Bought two O2 sensors for my car: Fuelmiser Sensor Exhaust Oxygen for Toyota 4 Runner Camry Corolla Crown COS730 | eBay
Figured they are so cheap I might aswell get them anyway, I can always return them if I don't need them. But I probably do anyway.
Plus they are only $60 each. Plus the old ones have 350,000km on them.
Figured they are so cheap I might aswell get them anyway, I can always return them if I don't need them. But I probably do anyway.
Plus they are only $60 each. Plus the old ones have 350,000km on them.
Greetings all. I've owned a Nissan Pulsar Gtir 4wd turbo homologation rally rocket since 2004. Lots of performance boosting mods (328bhp on rolling road) and weight saving (1100kg) for fun on the road and occasional forays up the quarter mile at Santa pod with owners clubs. It's been garaged for a few years due to the cost of running two vehicles and family (aged parents) issues but she's still sound and regularly started. I've continued to aquire go faster parts (fiberglass doors, front side exit exhaust, engine bling item etc) despite her being off road. Reckon it's my 'Car for life'!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My daughter's Sentra SE started showing O2 sensor problem after she successfully passed a smog check.
Here I am ready to get all technical about diagnosing a faulty O2 sensor and I do a visual inspection on the thing and its not even wired up, in fact the wire going to the O2 sensors plug is snapped off at the female socket side.
I even got the old analog multimeter out and was ready to start counting oscillations of the O2 sensors to see if they're finicky...
Well THERE'S your problem!
I even got the old analog multimeter out and was ready to start counting oscillations of the O2 sensors to see if they're finicky...
Well THERE'S your problem!
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I repaired the wiring and made a new cable run going to the rear bank O2 sensor. I then did the O2 sensor test.
I did the service manual O2 sensor test anyway and neither bank passed the test. In fact I was hard pressed to get either one of the sensors to produce a binary signal on the test points in the diagnostic port.
Left bank O2 sensor made exactly 3 needle movements on ye olde analog multimeter.
Right bank O2 sensor made exactly 0 needle movements on ye olde analog multimeter.
Both sides stayed at a continuous 5 volts otherwise.
However the service manual EG-228 & EG-229 (pages 228-229) Oxygen sensor test tells me that I should have a working Engine Coolant Temperature sensor before considering this test to be valid. But after looking at both O2 sensors and noticing that they are both pitch black (rear one was coated in fuel, front one was dry, but rear one wasn't even plugged in for the last 5 months + goodness knows how long, it has been like this since I bought the car over 2 years ago.), and that they have 350,000km on them, I believe its safe to say that both O2 sensors should be replaced irregardless.
I did the service manual O2 sensor test anyway and neither bank passed the test. In fact I was hard pressed to get either one of the sensors to produce a binary signal on the test points in the diagnostic port.
Left bank O2 sensor made exactly 3 needle movements on ye olde analog multimeter.
Right bank O2 sensor made exactly 0 needle movements on ye olde analog multimeter.
Both sides stayed at a continuous 5 volts otherwise.
However the service manual EG-228 & EG-229 (pages 228-229) Oxygen sensor test tells me that I should have a working Engine Coolant Temperature sensor before considering this test to be valid. But after looking at both O2 sensors and noticing that they are both pitch black (rear one was coated in fuel, front one was dry, but rear one wasn't even plugged in for the last 5 months + goodness knows how long, it has been like this since I bought the car over 2 years ago.), and that they have 350,000km on them, I believe its safe to say that both O2 sensors should be replaced irregardless.
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what if I told you... that poorly maintained fuel injected cars pollute more than a well maintained carburetted car because nobody notices a faulty O2 sensor until its belching fuel out the tailpipe
#conspiracy
#conspiracy
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A fuel injected car runs in open loop mode until the O2 sensor is hot enough to function properly. An older car like yours with a one wire O2 sensor relies on the coolant temp sensor to know when to transition from open loop to closed loop mode. If the coolant temp sensor is dead, the car may never transition to closed loop mode and having no O2 sensor at all may not matter at much.
My totally stock 1984 Dodge Daytona had starting and rich running problems when I got it. It turned out to be an intermittent coolant sensor. It passed the pan of water on the stove test twice before I caught it feeding me a high voltage on a hot day. It would give the correct voltage most of the time, but random junk whenever it was in a bad mood.
If the computer didn't believe the coolant sensor the car would use the air temp sensor to guess at the fuel mixture based on air temp, throttle position and vacuum / boost pressure. Since a lean mixture will cause engine damage and a rich mixture will only pollute, the old cars always erred on the rich side. Often it was too rich for the car to start on a cold day.
Fix the coolant sensor, or fudge it with a resistor or a pot for testing before chasing any O2 sensor issues. Sometimes a fuel fouled sensor will burn off if it gets hot enough in a running engine, but it may be toast. After the temp sensor is working you can always swap the O2 sensors and see if the misfire chases the sensor.......If your car was like mine it's not fun to change these things, so I would only do it once.
My fast Dodge got its engine yanked every year, usually because it was time to rebuild the transaxle. I did this around the yearly smog check since I had to use the stock camshaft to pass the test, and the special camshaft to beat Mustangs! Guess which one I ran all year long, and actually gave the best gas mileage on my 84 mile daily commute. Timing belt, O2 (I only had one) and a few other goodies got swapped, the injectors got cleaned, and other issues got fixed at the same time.
My totally stock 1984 Dodge Daytona had starting and rich running problems when I got it. It turned out to be an intermittent coolant sensor. It passed the pan of water on the stove test twice before I caught it feeding me a high voltage on a hot day. It would give the correct voltage most of the time, but random junk whenever it was in a bad mood.
If the computer didn't believe the coolant sensor the car would use the air temp sensor to guess at the fuel mixture based on air temp, throttle position and vacuum / boost pressure. Since a lean mixture will cause engine damage and a rich mixture will only pollute, the old cars always erred on the rich side. Often it was too rich for the car to start on a cold day.
Fix the coolant sensor, or fudge it with a resistor or a pot for testing before chasing any O2 sensor issues. Sometimes a fuel fouled sensor will burn off if it gets hot enough in a running engine, but it may be toast. After the temp sensor is working you can always swap the O2 sensors and see if the misfire chases the sensor.......If your car was like mine it's not fun to change these things, so I would only do it once.
My fast Dodge got its engine yanked every year, usually because it was time to rebuild the transaxle. I did this around the yearly smog check since I had to use the stock camshaft to pass the test, and the special camshaft to beat Mustangs! Guess which one I ran all year long, and actually gave the best gas mileage on my 84 mile daily commute. Timing belt, O2 (I only had one) and a few other goodies got swapped, the injectors got cleaned, and other issues got fixed at the same time.
Yeah that is what I'm doing tubelab. I'm waiting for my engine coolant temp sensor and 2x O2 sensors to arrive in the mail, ETA: Thursday.
But I'm wondering if fuel injection is even worth it over a carburetted car.
Are we fooling ourselves into thinking that fuel injection is worthwhile?
Tally up the costs of replacing all of those sensors on a modern engine and it doesn't look good for EFI.
Long term at least, I can't see myself spending $300 on a VAF meter. Distributor. $100 on an ignition coil and igniter circuit. $99 on a computer.
The costs are certainly higher with EFI. Without 2nd hand spare parts from wrecked cars I can't see myself rebuilding a modern car and not crying at the expense.
But I'm wondering if fuel injection is even worth it over a carburetted car.
Are we fooling ourselves into thinking that fuel injection is worthwhile?
Tally up the costs of replacing all of those sensors on a modern engine and it doesn't look good for EFI.
Long term at least, I can't see myself spending $300 on a VAF meter. Distributor. $100 on an ignition coil and igniter circuit. $99 on a computer.
The costs are certainly higher with EFI. Without 2nd hand spare parts from wrecked cars I can't see myself rebuilding a modern car and not crying at the expense.
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You can't make 200+ HP from a 1.6L engine with a carburetor. It's done today with direct injection, a turbo, and a computer!
Those of us old enough to have worn out several older cars know how to change piston rings, and bore / hone cylinders. Modern fuel injection has removed one of the biggest sources of engine wear, the washdown of the cylinder walls from raw fuel sitting on the rings. Even still fuel trapped there is one of the largest contributors to unburned hydrocarbons emissions. Modern direct injection techniques are removing a lot of that.
When I raced the Turbo Dodges I was on a first name basis with several junkyards and all of the other racers who ran the same cars or engines. Those cars were popular and competitive in the mid 80's. When the 3rd gen Mazda RX7 appeared it took over the autocross scene, only to be replaced with the Miata a few years later, then the supercharged Mini from the UK. Many well to do racers ditched or wrecked their old Dodges and we picked up their spares or crashed cars. I started out with a plane jane 82 HP 1982 Charger and kept building faster engines to where I was somewhere around 225 HP based on drag strip top speed. Very few brand new parts were used.......they were beyond my price range. I did pay Carroll Shelby $650 (1985 dollars) for a pair of axles that he guaranteed that I couldn't break. They outlived the car and went to another Dodge racer when I crashed my second (and last) car.
I probably had 25 or so fuel injectors and a dozen or so O2 sensors. If I was going to the drag strip I put in a junk sensor and didn't even connect it. The octane booster I ran killed them and I had a secret combination of electronics that ran open loop in the main computer and an auxiliary computer for 2 more fuel injectors mounted in the manifold after the intercooler.
I wouldn't want that amount of power on a commuter. Hence my desire for a simple no-frills carburetted vehicle. But if its going to not last as long as an EFI vehicle then I wouldn't bother. I might as well just get a diesel.
Now there is something I didn't know or was aware of before but it makes complete sense now. I suppose we are truly better off with EFI then.
The problem I've got is that I'm restoring a 21 year old vehicle and the plastic parts are already deteriorated to the point that I cannot possibly reuse them. Plus I'm not entirely sure but in this country I don't think they sold many V6 models of this car as its very difficult to find spares for it in the local wreckers yards. I'm always having to buy parts from far away and even across state lines and the parts that do arrive are in poor condition.
My AFM meter is coated in oil on the inside of the chamber for example, I'll have to clean it out with a brush and some petrol.
And I had to import a carbon canister thermostatic switch from the USA.
It just makes me nervous buying 2nd hand parts when a car like this is so rare as it is.
I could understand if I needed a new wheel hub or some major component.
I now own 2 spares that I might fiddle around with for a while and see if I can't coax them back into life before binning them. I bought a butane torch recently so I can do an out of car test on them and see if they stick at any one voltage. Plus I haven't ever had one for curing heatshrink before, I've always just made do with the soldering iron, now I can do it in style.
If you ask me what a engine computer is I would tell you its a black box. which of course it isn't to those who know what it does. that is how clueless I am with EFI. But I am learning and I've learnt something today regarding closed and open loop operation and O2 sensors.
I already knew for the last few days that engine coolant temperature sensor malfunction can cause problems with the O2 test but I wasn't entirely sure, it WAS working fine when the car was warming up and then the resistance would freeze at 2.955/3k Ohm once it reached a coolant temperature of 47-50c. Which according to the service manual equates to a coolant temperature of 5-10 degrees centigrade, when the actual coolant temp was 47-50c. So I was hoping that I could get away with doing a service manual O2 sensor check.
The sensor check just gives a binary signal of the O2 sensors responding, thats all the diagnostic port does.
But alas I had no luck on one sensor and the other blinked only 3-4 times when it should've been blinking at least at a minimum of 8. Moving on anyway.
By the way the two O2 sensors arrived today and I installed them.
The fault WAS the O2 sensors. I've put two new ones in and the fuel from the tailpipe is nearly entirely gone. I say nearly entirely gone because there is still the matter of the ECT sensor which I've yet to replace as it hasn't arrived yet.The car would typically smoke out the whole street, but now its not, so that's good.
I say nearly gone because there is still a very small amount of smoke coming out the tailpipe but its very much improved compared to yesterday when it was belching fuel out the tailpipe. Hopefully its just the ECT sensor still causing problems for the ECU. But I suppose it could still be residue stuck inside the exhaust.
I had to go fill up a jerry can yesterday of fuel because this thing was consuming like 1/4 of a tank of gas for every 10 mins of operation. That is easily 20 liters of fuel!
Anyway heres hoping that it will pass registration for another year, I've gotta do a rego check in less than 4 weeks from today. I would love to own this car for another 20 years.
I've spent my entire paycheque this fortnight getting the front windscreen replaced, its going to cost me $331 and the guy is arriving tomorrow afternoon to swap out the windscreen with a new one. Should be nice seeing the outside world with a new piece of glass instead of a scratched up one like whats on there now. Would you believe my mechanic quoted me $99 for a new windscreen.. pfft he's living in the past I think.
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I think the previous owner was a cheapskate and just did everything he could to avoid replacing anything on the car. He had the high pressure power steering hose replaced but didn't bother cleaning down the back of the engine and when I replaced the thermostat the old one was hollowed out, no doubt to cover up the fact that the car had a faulty coolant temp sensor and a disconnected rear O2 sensor, and possibly also the fact that both of the sensors were fubar.
I also found that the VAF was reading erratic, the resistance would change just by blowing on the needle. A spray of Deoxit Fader F5 fixed that.
No real need, the car goes like a bat out of hell. 8.2 seconds for a 0-60 mph test. Right on the money for the factory spec.
Also there is zero oil and water consumption. It didn't start belching fuel out the tailpipe until I replaced the thermostat with a good non-hollowed out one. It was then a mad rush the last 5 months to fix things that the previous owner has neglected.
I would've picked those problems up during the test drive and I was very thorough in my scrutiny but basically if you open up the oil filler cap and there are carbon deposits on the oil filler cap then I immediatley suspect excessive blow-by. I then put my hand over the hole and feel for air blowing past my fingers. I then give the seller the guilty look and consider walking away. I wouldn't buy the car if there are carbon deposit buildups on the oil filler cap, if I did then the entire car would get a thorough shakedown and I would start pulling spark plugs out and looking underneath for blown main bearing seals and I would look in the intake manifold for fresh oil.
No... problems with this car are purely from a cheap owner. But at least he kept up on the oil changes, I've already in the past checked the engine out internally and everything is fine, damn better than fine brand new. Zero wear on the cam lobes... shiney internals etc. On this same thread no less: The car thread
I will be doing an oil change soon but not until I replace the ECT sensor and confirm that everything is right with the world again as far as the car is concerned, which means redoing the service manual O2 sensor test. The Mobil Super 2000 X2 10w40 (the good stuff) will be going into her along with a genuine toyota oil filter. To get rid of any potential fuel mixed in with the oil...
For now I'm going to go to sleep.
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That is pretty cool.
My mechanic is italian so not sure what I could buy from him. I need more contacts.
I meant it in the sense that that is literally all that I know of my mechanic. That he is italian and he likes a paticular Princess (UK Manufacture) car that he repairs for someone that he knows who does weddings. He has been helpful in telling me where I can go and get my A/C hoses fixed but not so helpful in finding injectors. In fact I helped him twice in finding spare parts for cars that I've owned in the past. No racial slur intended.
I suppose he knows enough about Japanese cars, he works on them most of the time. But I doubt he can help me with modifications, I asked him a while ago if he could help me convert my camry over to a Manual and he said it was too difficult... so that is his limit on modifying a car.
If I'm going to be working for him then I guess I had better get to know him better, but it might be best to get to know some other people too.
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Coming from a world of swapping parts from different cars of the same make, model and a narrow range of years, I would tend to agree. I attempted to venture down a really weird path once with disastrous and expensive results which cured me of doing the unusual.
The mechanical aspects of such a conversion are reasonably straight forward, finding all the bits and pieces to put it all together is where the problems lie. Clutch linkage / cable, shifter linkage / cable clutch pedal support stuff and the associated hardware are where the fun starts. Finding out that a critical support bracket, or the holes for it are not present in the automatic version, and need to be junkyard sourced, then welded in place after the engine and trans are hung are just a minor headache.......realizing just a bit too late that the firewall is in the way of something big is where the fun ended for me.
I had a 1968 Camaro with the usual 327 cubic inch V8 engine that had died due to 200,000 miles. I was stomping through a junkyard one day when I came across a Buick Regal with a turbocharged 231 cubic inch V6. I got the brilliant idea to stick the turbo Buick engine in a Chevrolet. The Chevy had a 4 speed manual but the Buick came with an Automatic. The same junkyard yielded a bell housing and a flywheel that fit the Buick engine, pulled from a V8 Buick engine, and my Muncie 4 speed fit the bell housing. I thought that the pressure plate, disc and throwout bearing would be the issue, and so did the parts counter guy when I told him what I had in mind, but I came prepared.
I had the engine block with crankshaft, the bell housing, transmission, and all the hardware to bolt it all together in the back of my van. I got the parts guy to pull all the possible throwout bearings for a Buick V6 and V8 of similar years, carried them all out to the van and tried them all. One fit, the others went back in stock. Ditto the pressure plate.
We did several test fits of the combo in the car using just the bare block, or the block with heads, because it was easier to work with the lighter assemblies. Once the completed engine and trans was hung in the car it became apparent that the turbocharger wanted to be where the master cylinder was. Major rework of the firewall and brake system would be needed to complete this project. A 1968 Camaro convertible was already a rare car and hacking it up would trash its value, so the project stalled.
After sitting in the front yard for over a year, the engine and trans was sold to a friend for his race car and the 350 cubic inch V8 out of my Chevy van went into the Camaro and the van got parted out and scrapped.
I know Toyota had better inventory control than GM ever did back then and there were probably less parts variation across models, but finding all the small stuff for an auto to manual conversion will likely be impossible if you can't find things like injectors and sensors easily.
Cheers! The MAF is one of the few original bits on the engine. I have a Z32 MAF and Nistune programmable ecu on the shelf if I ever go for go for bigger power. Trouble is the gearboxes are weak on these so an expensive Quaife gearset rebuild would be advisable ($5k!).Nice! Looks like a lot of fun!