Re: Re: A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
Bingo. Be a good citizen and report suspicious activity but let the forum police handle the discipline.
A negative post about a person should not be read here. This is a "thing" forum not a person forum.
motherone said:
Bingo. Be a good citizen and report suspicious activity but let the forum police handle the discipline.
A negative post about a person should not be read here. This is a "thing" forum not a person forum.
Perspective guys. Remember, this entire forum is based on a copy of another's design: the original Gaincard. Going off the rails because one person adds space for an RC network to a PCB is a bit much.
m0tion said:
Here is a fact:
Many do not care how many others participate in a given project.
Is this forum about DIY or promotion of group projects? If it takes prefabbed stuff to get people interested, there is a ton of prefabbed audio gear on eBay. There are even commerical vendors that sell audio kits and PCBs.
My point is that if DIYAudio.com is going to "bless" certain projects as exempt from advertising guidelines that there should be some clear cut rules.
percy said:
Hardly. The response doesn't address whether DIYAudio.com is about DIY or promotion of group projects.
I simply can not belive how much this board has changed from only this summer when i started peeking at DIY audio.
there was very obviously comersial factors here then as well, but not anywhere as pressing as they are now.
and as for the asumption that done made pcb's make people study the theory behind the product they are creating could not be more dead wrong. the people who solderd the boards with the pieces just cry out for help, making other people do their work for them.
It's a shame it has gone this way with it all, the chipamp part of the forum.
SO: good bye!
I'm out of here. (maby some of you will se me at the solid state part though..)
there was very obviously comersial factors here then as well, but not anywhere as pressing as they are now.
and as for the asumption that done made pcb's make people study the theory behind the product they are creating could not be more dead wrong. the people who solderd the boards with the pieces just cry out for help, making other people do their work for them.
It's a shame it has gone this way with it all, the chipamp part of the forum.
SO: good bye!
I'm out of here. (maby some of you will se me at the solid state part though..)
Re: A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
A PRO is someone who takes money for pleasure.
chris ma said:
A PRO is someone who takes money for pleasure.
Well that does take one off the list for sure - the fifteen pages of fuss over copying what is not even your very own.
About what diyaudio.com is all about - I leave it to the moderators to decide. They work their a*ses out (and pockets probably) to keep this thing running so they reserve the right to decide. By the way I still fail to understand what disadvantage it would be to anyone if there were group buys/projects out here. oh wait I understand...except for some who play the tune of being "in the true spirit of diy" but are actually burnt because someone else stole the show. Hypocrites.
you are not getting the point. I will leave it at that. On the same lines - self made pcb's dont make people study the theory behind the product either.
Now we have found a true hobbyist amongst us who loves helping others.
Why ? They dont use ready made PCBs over there ?
**** and get back to work percy said:
HEY!
Does the chair where you sit really have a seat?😀
Frankly, do you need to post that way?
Look guy: we are talking electronics and all that guys like you wanna do is discussing enclosures.
The rest of the job you want someone to do it for you, right?
I repeat:
Don't touch an electrical device!!!
You can get hurt.
percy said:
Food for thought:
Group buys of PCBs undercut vendors wishing to sell commercial PCBs. The group buys will always be cheaper as there is no need to support an independent web site or pay advertising fees. They use DIYAudio.com for promotion. This impacts potential advertising income for DIYAudio.com. It may be a small thing now, but it will be hard to untangle things later if it becomes bigger and DIYAudio.com decides it would like to attract more advertising revenue.
The support questions arising from a large group buy cause increased traffic on the site - someone has to pay for the storage space and bandwidth.
This is just to point out two of the obvious disadvantages. There are many more.
BTW, I am not against group buys.
I am in favour of rules for group buys. Rules restrictive enough that no one could logically confuse them for a commercial activity. It is possible to make such rules.
I am in favour of rules for group buys. Rules restrictive enough that no one could logically confuse them for a commercial activity. It is possible to make such rules.
Problem with group buys.......
Some guy buys a PCB.
Copies it on a copying machine.
Posts the layout here. "Patented by *-*" on it. (No, I am not talking about P-A..........)
Becomes a group buy, for much less than he paid for it.
The guy who built it loses business. Hey, we believe in free enterprise, capitalism, all that stuff. So, if someone makes one cheaper, tough.
Right?
Only right if they didn't copy it.
Now the punchline.........
One of you guys buys one, has problems with it.......e-mails the company that made it.......expects them to tell him how to make it work.
When they don't (would you?), unhappy DIYer goes off and trashes said company on several forums.
Yeah, in principle, good idea. The way it happens around here, sometimes burns the innocent.
Jocko
Some guy buys a PCB.
Copies it on a copying machine.
Posts the layout here. "Patented by *-*" on it. (No, I am not talking about P-A..........)
Becomes a group buy, for much less than he paid for it.
The guy who built it loses business. Hey, we believe in free enterprise, capitalism, all that stuff. So, if someone makes one cheaper, tough.
Right?
Only right if they didn't copy it.
Now the punchline.........
One of you guys buys one, has problems with it.......e-mails the company that made it.......expects them to tell him how to make it work.
When they don't (would you?), unhappy DIYer goes off and trashes said company on several forums.
Yeah, in principle, good idea. The way it happens around here, sometimes burns the innocent.
Jocko
carlosfm said:
HEY!
Does the chair where you sit really have a seat?😀
Frankly, do you need to post that way?
Look guy: we are talking electronics and all that guys like you wanna do is discussing enclosures.
The rest of the job you want someone to do it for you, right?
I repeat:
Don't touch an electrical device!!!
You can get hurt.
Carlos, you are correct. I, along with all the other folks who use PC Boards, am an imbecile. I don't have the time to spend testing snubbers, so I want you to build an amp for me. If I send you a check, can you have it done for me in a few weeks?
I really don't understand where you're coming from. You've been crapping on someone who actually thought your idea was good enough to etch into fiberglass and copper. All he did was make a generic postive voltage regulator board. On top of that, he got many more folks to try several of yours and other folks (thorsten's?) ideas.
Now you complain that he is creating a commercial venture based on your work, which in reality, is an amalgamation of stuff from 47 labs and National Semi/Burr Brown data sheets. You attack someone saying that "Look guy: we are talking electronics and all that guys like you wanna do is discussing enclosures," while all of your circuits are based on manufacturers data sheets! Rather than try to figure out the source of the problems, you just keep throwing schematic after schematic at it. That's not engineering a solution, that's that's throwing darts with a blindfold on.
Folks that have tried to explain that Digi is helping more people try your ideas than normally would. You reply with personal attacks on them. Heck, Moving Electron even made a post to try and get this thing back on topic, to which I followed up with some material on how to compensate for the inductance in power supplies.
But you skimmed right over it and went back to beating the same dead horse. I guess my input doesn't matter since I like PCBs, and my information wasn't presented in a manufacturer's data sheet.
I'll just ignore that....doesn't deserve a response.
Motherone, for a moment I thought too why am I wasting my time discussing this but then the subjects at hand are really important. Someone just cannot make their own rules about copying, PCBing(there I even have a new word now), group buys etc.. Whatever comes out of this, it should be what MAJORITY of the people want. On second thoughts, is there a possibility of creating a "POLL" on the forum...let me check that...
Re: Problem with group buys.......
Jocko,
I have no idea what you're talking about. The majority of the group buys I have seen have nothing to do with anyone else's PCB's. Usually the PCB is either from the Mfg. Datasheet, or is a tweaked version based on it. So while it may be a "potential" problem with group buys (I don't know the incident you're citing), you can't make a blanket statement that all group buys are defrauding commercial ventures.
This doesn't even begin to cover the group buys that are for parts only (Cardas binding posts, enclosures, heatsinks, etc.).
Jocko Homo said:
Jocko,
I have no idea what you're talking about. The majority of the group buys I have seen have nothing to do with anyone else's PCB's. Usually the PCB is either from the Mfg. Datasheet, or is a tweaked version based on it. So while it may be a "potential" problem with group buys (I don't know the incident you're citing), you can't make a blanket statement that all group buys are defrauding commercial ventures.
This doesn't even begin to cover the group buys that are for parts only (Cardas binding posts, enclosures, heatsinks, etc.).
percy said:
That's utterly ridiculous. Pure democracy = mob rule. Some rules and protections must be in place that cannot be negated by popular opinion.
Judging from the popularity of some of the group buys and the increasing number of "please connect the dots for me" posts, I'd say that the majority of people want cheap hi-fi with a minimum of effort and learning on their part. I don't see this as DIY. I see this as getting something for free (expertise) that they would usually have to pay for (in the form of a finished product.)
Example: if someone wants to know how to retrofit a new power supply to an existing chip amp PCB, they could learn about power supplies by reading the archives or the 1000s of other web pages on the topic and figure out how to do it themselves (DIY) or they could ask someone how to do it (not DIY.) There isn't any excuse for not learning how to do it that isn't insulting to those that have taken the time to figure it out.
It's fine to ask a few questions if you're trying to learn and genuinely hope to contribute to the forum later, but many posts asking for help clearly do not fit this category.
Never heard that before.
This is JUST TOO MUCH!
What's next after clear cut rules for group buys ? "Clear cut" rules for who should post and what and how many times !???!
Basically you are saying that only experts and people with experience and those can contribute should post. you are actually proposing to close the doors instead of throwing them open...nowhere in the many many forums that I visit on the internet have I seen a proposal so ridiculous. And who exactly will be the judge of whether a post qualifies to be in your so called "diy" forum ? Is this a public forum or a concentration camp??!!
OUTRAGEOUS! SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS!
percy said:
Nowhere in my post did I say this.
Basically what I said was that if you are here to get cheap/free stuff while learning as little as possible, you should expect to be treated with disdain. And that even if you are here to learn, but allow your posts to look as though you're just after cheap/free stuff while learning as little as possible, you should similarly expect to be treated with disdain.
Consider my prior hypothetical example of wanting to figure out how to retrofit a power supply to an existing PCB. One could read one or two existing articles about power supplies and ask specific questions demonstrating that some effort was made to learn the material, or you could skip all that and ask someone here to draw a picture of how to hook it up.
If you're asking someone to spend effort to help you, spend some effort beforehand!!!!!!!
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