useful information! What is your sound impression about this HiVi DM-7500 dome mid range? I coupled my Dynaudio D54 to a 8 inch (23 gr.) driver because the low mid range (distortion) of most domes is poor because of limited cone area and linear cone travel. A 10 inch driver is a lot more heavy..
Other question, ever though about mounting the dome and ribbon on top of the box (free standing) and correcting for time difference? This can make a huge difference in sound stage and blending.
Other question, ever though about mounting the dome and ribbon on top of the box (free standing) and correcting for time difference? This can make a huge difference in sound stage and blending.
Thanks for the question,
Very dynamic and finely resolved even at high levels.
The second order distortion doesn't seem to play a role, especially as it only rises above one percent at ~ 96dB. I listen at a distance of ~ two meters and have never managed more than 90 db 🙂
It has already been mentioned that the sound becomes a bit strange outside the axis. This is true.
But the ribbon bundles and the vertical sweat spot is somewhat limited by the high crossover frequency.
These are the only drawbacks. Horizontally, everything is fine even at an bigger angle.
HiVi 7500 can be used well from 400 hz!
I would also have preferred a slightly higher separation, but the distortion of the SB Acoustics then increases.
That doesn't mean that 10” is too big. It only applies to the inexpensive SB Acoustics. 10” with a higher Q makes it possible to produce real low bass in closed cabinets. Perhaps a higher crossover frequency would give voices more body...
The ribbon has a horn attachment and therefore the diaphragm moves backwards. The dome of the 7500 sticks out. I have therefore extended the delay of the HiVi by 2 cm.The speaker is currently on the floor and pointing upwards.
This extends the running time of the midrange driver again.
I am currently leaving everything without EQ or time delay in order to realize a passiv crossover at some point.
But if I manage to do that, then with a better bass from the Satori series with 9”.
I admit that I don't really like the distortions in the measurement of the midrange driver from a visual point of view, but I do like what comes out!
If it's really stupid, I've already destroyed more than one Hivi and a grille is a must have for the next box 🙂
No offence!
But never get why music-lowers say so, 90dB is not life-like experience?
If you go to a consert, do you wear earpluggs?
Is it only the melody and the lyrics that catches your attention?
Really want to know.
Best regards John
My room also plays a role in this.
I just optimized the reverberation and the first reflections.
I'm on the right track, I think I'll be able to hear louder once that's worked well.
The later the night, the better my ears get.
But yes, I am sensitive to higher volumes.
Have you ever used a measuring device to check how loud your music is? it's easy to overestimate it.
I noticed when i increased the crossover to 1 KHz (was 600 Hz.) and let the bass do all the heavy lifting, voices have a lot more body, saxophone's and bass vocals are full with impact. My poor 5 cm D54 dome could never do that by it self.. with low distorcion.
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Common misconception of comparing SPL of a sine sweep to real audio, the crest factor is quite different between the two signals - 3dB for sine sweep and 12dB+ for real audio. In fact, two tests of sine sweep at 86dB and 96dB can tell you information about how a speaker performs at the same listening level. 86dB shows "average SPL" result for music playback at 86dB, and 96dB shows "peak SPL" result for music playback at 86dB. This is an over-generalization as well, as the spectral power density of audio is different from a sine sweep as well, so it's important to apply some interpretation to a sine sweep distortion result.
This confirms my theory and I really need a better bass so that I can try it out with my DSP before I start working on the crossover.
Has anyone ever had the TangBand 75-1558SE or the little brother TB 50-1426SE?
The measurements of the 75-1558 completely beat the HiVi.
Something like this was available from Monacor a long time ago for 119€, now more than twice as much.
It's probably the best 3” Softdome on the market.
But I could afford its little brother with 2”, if that's worth it?
You can view the domes data sheet if you google "Dayton CF50N". The provided response looks pretty good, though the tweeters they have to pair with them look kinda bad to me.
Looks like you can grab the specs zip'd up by changing the CF18 download link, just replace the 18 with a 50.
Looks like you can grab the specs zip'd up by changing the CF18 download link, just replace the 18 with a 50.
This is a common observation with large woofers playing into the mids. The large radiating surface emitting the lower mids is a benefit in reducing THD in this spectrum. I like larger midbass drivers, which is why I like to use at least an 8" for the 200 to 700 hz range. If you go too high, it ruins the power response as well as having an undesired xover above 1k.
Its important to aim for at least high 100s to 4k coverage by a smaller cone or large dome. Having this critical part of the spectrum come from one driver allows for smoother phase. I do this for all of my 3 way builds and its the main reason I dont usually build anything with a crossover point between 1k to roughly 3.5 - 5k.
Large 2 ways are just too sloppy and rough in the mids for my taste unless a very refined midass driver is used. If I do build a 2 way, I almost always ends up avoiding a crossover above 1k and below 3.5k and/or build a 2.5 way.
If you've ever listened to a good example of a JBl 4312, it runs the LF up to and over 1.5k. From a midbass perspective, which is the main strength of the 12" 2213H, it has such a natural tone and very palpable lower midrange. You just don't get that with a small midrange crossed low. It can't move the air without considerable distortion. Most larger 2 ways are significantly better than even smaller 3 ways in the lower mids thanks to the large midbass radiating surdace area.
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Do you have any links for these? A CF dome mid would be very interesting if it was put together right.
@mahtew Using the D7608 as a dipole isn't recommended due to the uneven response coming out of the open back end. Even if you remove the felt, it doesn't sound good and if you do remove it, the lower end dampened is negatively affected. A 300 - 350 ml back chamber is recommended for best overall performance into the lower mids. This also cleans up the 1k+ area and increases low mid output along with mechanical power handling.
@PingPongTennis Nice build you posted. The Hivi stuff is tremendous value for money. The Tangband drivers are generally good with a few gems here and there. The older 3" dome mid was very good. The newer version didn't sound quite as good which didn't correlate with the measurements I've seen. I usually avoid mid domes which have a deep dome profile, mainly because they tend to have a deeper notch at upper rolloff as a result of the phase difference from dome tip to surround. Off axis, the dip will often turn into a peek, which is very hard to manage with only one notch filter. Often times a good compromise can be had, but in general the deeper dome profile causes more issues than other, more shallow dome mids.
As far as the best performing current production 3" mid dome, the Bliesma M74A/B are the leaders IMO. Not even the ATC super dome can achieve their resolution capabilities. The strength of the ATC is the lower mids and overall power handling. Its a massive driver, which also hurts CTC spacing to the tweeter.
As far as the best performing current production 3" mid dome, the Bliesma M74A/B are the leaders IMO. Not even the ATC super dome can achieve their resolution capabilities. The strength of the ATC is the lower mids and overall power handling. Its a massive driver, which also hurts CTC spacing to the tweeter.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/285-410--dayton-audio-cf50n-4mp-spec-sheet.pdf
Wonder why all their newer products are 4ohm only.
Wonder why all their newer products are 4ohm only.
Link dont work for me, here is an other
https://www.parts-express.com/pedoc...SZksKyJvcau3LA0tVwpE8e4ooXr_INefWuJ3tFet3VNVN
Blisma has its price.
In my experience, for example, paper and aluminum cones do not go together.
If you have a paper bass, the midrange dome should rather be silk or a soft material.
I think this also applies to carbon and birillium which don't necessarily play well with paperbass.
I have to limit myself a bit anyway and not test all options because the construction site is big enough as it is....
PE has the 2" midrange online now:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-Fiber-Cone-Midrange-4-Ohm-285-411?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-Fiber-Cone-Midrange-4-Ohm-285-411?quantity=1
The tweeter that goes with this mid has got some concerning resonances just above Fs. There are two significant bumps there which could be caused by the chamber design and VC gap venting. The price point looks good, but I'll need to see some further assessment. I do like the compact design. It looks a little like a rip off of the bliesma faceplate design.
@PingPongTennis I've combined many paper drivers with aluminum mids and tweeters without a noticeable shift in acoustic character between the two at xover. The only place you can start identifying diaphragm or cone material is above pistonic operation. Under this point, the drivers should be mostly inert, with motor design being the primary defining element of the driver's acoustic character.
Even crossing fairly high from a cone to a dome, the woofer will still be operating in pistonic mode. For an average 12" the upper limit would be 800 hz before it starts to break up. That would be an acceptable xover to a 2" mid dome.
Crossing from a 2" dome mid to dome tweeter is also un-problematic in terms of still being in pistonic mode at xover. That's assuming you're not crossing higher than 5k with a 2nd or higher order filter and notching the upper mid breakup. You shouldn't be able to discern the diaphragm material under these circumstances, but its important to understand the THD profile of the driver can still be a direct correlation to dome material (within reason). The VC former design can dictate this more than any other element of the motor.
Even crossing fairly high from a cone to a dome, the woofer will still be operating in pistonic mode. For an average 12" the upper limit would be 800 hz before it starts to break up. That would be an acceptable xover to a 2" mid dome.
Crossing from a 2" dome mid to dome tweeter is also un-problematic in terms of still being in pistonic mode at xover. That's assuming you're not crossing higher than 5k with a 2nd or higher order filter and notching the upper mid breakup. You shouldn't be able to discern the diaphragm material under these circumstances, but its important to understand the THD profile of the driver can still be a direct correlation to dome material (within reason). The VC former design can dictate this more than any other element of the motor.