice from others.
I was hoping that he would just have PCB's made from Upupa's design which is as close as I've seen to perfect. But that is another thread.
Anyway, why don't you make the PCB's? Yes it can be done with out, but most prefer with. There is a demand, and digi01 is just trying to fill it.
Everyone of us here on this "chip amp" forum copied someone else’s work... This entire forum is built on the coping and bettering of the original. Are we hypocrites? I designed it, posted it on a share forum and you can't make PCB's for others to try?
Don't be angry because someone made PCB's, be upset if they didn't acknowledge your work. Or if they implemented the circuit incorrectly therefore not giving the same results as you intended.
Unless of course you were planning on selling PCB's. Then be upset with yourself for not getting them out sooner.
Edit:
I don't think I need to write this but incase you didn't already know.. I like your work and respect your comments and tips. I see you as being above my skill level and someone I am learning from.
I also like digi01. I see him as a fellow DIY'er who is similarly trying (learning) design, and as a valuable PCB resource. Most of his PCB's are relevant to my current interests as well.
good post Troy
I wonder if the thousands of people who were involved in the production and delivery of these chips respect audiophiles who don't make their own caps and chokes and snubbers?
OMG !! What if they only respect the people who put it all together? Or worse, just the people who pay them?
What if they're saving up for a pair of these? http://www.acousticalart.com/pages/3/index.htm
Merry Christmas to them anyway. 😀
I wonder if the thousands of people who were involved in the production and delivery of these chips respect audiophiles who don't make their own caps and chokes and snubbers?
OMG !! What if they only respect the people who put it all together? Or worse, just the people who pay them?
What if they're saving up for a pair of these? http://www.acousticalart.com/pages/3/index.htm
Merry Christmas to them anyway. 😀
Carlos, I respect and appreciate your findings. But sorry bud I cannot hold it back I have to say this -
These words that you have said can never come out of a true diyer or hobbyist or a fellow forum member.
It might be "too simple" for you but what about the VAST MAJORITY of visitors on these forums that are below your knowledge/skill level, those who sincerely seek true knowledge about the subject and from people like you who can provide it ? You might be an expert with GREAT knowledge and skills but are you trying to say that people with lesser knowledge and skills are not welcome here ? Where did you gain all this knowledge from in the first place anyway ?
Those I feel are very arrogant and offensive statements - go ask a beginner which you once probably were. Alas, the diy fraternity has to see this day.
And whats wrong with PCBs dude ? Because someone else beat you to it ?
Also, to me it appears that you are contradicting yourself. You ackowledge the theory exists since a long time.
But then in the same breath you don't want to let go because you spent a few evenings coming up with an optimum value ? How crazy's that ?
Again, your contribution is valuable but....
Upupa Epops said:
I think it was Jonathan Carr that said some time ago here that National made these chips as high quality, but they never thought they were to be taken so much seriously.
Their faces went pinky when Jeff Rowland started buying LM3886 chips to make high-end amps.😀
rabstg said:
Hah!
Another good joke! 😀
PS: this was my last schematic on diyaudio.com
Just to set the record straight -
I hope you are not thinking that people actually want a seperate pcb for a resistor and capacitor in series, are you ? Its about a pcb that 'includes' such an arrangement. Like SO MANY things, it doesn't have to be but it would be nice to have.
And as far as my suggestion is concerned it was about suggesting already existing pcb suppliers to include this as an improvement or enhancement in their next version. That it would be nice to have but if you cant provide it I can wire it myself. Man, whats the big deal....
percy said:
Ha!
I didn't think of that.
No, t. was talking (like me) about adding two big caps and snubbers to your existing amps.
Rocket science, you know?😀
I have my own PCBs with diodes and place for big caps (or not) for much more time than the oldest kit available here.
But I'm not interested in selling PCBs.
Even then, respect and education is a nice thing to have.
You guys seem to have difficulty in understanding that.
In understanding that you must politely ask permission.
Understanding that a simple e-mail would do.
Understanding that I have the right to choose my friends.
Understanding that I'm attacked by the "marketing crew" (and friends) because they must feel the danger in loosing their business.
Suddenly, their amps are no good...
Suddenly for some, not for me.
Some members are just here to SPAM and sell you whatever they do, even if it's the best looking C R A P on earth.😀
Hi all,
perhaps i should start a new thread each time I present an idea or even a finished pcb.some people are sensitive.
I post this design in this thread, totally start from the compliments to carlosfm.in fact,it has finished a couple of months ago.
the edition is based on the article of NS AN1192,page 12.a typical unregulated bipolar power supply.
here is the original post:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=462230#post462230
purpose for BPA200 or generic using.
rabstg understand me,I had took my scientific article a few days ago.I have more time enjoy my hobby next year.
PEACE!
Merry Christmas!!
digi🙂
perhaps i should start a new thread each time I present an idea or even a finished pcb.some people are sensitive.
I post this design in this thread, totally start from the compliments to carlosfm.in fact,it has finished a couple of months ago.
the edition is based on the article of NS AN1192,page 12.a typical unregulated bipolar power supply.
here is the original post:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=462230#post462230
purpose for BPA200 or generic using.
rabstg understand me,I had took my scientific article a few days ago.I have more time enjoy my hobby next year.
PEACE!
Merry Christmas!!
digi🙂
Sorry it worked out like this Carlos. My feelings would be a bit hurt to if I did some work and shared it, then someone else made PCBs out of it without so much as talking to me. My feelings would be a bit hurt, but you've got to understand we're all here to share knowledge (I hope). You tossed your ideas out in the open and although it would have been the nice and polite thing to do to consult you before pressing forward on your ideas sometimes people aren't nice and polite.
I'm also sorry you've decided not to share any more of your work here. You're obviously extremely talented and knowldgable. I've enjoyed hearing your ideas and learning from your posts. Thanks for all the work you've contributed and I hope to still see you around these forums.
I'm also sorry you've decided not to share any more of your work here. You're obviously extremely talented and knowldgable. I've enjoyed hearing your ideas and learning from your posts. Thanks for all the work you've contributed and I hope to still see you around these forums.
i'll get to that later.
- yes,
- yes of course,
- i believe you,
- you are righ about that!
- Never had that experience (alas 😉 )
- That's not only the problem here, there will always be all kinds of nasty people around. That's the problem with *people* in general.
Dear Carlos, absolutely no offense intended but...
I really can't see why you seem to be so upset about some guy making a few generic ps reservoir cap pcbs, even (unlikely) if he makes a few bucks with them. It's not your design, you've "only" been fiddling with component values, the scematics to this large cap bank ps design are more general/good practise than anything else.
Back to the top line of my post, what should digi01 have asked permission for? Including a few holes and tracks for existing technology on a pcb that will be used almost exclusively by a few lazy guys? Nah.
I, as an audio-electronic nitwit, have been blessed with you sharing your experience in these matters and would hate to loose you as an active, helpful member of the diy community. Yuo've provided the community with more than just a hint or an answer, you've lifted the whole gainclone thing from being nothing more than a neat gadget for people with immensely expensive high efficiency horn speakers to a really useable, very good all-round amplifier!
The fact that this was not purely done by ground-breaking research/rocket science but also by porting existing (psu) technology to the gainclone front does not matter, not in the least. It rather shows your willingness to go beyond the dogmatic approach to building, in this case, clones. That alone is quite an enlightenment around here.
This, and your drive to get the most out of a given system (fiddle, fiddle 😉) has lead to the schematics you've posted here on diyaudio, i reckon.
I repeat that it would be a shame to loose you as an active member.
t' has become longer than i thought it would be, this reply.
hoezo veren in reet?
m0tion said:
There is no example of anyone who has made PCBs for group buy or sale that implement any of Carlos' schematics.
moving_electron said:
This is a correct statement as far as I can tell.. The closest board related to anything that Carlos did was the Regulator PCB (LM338).
Here's what I recall digi doing, and where I think the original idea came from:
- Inverted LM3886 amp board (thorsten posted this a few years ago)
- Generic LM317/LT1058/LM338 Regulator board (Carlos and I think Pedja complained about this one)
- Opamp/BUF634 (Burrbrown Datasheet)
- Resevoir Capacitor Board (???? Who cares? It's a board with caps on it!!)
- Inverter board/Balanced Line Driver (Another datasheet??)
Carlos seems to be complaining about these being combined in the ways that he's suggested in some of his posts.
Quite frankly, I appreciate Carlos and other's suggestions, but I think that all this complaining about somebody making PCBs has just gotten out of hand.
Carlos, you have the option of sharing or not. You should realize that once you post on here, you're pretty much putting it in the public domain for people to do as they wish with it. Like I've said, I personally appreciate your contributions, I just don't understand the animosity towards digi.
I would guess most folks following the chip amp forum can remember who came up with what ideas and in what combinations, so he's certainly no threat to your reputation.
motherone said:
While none of the techniques are remotely new (engineers have considered these problems decades ago), and I expect anything posted here will be copied - possibly by many people in the form of a group buy, I'll side with Carlos on this issue.
Organising one or two group buys to help out others is one thing - five in less than a year seems beyond odd. I've organised a group buy before (not here) and it's a huge pain in the backside. No one is that keen.
That the PCBs are cheap as chips makes no difference. When something makes no sense it's good to have a closer look and five supposedly not for profit group buys in such a short space of time makes no sense. None. Not unless you're making some money and then it isn't a group buy is it?
An interesting rule might be to allow only "group buy" status for one project per person (or per person per year or every other year if only once seems too restrictive.) This allows / forces others to learn the joys of PCB design if they want to clone the latest trendy circuit idea they find here. It also prevents someone from using the forum as promotion for commercial products.
I proposed some other rules for group buys in another thread about two months or so ago. Rules like all documentation and design docs (including gerber files) being free and available and open accounting of all income and expenses for a project to be called a "group buy" and be exempt from the rules governing commercial activity here.
Rules could be made that wouldn't allow anyone to claim that a "group buy" is a cover for a commercial enterprise. It'd certainly save a lot of whinging and moderator headaches.
jeff mai said:
Hmm.. Group buy or not, he's still doing a service to the DIY folks, encouraging people who obviously wouldn't build some of the projects to give 'em a try. If there's a market for it, maybe DIY audio should try to encourage it. Maybe he should just not refer to them as group buys, then. I don't know.
jeff mai said:
Maybe so. I don't think he'd have a problem setting anyone up with the gerber files. All his documentation is in his posts (are you referring to outside docs? i.e. PDF file?).
Mainly the people who are complaining are complaining because they think he's stealing or copying their ideas. It just pains me that this happens every few weeks, and fact of the matter is, they've all copied other's ideas as well. It's just a big ball of hypocrisy.
Jeff has a good point.
On this place people call everything "group buys".
A group buy is supposed to be something that's organized by someone to get prices down on parts, PCBs, etc.
I signed in a group buy from member AndyPairo to get some Crystal chips at a very good price.
Excellent group buy offer.
Calling group buys to these PCB kits available from several members (including Digi) is ironic, to say the least.
Actually, this whole site is looking more like a shopping mall than anything else.
I'm outa here.
On this place people call everything "group buys".
A group buy is supposed to be something that's organized by someone to get prices down on parts, PCBs, etc.
I signed in a group buy from member AndyPairo to get some Crystal chips at a very good price.
Excellent group buy offer.
Calling group buys to these PCB kits available from several members (including Digi) is ironic, to say the least.
Actually, this whole site is looking more like a shopping mall than anything else.
I'm outa here.
I think digi shows much energy and dedication and just becasue you couldn't pull it through smoothely, doesn't mean that your experience shall be viewed as some sort of norm. I think you should look back and think for yourself what you could have done in order to run things smoother.jeff mai said:
Notice also that digi's projects have been very small and with almost zero time in development.
motherone said:
Shouldn't you have to pay for ad space if it isn't a group buy? Other vendors do. Fair play. He'd have to charge more to pay for advertising, but DIYAudio.com would get some revenue. Isn't this a good thing?
Just make sure you aren't biased on the issue because a source of cheap PCBs will dry up.
motherone said:
The rule would encompass any and all design and supporting docs. This would allow anyone to easily build the project without participating in the group buy.
motherone said:
I'm not complaining about this aspect.
The question is: does DIYAudio.com allow commercial activity in non-paid forums or not?
I think you have proved your point pretty many times now but mention _one_ group buy where the prices have been a bit over the top! The good truth is that you can't find any bad deal and the fact is that most group deal have been carried out rather well. One question mark is mayby kari Hästös activities but I'll hope he pull it through.carlosfm said:
Along with BrianGT/Peter Daniel digi is very successful which only means that he has delivered something people want to dirt cheap prices and the boards qualitywise are of top quality.
If we all take a step backwards, perspective!
Big, small activity, big small problem, much little money, big small projects?
carlosfm said:
It's good to see a man strong enough to stand by his convictions and vote with his feet.
Good bye Carlos.
BTW: I think this is all a storm in a tea cup.
peranders said:
Clever response, but I think I'd have no trouble getting other group buy organisers to back me up. It's a pain in the bum. Period.
The moderators may be satisfied that there is no sneaky commercial enterprise going on, but without transparency it looks fishy to some of us.
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