Surprisingly little. I was expecting more change - but this is likely a combo of the speakers being pretty tall and they fire a lot of high freq energy into the room as they are dipole all the way up to 20kHz
With OB speakers it is not too bad actually. Esp the bass is surprisingly good. I have brought in some absorbers since but the improvement is minimal. Planning to build some diffusers next.
Bushmeister - Really impressive design work here. Your measured results speak for themselves.
How much distance do you think this kind of naked dipole requires to the sides and to the front wall... how close can the speakers be to the side walls and the front wall... ?
How much distance do you think this kind of naked dipole requires to the sides and to the front wall... how close can the speakers be to the side walls and the front wall... ?
OBs need space.
1.5m is the absolute minimum, but much better if you can get at least 2m from any wall.
Bushmeister fixed the WAF by having wheels under his speakers so they can rest away from the middle of the room when not in use.
1.5m is the absolute minimum, but much better if you can get at least 2m from any wall.
Bushmeister fixed the WAF by having wheels under his speakers so they can rest away from the middle of the room when not in use.
As far as possible from the walls, and preferably not touching each other in the middle of the room.
Dipoles have the figure of 8 radiation. The sides (the nulls) of the eight can point to a wall (they still need some distance from the wall to be actually formed though), but the two 0 lobes should preferably be away as much as possible from any wall. Somewhere I read that a ratio of 60% - 40% would be great. As Juhazi said in post 115.
Dipoles have the figure of 8 radiation. The sides (the nulls) of the eight can point to a wall (they still need some distance from the wall to be actually formed though), but the two 0 lobes should preferably be away as much as possible from any wall. Somewhere I read that a ratio of 60% - 40% would be great. As Juhazi said in post 115.
Agreed with above, but I have found excellent results even with only 1m from the back wall - however I use an equilateral triangle setup so rear lobe aim into the corners of the room.
Definitely best pulled out, but the magic works closer to the walls than I thought they would.
Having wheels is a huge bonus I can literally pull them about mid track to experiment. Highly recommended.
Definitely best pulled out, but the magic works closer to the walls than I thought they would.
Having wheels is a huge bonus I can literally pull them about mid track to experiment. Highly recommended.
Same here: during the week mine stay at 75cm from the back wall to stay out of the way, and sometimes I'm lazy to pull them out and still sound very good. My front wall is absorbent, though. I'm going to adopt the casters! 🙂
Worth noting Bushmeister's design has the 15" midbass above the subs, up high from the floor which allows space to the boundary so the figure 8 can form. FWIW, I have 18" midbasses and tried different heights and the bottom edge of the driver at 10" off the floor was significantly better than 5". I guess more would be better, but my MTM above the 18" gets the tweeter too high so I'm leaving it there (or stand the midbasses to the side of the MTM).
Bushmeister: I was thinking about the distance to the floor as a boundary when looking at your clam subs. I wonder if they would perform much different if you raised them from the floor (as an experiment)?
Worth noting Bushmeister's design has the 15" midbass above the subs, up high from the floor which allows space to the boundary so the figure 8 can form. FWIW, I have 18" midbasses and tried different heights and the bottom edge of the driver at 10" off the floor was significantly better than 5". I guess more would be better, but my MTM above the 18" gets the tweeter too high so I'm leaving it there (or stand the midbasses to the side of the MTM).
Bushmeister: I was thinking about the distance to the floor as a boundary when looking at your clam subs. I wonder if they would perform much different if you raised them from the floor (as an experiment)?
I think it is important to position dipoles pointed towards the listener. This way we minimize reflections that would make crosstalk - make channel separation worse. Interspeaker distance is 2,5m, and distance to side wall 2m from each L/R. Distance to front wall is about 60cm, angulation 30-45deg. Listening distance 2,5-3m from front wall and 1m to back wall.
My Ainos are dipole only from 250Hz up, so I can't comment dipole bass... Anyway regarding localization, that should be rather irrelevant. The problem I can see possible, is that backwave gets boost from the wall more than frontwave, and that might cause timing error in measurements (check wavelet or decay with long window) and perhaps confuce perception of transients in bass somewhat.
My Ainos are dipole only from 250Hz up, so I can't comment dipole bass... Anyway regarding localization, that should be rather irrelevant. The problem I can see possible, is that backwave gets boost from the wall more than frontwave, and that might cause timing error in measurements (check wavelet or decay with long window) and perhaps confuce perception of transients in bass somewhat.
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I would love to try a dipole open baffle design, and your naked-dipole design with GRS drivers is inspiring. However, I do not think my room could accommodate the side/rear space needed to really let them sing.
Bass seems to be the opposite (clearly, more defined and textured) - I guess in the same way dipole mid/highs are better with the backwave included.
I was expecting dipoles to be more enveloping but less clear and detailed - as you know the this isn't the case.
Besides in dipole bass the wavelengths are so long, monopole and dipole wall reflections will all behave very similarly - i.e. room modes.
The only difference I can see is that due to an entire plane being nulled in dipole there is a 1/3 less room interaction.
Certainly with my monopole push push subs I have to EQ 2-3 room modes, with these I am EQing one only.
The decay times are much better in the bass too, Let me see if I can dig up a measurement of my old system compared to this one....
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Couldn't find any so here are two measurements taken with both subs. Same crossovers, same spot in the room.
Measurements taken just in front of the listening position.
The monopoles have slightly more low bass output below 50Hz at this position but they are very similar when doing MMM and RTA measurements (again this shows how the stimulate the room differently)
Measurements taken just in front of the listening position.
The monopoles have slightly more low bass output below 50Hz at this position but they are very similar when doing MMM and RTA measurements (again this shows how the stimulate the room differently)
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The very clear differences you can see in these graphs is even more obvious listening to music - I have never, ever heard bass like this - is is so real.
Years ago while attending an outdoor rock concert I was struck by how detailed the Bass notes were. I believe that dipole bass approximates this in the room.
Argh, you are making this so difficult! Perhaps after 10y anniversary of Ainos I might make dipole bass units... only 2 years 'till that!
Sorry! Maybe it is just my room!
Don't get me wrong my push-push monopole subs are insane and for music like EDM and non complex stuff they are fantastic, but I love my classical music too - used to play in a few orchestras when a lot younger - and this is just like sitting next to the string section again - the cellos and double basses sound so lifelike.
Don't get me wrong my push-push monopole subs are insane and for music like EDM and non complex stuff they are fantastic, but I love my classical music too - used to play in a few orchestras when a lot younger - and this is just like sitting next to the string section again - the cellos and double basses sound so lifelike.