Re: Re: A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
Really? I thought only the pim does that😉
The Butcher😀
jackinnj said:
Really? I thought only the pim does that😉
The Butcher😀
percy said:
PCBs yes, what you don't see in SS, Pass, Tubes, Digital or any other of the far more technically complex forums are the petty flamefests that erupt here regularly. It's worth considering how they start in this least challenging of forums. (Apologies to buffer experimenters.)
As someone who started in audio by diving into 25 kV+ supply transmitters, I think pre-fab PCB's are great. They give new DIYers a gentle intro to the art and provide an easy climb to that rewarding first accomplishment. No one here was born knowing how to solder or assemble circuits. Some go no further, others take to it and become avid contributors. Others yet just want a cheap and cheerful means to hear if the Gainclone concept has merit. At the end of the day who cares if a few leave with "cheap a hi-fi"? They leave quietly and do far less damage than what's going on now.
and in that case you could simply point that guy to those articles you were referring to and let him do his homework first but outrightly unwelcoming him and consciously treating him with disdain (I cant believe you actually said that) is IMHO simply not acceptable.
So a guy buys a Velleman kit(just an example) and needs help with a problem. He should'nt even bother posting here, correct ?
percy said:
Why is it not acceptable? This is not WDIFYAudio.com (We Do It For You) it is DIYAudio.com (see my signature if you're wondering what DIY means.) In essence the poster asking for connect-the-dots help is saying "I can't be bothered with learning or even looking for what I need to know - you fix/find it and post it for me here in a nice neat little package."
Woe betide any of us cranky people suggesting www.google.com or the local search engine as a means of finding the answer!
BTW - I always ignore my urges to reply with scorn to these types of posts. I just ignore them, but they do bother me. This rant is the result of suppressed hostility.
percy said:
I'd say he has more than one problem if he isn't clever enough to contact Velleman. Technical support is usually included in kits.
Can a mod please close this thread? It's gone straight to hell in here and it's no longer useful other than for archival purposes.
Jeff, just thought of you and had to post a litle something:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48305
just makes you happy doesn't it?😀
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48305
just makes you happy doesn't it?😀
demogorgon said:
I don't see your point. The original post looks like a polite and valid request for help. Some folks are helping and the original poster is learning some things as are others in the same position who are reading the post. Seems like a very good use of the forum for those folks. How does it adversly affect you?
Closing this thread won't stop this argument. You can close down the tavern, but the drunks will just find another place to have the same rants over and over again.
Jeff Mai- Let me make a point. It's clear that you want rules drawn up to limit certain types of posts. If it's about commercialism and advertising, we have rules here and you should let the mods deal with it. It you have issues, I'm sure you would be better off contacting them privately.
If it's about the quality of queries or the expertise or educational ethos of the posters themselves, this might be called elitism, and suggests a hypocrisy contradicting the spirit that grew this site. I've tried to point out that we are all consumers on some level, none of us do-it-all ourselves, and your trying to draw a line in the sand, somewhere shy of your abilities and interests about the definition of DIY is uselessly self-serving, especially in light of public analysis a priori.
I'm not trying to offend you or anyone, but only to try and construct another frame of reference that might help with positive growth. I suspect many of us aren't inclined to impliment every design or tweak we read about here, whether we fully understand them or not, but enjoy reading and understanding as we can. The posts I don't enjoy say something like, "i'm not going to tell you any more." or "I've said all this before, go look for it." What purpose does it serve except to display personal ego?
As my Mom would say, "Those who take their ball and go home, can't complain about having to play with themselves." We have our choice to participate as we wish. My area of expertise is in the area of home construction and I willingly answer questions from anyone. I've found that in these trades, the people who are secretive about their knowledge, are trying to hide their ignorance or unwillingness to learn.
Let's take your statement and look at it from my prospective.
I'd say that the majority of people want cheap hi-fi with a minimum of effort and learning on their part. I don't see this as DIY. I see this as getting something for free (expertise) that they would usually have to pay for (in the form of a finished product.)
I get questions from nearly everyone in all settings. I don't consider myself an MD giving out free medical advice and I certainly don't adopt the attitude that since they don't have my knowledge, they must pay me for my advice. Lawyers do that because it's their only real stock in trade. As I've said before, we don't get to choose our epiphanies. But if we could, who then would you respect?
Am I insulted or have distain for these people? I would, IF I thought they wouldn't have even more respect for what I do as they learn themselves, and IF I didn't think there were opportunities for me to learn and grow myself.
We share something as we frequent this site, lets concentrate on that which helped it to grow. I suspect it has more to do with generosity than elitism.
Jeff Mai- Let me make a point. It's clear that you want rules drawn up to limit certain types of posts. If it's about commercialism and advertising, we have rules here and you should let the mods deal with it. It you have issues, I'm sure you would be better off contacting them privately.
If it's about the quality of queries or the expertise or educational ethos of the posters themselves, this might be called elitism, and suggests a hypocrisy contradicting the spirit that grew this site. I've tried to point out that we are all consumers on some level, none of us do-it-all ourselves, and your trying to draw a line in the sand, somewhere shy of your abilities and interests about the definition of DIY is uselessly self-serving, especially in light of public analysis a priori.
I'm not trying to offend you or anyone, but only to try and construct another frame of reference that might help with positive growth. I suspect many of us aren't inclined to impliment every design or tweak we read about here, whether we fully understand them or not, but enjoy reading and understanding as we can. The posts I don't enjoy say something like, "i'm not going to tell you any more." or "I've said all this before, go look for it." What purpose does it serve except to display personal ego?
As my Mom would say, "Those who take their ball and go home, can't complain about having to play with themselves." We have our choice to participate as we wish. My area of expertise is in the area of home construction and I willingly answer questions from anyone. I've found that in these trades, the people who are secretive about their knowledge, are trying to hide their ignorance or unwillingness to learn.
Let's take your statement and look at it from my prospective.
I'd say that the majority of people want cheap hi-fi with a minimum of effort and learning on their part. I don't see this as DIY. I see this as getting something for free (expertise) that they would usually have to pay for (in the form of a finished product.)
I get questions from nearly everyone in all settings. I don't consider myself an MD giving out free medical advice and I certainly don't adopt the attitude that since they don't have my knowledge, they must pay me for my advice. Lawyers do that because it's their only real stock in trade. As I've said before, we don't get to choose our epiphanies. But if we could, who then would you respect?
Am I insulted or have distain for these people? I would, IF I thought they wouldn't have even more respect for what I do as they learn themselves, and IF I didn't think there were opportunities for me to learn and grow myself.
We share something as we frequent this site, lets concentrate on that which helped it to grow. I suspect it has more to do with generosity than elitism.
m0tion said:
Better yet, relocate the over (did not bother to figure exactly) 80% of unrelated (valuable) discussion to a dedicated thread perhaps in the "everything else" forum, and keep this thread focused on a very interesting and worth exploring issue, the why's and how's of Carlos discovery (reportedly worth trying, yet to be substantiated and independently comfirmed).
Rodolfo
demogorgon said:
Sad, very very sad for this forum to see this post by demogorgon.
But you know, on second thoughts, there were eight replies to that post and will probably be more. People are helping him. That assures me that there are many more people on this forum with good attitude than bad. The best thing to do at this point (better than moving the thread I'd say) is simply ignore the bad ones.
The post was not ment to be a bashing of the guy who opned it, it was a poke in the side for Jeff Mai.
From my point of view it was humorus, though noone who know me will claim my humor is normal. i thought this was funny, nothing more.
-marius
From my point of view it was humorus, though noone who know me will claim my humor is normal. i thought this was funny, nothing more.
-marius
and as for me me being "out of here" part, what total ****, i just cant stay away. I will have to watch my own actions a litle more carefully though..
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