... but it's good that a very few people stand above the trouble and are nice guys with no or little reward.jeff mai said:
We have summerized before likely profits and we don't talk about millions exactly.jeff mai said:
Finally, I'd like to add this:
That Digi would post regarding his new PCB within this thread that Carlos started and do so after much previous conflict shows a staggerring lack of sensitivity. He had to know it would irritate Carlos very much and he didn't care.
That Digi would post regarding his new PCB within this thread that Carlos started and do so after much previous conflict shows a staggerring lack of sensitivity. He had to know it would irritate Carlos very much and he didn't care.
peranders said:
It's a shame that no one says: "No digi, you've gone to enough trouble. I'll take on this next project. I need to learn how to design a PCB myself." It's a wonder he puts up with this selfish lot. 😉
A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
There is double standard here in the forum! Not only this is more and more like a shopping mall, it is giving diyer's a lazy way out without learning, trying, planing, questioning! worst than spoon feeding! Oh how do U...um never mind DIGI ! give me this PCB now!
It is really a shame!
The Butcher
😀
There is double standard here in the forum! Not only this is more and more like a shopping mall, it is giving diyer's a lazy way out without learning, trying, planing, questioning! worst than spoon feeding! Oh how do U...um never mind DIGI ! give me this PCB now!
It is really a shame!
The Butcher
😀
Heh, you guys are crazy. Is this electrical engineering school? Are you seriously saying "Oh, we should implement policies that restrict short-cuts in order to promote personal learning"? Interesting idea, but I've gotta tell you fellas, you're nuts.
Here are the facts. It doesn't matter how cool, how great, how easy, or how cheap a particular circuit is you are automatically going to lose a lot of interest if there is not a pre-fabbed PCB available. Is this because the people on this forum are lazy? Maybe they aren't interested in learning about audio? No... making a PCB is (for most people) is at least a giant pain and for some people simply an excercise in frustration. Short:
Having PCBs available on this forum is a "Good Thing". It allows people to get involved in projects (especially beginners) who would not ordinarily be able to get involved. For a few it may prevent them from ever learning to make a PCB on their own because they don't have to, but for the majority it is what allows them to get involved in building circuits.
Here are the facts. It doesn't matter how cool, how great, how easy, or how cheap a particular circuit is you are automatically going to lose a lot of interest if there is not a pre-fabbed PCB available. Is this because the people on this forum are lazy? Maybe they aren't interested in learning about audio? No... making a PCB is (for most people) is at least a giant pain and for some people simply an excercise in frustration. Short:
Having PCBs available on this forum is a "Good Thing". It allows people to get involved in projects (especially beginners) who would not ordinarily be able to get involved. For a few it may prevent them from ever learning to make a PCB on their own because they don't have to, but for the majority it is what allows them to get involved in building circuits.
All-
Do you remember being a teenager and the fire you had for something? Girls, cars, stereos, computers, fishing or whatever.
Mine was audio with an especially strong interest in car audio (I was a teenager).
Well some people are SLIGHTLY restrained until their college years.
I remember not sleeping for days because I was working on "projects" when I was younger.
digi01 is a student with HUGE enthusiasm.. His culture and language are different. MISS-understandings are not only common but also EXPECTED.
Carlos-
digi made PCB's from YOUR posts. He never said, "look what I did". What he did in his culture is considered paying homage. He liked what you presented and staked cash, moola, hard currency on it because he just knew you were right. That is trust and respect..
If you can't tell by now from all the postings, you are considered a respected and admired member here on the forum.
Just remember that miss-understanding WILL happen.
As you can see I'm trying desperately to make peace between you two. I understand dig01's perspective from my living in Asia a few yrs ago. I have not lived in Portugal but ASSUME from observations that you are similar to the Italians and VERY passionate about your interests.
With digi01's OVER enthusiasm and eagerness to DO it is easy for things to go wrong or NOT as intended.
I sold chassis on this forum. I needed to have some made so I had "extras" made in case others needed one. I sold 7 or 8 of them for $5.00 over cost. I then donated $10.00 for each one I sold to this forum. Selling the few made this forum some cash, and I donated some out of my pocket.
digi is not doing GB's he is having boards made and offering them to LIKE minded people who would like some. If he does make any money from them it is VERY little. I would suggest to him to continue his activities but be forth coming about his cost/profit so there is no-one thinking he is getting rich from this, and to also donate some to this forum so we can all continue to waste our time reading this type of useless post.
Do you remember being a teenager and the fire you had for something? Girls, cars, stereos, computers, fishing or whatever.
Mine was audio with an especially strong interest in car audio (I was a teenager).
Well some people are SLIGHTLY restrained until their college years.
I remember not sleeping for days because I was working on "projects" when I was younger.
digi01 is a student with HUGE enthusiasm.. His culture and language are different. MISS-understandings are not only common but also EXPECTED.
Carlos-
digi made PCB's from YOUR posts. He never said, "look what I did". What he did in his culture is considered paying homage. He liked what you presented and staked cash, moola, hard currency on it because he just knew you were right. That is trust and respect..
If you can't tell by now from all the postings, you are considered a respected and admired member here on the forum.
Just remember that miss-understanding WILL happen.
As you can see I'm trying desperately to make peace between you two. I understand dig01's perspective from my living in Asia a few yrs ago. I have not lived in Portugal but ASSUME from observations that you are similar to the Italians and VERY passionate about your interests.
With digi01's OVER enthusiasm and eagerness to DO it is easy for things to go wrong or NOT as intended.
I sold chassis on this forum. I needed to have some made so I had "extras" made in case others needed one. I sold 7 or 8 of them for $5.00 over cost. I then donated $10.00 for each one I sold to this forum. Selling the few made this forum some cash, and I donated some out of my pocket.
digi is not doing GB's he is having boards made and offering them to LIKE minded people who would like some. If he does make any money from them it is VERY little. I would suggest to him to continue his activities but be forth coming about his cost/profit so there is no-one thinking he is getting rich from this, and to also donate some to this forum so we can all continue to waste our time reading this type of useless post.
WE SHOULD INVITE VELLEMAN KITS TO POST ALL THEIR KITS HERE SO THAT WE CAN ALL GET GOING FAST!
The Butcher😀
The Butcher😀
Agreed. The matter of group buys on PCBs is secondary to the lack of common courtesy. A private email would have been far more appropriate than trolling in the thread Carlos started.
widman
Re: A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
Yes, many may want a PCB to get a more straightforward and deterministic way to get the board done. I suppose it could be trying to find the most efficient way to deterministically get good sound. Is that really be so bad?
Or they may be:
- Putting more effort into some other aspect. Learning how to acquire parts (if a noobie), understanding the theory, focusing in higher craftsmanship in the case and wood work.
- Trying their hand at amp building as their DIY time and energy has focused on other areas such as speaker design/building etc. Perhaps they will get sucked in and expand their knowledge over the years and make a great contribution in the future. Perhaps they will build one amp and be justifyably proud and get great enjoyment from the sound.
So a distain because a DIYer wants a board indicates a lack of understanding the many reasons that someone would like to utilize a board.
Do you wind your own transformer? If not, I guess you are just looking for the lazy way out.
chris ma said:
Yes, many may want a PCB to get a more straightforward and deterministic way to get the board done. I suppose it could be trying to find the most efficient way to deterministically get good sound. Is that really be so bad?
Or they may be:
- Putting more effort into some other aspect. Learning how to acquire parts (if a noobie), understanding the theory, focusing in higher craftsmanship in the case and wood work.
- Trying their hand at amp building as their DIY time and energy has focused on other areas such as speaker design/building etc. Perhaps they will get sucked in and expand their knowledge over the years and make a great contribution in the future. Perhaps they will build one amp and be justifyably proud and get great enjoyment from the sound.
So a distain because a DIYer wants a board indicates a lack of understanding the many reasons that someone would like to utilize a board.
Do you wind your own transformer? If not, I guess you are just looking for the lazy way out.
widman said:
It turns out that a private email would probably have been better. Still I read Digi's post as as extending a hand indicating a willingness to work together if there was interest.
Probably, there is not interest.
But then I am speculating as are others.
Lets not add fuel to the fire with personal concerns or opinions. Carlos' response was pretty constrained, he obviously can speak for himself, and he and Digi can work out whatever they want between themselves.
Re: Re: A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
Well you can push it to the limit saying that I do not generate my own AC or DC power! But when someone following the threads and keep jumping in to SPAM... oh well.. I can bet if he has close connection with transformer makers he would have done the same as with the PCBs!
The Butcher😀
moving_electron said:
Well you can push it to the limit saying that I do not generate my own AC or DC power! But when someone following the threads and keep jumping in to SPAM... oh well.. I can bet if he has close connection with transformer makers he would have done the same as with the PCBs!
The Butcher😀
How does the skill and knowledge of fabricating a PCB increase the skill and knowlegde about the actual project being built - like a GC, or a vaccum tube amp or a digital decoder ? I fail to understand the relation between being able to make your own PCB and being able to design and build a kickass GC amp (or for the matter of fact any diy project).
From what it takes to make a PCB - design, fabricate, fooling around with chemicals etc.. If I had a way out (which you refer to as the lazy way out) I would gladly take it and spend my time learning more about the ACTUAL project!
And where do you draw the line ? Where exactly does it stop becoming DIY ?
Especially for something like a GC where everything is in that chip, you just have to build a wrapper around it. Its hard for me to believe you consider that as a DIY, but just getting a ready made PCB for mounting the chip and five more components while everything else remains the same is not diy ?!
You are actually discouraging and trying to make it more difficult and shooing away a new diyer.
rabstg said:
Agreed. I have also lived in Asia for months at a time over the last few years.
This attitude seems very much evident in early Chinese literature, where whole books were written in the name of someone else, because of the enormous respect for that other person.
That this is something we in the "west" find difficult to understand will naturally cause misunderstanding.
And Digi, after all, did say, "I post this design in this thread, totally start from the compliments to carlosfm."
Carlos, I have huge respect for your work too. I hope to see you around, somewhere 🙂
May be this culture help China became one of the biggest country in the world regarding illegal copy softwares, hardwares, music, movies...books...IP...DVDs etc etc..
Really Funny the culture thingy 😎
The Bucther😀
Really Funny the culture thingy 😎
The Bucther😀
chris ma said:
Of course lets not claim that such things as expanding the length of copyrights to the absurd length it is now in the US, protecting Mickey Mouse for Disney everytime it would have normally lapsed on to the public domain, or the creation of a "personal persona" category so that star's estates can have unheard of protection forever etc. are particularly ethical either.
China is destined to have the worlds largest economy regardless of IP controls due to other economic and productivity factors. If IP protections are 100% enforced, it will still be the world's largest economy in 10 years or so.
By the way the US did not honor UK copyrights at least through Dickens time. When he protested publically in the US on a visit he was attacked in the press as being anti freedom.
Re: A pro is a pro is a pro is a pro
Obviously everyone here is much too amateurish. We're obviously spoon fed morons because we don't want to point-to-point wire a LM4780 or LM3886. Better still, we all extremely lazy because we haven't spent the time to learn how to design PCBs, etch them, and drill the holes.
Have you even thought about the tone and context of what you're posting?
Just because I have a life that requires me to spend my time doing something other than learning how to fab a PCB or spend a lot of time PTP wiring something, doesn't mean I don't like to experiment or learn. This is a hobby, which means things get done when I have time to work on them. Since I barely have time to follow the threads that interest, when I do have some spare minutes, I like to actually build something. PCBs are a great timesaver, and that's why they're popular in DIY. People have busy schedules. If you think that because you use someone else's PCB, it diminishes the value of their project, you're basically crapping on a huge portion of this forum. If that's the case, why bother hanging out here?
DIY Audio encompasses all things DIY.. Whether it's folks who want to design their own circuits, or build an amplifier from a someone else's schematic and PCB, you're still doing it yourself. This is why what Digi has done brings so much value to the forum. It's enabled MANY people to try something they would have simply passed over and gone "that's cute" rather than actually trying it. Why this gets lost on so many people in the forum, I'll never understand.
My last point for a lot of folks on this thread is that if you think Digi is making money off of this, speak to a moderator and have them talk to him. If he is making money, ask him to pay a small fee to post in a more appropriate forum. However, until that is known and the naysayers have an idea of what his costs are, both in time and materials, it's all pure speculation. I personally don't mind paying a few bucks for his time to organize the buy, package and ship everything.
chris ma said:
Obviously everyone here is much too amateurish. We're obviously spoon fed morons because we don't want to point-to-point wire a LM4780 or LM3886. Better still, we all extremely lazy because we haven't spent the time to learn how to design PCBs, etch them, and drill the holes.
Have you even thought about the tone and context of what you're posting?
Just because I have a life that requires me to spend my time doing something other than learning how to fab a PCB or spend a lot of time PTP wiring something, doesn't mean I don't like to experiment or learn. This is a hobby, which means things get done when I have time to work on them. Since I barely have time to follow the threads that interest, when I do have some spare minutes, I like to actually build something. PCBs are a great timesaver, and that's why they're popular in DIY. People have busy schedules. If you think that because you use someone else's PCB, it diminishes the value of their project, you're basically crapping on a huge portion of this forum. If that's the case, why bother hanging out here?
DIY Audio encompasses all things DIY.. Whether it's folks who want to design their own circuits, or build an amplifier from a someone else's schematic and PCB, you're still doing it yourself. This is why what Digi has done brings so much value to the forum. It's enabled MANY people to try something they would have simply passed over and gone "that's cute" rather than actually trying it. Why this gets lost on so many people in the forum, I'll never understand.
My last point for a lot of folks on this thread is that if you think Digi is making money off of this, speak to a moderator and have them talk to him. If he is making money, ask him to pay a small fee to post in a more appropriate forum. However, until that is known and the naysayers have an idea of what his costs are, both in time and materials, it's all pure speculation. I personally don't mind paying a few bucks for his time to organize the buy, package and ship everything.
I know that this is way off topic, and we are not talking about copyright, but the concept of copyright has coloured the western mindset since its introduction a mere century and a half ago. Until the mid-19th century at least, one could, and did, quote and use another's words or ideas freely. For example, if you bought a book, it was then seen as your property, and you could quote it or publish it as you saw fit.
How times have changed!
I only mention these half-completed thoughts in passing, 'cos I'm trying to find a balance and an understanding in this matter...
How times have changed!
I only mention these half-completed thoughts in passing, 'cos I'm trying to find a balance and an understanding in this matter...
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