Epcos
Hi Milan,
Thanks for sharing. WRT working temperature, I've seen some variants of it rated at 105degC with not much difference in price. I might score those. The Pana TSUP/TSHA's are actually much more expensive on my side of the shore.
regards,
fred
Hi Milan,
Thanks for sharing. WRT working temperature, I've seen some variants of it rated at 105degC with not much difference in price. I might score those. The Pana TSUP/TSHA's are actually much more expensive on my side of the shore.
regards,
fred
Hi rdf,
I've seen those SSG's on ebay before. 0.2uF silver micas are pretty rare even in NOS. I've used CDE silver micas (mouser) for riaa eq, they are quite nice. Although in some circuits and systems they might emphasize too much HF that can sound metallic at times (like 6ER5/6GK5). I haven't tried teflon due to lack of space. I'm guessing theat in some driver stages that uses low gm triodes or in WE91 type amps, they would tend to balance out the overripe 'romantic' sound that it usually imparts. Thanks.
regards,
fred
I've seen those SSG's on ebay before. 0.2uF silver micas are pretty rare even in NOS. I've used CDE silver micas (mouser) for riaa eq, they are quite nice. Although in some circuits and systems they might emphasize too much HF that can sound metallic at times (like 6ER5/6GK5). I haven't tried teflon due to lack of space. I'm guessing theat in some driver stages that uses low gm triodes or in WE91 type amps, they would tend to balance out the overripe 'romantic' sound that it usually imparts. Thanks.
regards,
fred
There's been some discussion of that ranging from lead material (all my small value silver CDE-style micas appear to use steel) to placement within the circuit. One idea knocked around is that micas are preferable to films with plenty of DC across them due to microphinc considerations. All hypothesis and opinion, no tests of course.
In my applications the SSG terminals were desoldered and removed to expose the hollow steel post beneath. From the centre of that post protrudes a ~30-32 gauge solid wire which presumably continues on to the cap inside the case. In place of the terminals I inserted 28 gauge silver lying around from some canibalized interconnect, eliminating steel as conductor as well as a two extra solder joints per cap. FWIW in this configuration, and to my ears of course, the SSGs were less toppish than unmodified Russian Teflons, and certainly far less so than the very popular K40Y-9 PIO. I settled on them specifically as a cure to top-end zing. Not perfect but I think it still contends as one of the best coupling caps under $20.
In my applications the SSG terminals were desoldered and removed to expose the hollow steel post beneath. From the centre of that post protrudes a ~30-32 gauge solid wire which presumably continues on to the cap inside the case. In place of the terminals I inserted 28 gauge silver lying around from some canibalized interconnect, eliminating steel as conductor as well as a two extra solder joints per cap. FWIW in this configuration, and to my ears of course, the SSGs were less toppish than unmodified Russian Teflons, and certainly far less so than the very popular K40Y-9 PIO. I settled on them specifically as a cure to top-end zing. Not perfect but I think it still contends as one of the best coupling caps under $20.
rdf,
Please excuse my ignorance? But, would you explain what SSG means?
Also, would you guide me to a place on the net where I can find more information about them?
Thanks
Norris Wislon
Please excuse my ignorance? But, would you explain what SSG means?
Also, would you guide me to a place on the net where I can find more information about them?
Thanks
Norris Wislon
Hey, I'm no more informed than you and haven't the least idea. Best guess is it's the translation from Cyrillic of what looks like 'ccr' printed on the cases. The SSG is a Russian, or more likely Soviet, part most easily found on Ebay. The only other vendor I found was Machmat (http://www.machmat.com/sales/capasm.htm , scroll right to the bottom) but I paid less for six than they want for one. Otherwise there's not a lot of info out there on this specific cap. Re: silver micas in general, both this forum and audioasylum has a lot of back and forth and general disagreement. Silver Mica coupling is an upgrade option for some of diyhifisupply's electronics and I think generally well received. Here for example:
http://www.triode-systems.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=11
As with any Internet information, mine included, there's no guarantee a recommendation won't give you cavities, cause your cat to shed or kill the petunias. 😉
http://www.triode-systems.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=11
As with any Internet information, mine included, there's no guarantee a recommendation won't give you cavities, cause your cat to shed or kill the petunias. 😉
rdf, I gotta get some of these polystyrene caps to you. I bought them off a ebayer, who had no idea what they were, or are. I have purchased 70 or so from him, and have another 400 on the way. 0.5uf, 250vdc, I think....141 of those. They have spec numbers, under test, that only loose out to the teflons at the 100khz measurement level. I think they are pretty darned good. They would be the best cap under $20, but I very greedily took every cap I could find. They were on ebay for one day,and then he found out I wanted them and pulled the advert, thank the gods. Good thing no-one else found out. 😛 I will have many caps soon, my manger is big, I will park stubbornly on most of them.
Although, admittedly, 250vdc is right at the limit to be a coupling cap, and thoroughly cicuit dependant.
Although, admittedly, 250vdc is right at the limit to be a coupling cap, and thoroughly cicuit dependant.
I have a couple dozen green 250V "polystyrol" eastern block caps in .1uF and .5uF. Havent seen them sold in some time. Similar?
that sounds like them. exact, in fact. I have some slightly higher tolerance ones that are yellow, too. What do you think of them? If you go to the electronic parts forum and look under the thread 'interesting capacitor question', you will find a photo of such. Anatech tested 8 that I gave him, at my request, on his HP LCR meter. The numbers are in the thread as well.
It turns out the innards are polystyrene film and double sided metallized film! I've taken one apart to see what goes on in these.
It turns out the innards are polystyrene film and double sided metallized film! I've taken one apart to see what goes on in these.
andRookie said:
Yes, I use them all the time and love them. Tested them against a lot of the familiar names, Solen, Auricap, Sonicap, AudioCap Theta, Jantzen, Dayton, Wima, Panasonic, Blackgate, etc. I like the Obbligatos better than any as a DC blocking cap for SS amp inputs.
Also sound very nice in the high-pass part of crossover.
I've used the original black plastic model, the copper tube, and the PIO. All sound good, the PIO has the best midrange. All are big, heavy, and not expensive.
I thought the polystyrene caps were a screaming bargain. They are just look those in the electronics and parts thread. They worked better than anything else I have but teflons. That said I dont have much else to compare them against.
The Teflons I have are 56nF 1,000V, unmoded.
The Teflons I have are 56nF 1,000V, unmoded.
Nice to know you liked the Obligatos. I bought the 0,47 copper and some pio filter caps for a diy project (el34 - Claus Byrith) I am working on. I just bought the because they where among the cheapest I could find.
Well, that solves the mistery of the dissappearing polystyrols. Somewhere at home I have a table of Russian cap type vs. construction and knew those were polystryrenes. Then poof, they were gone from Ebay.
Thanks for the generous offer KBK but I still have a pile of largish polystyrenes labelled TRW in my part kit. They're pretty good and it's probably time to revisit them. Right now I still far prefer the teflons. Last night I stopped by the Home Despot hunting for a new body for the latter. A 1" PVC plumbing coupler looks like it will work perfectly. Now to decide 'what with' and 'if' to fill the cap body (wax, oil, air?)
Thanks for the generous offer KBK but I still have a pile of largish polystyrenes labelled TRW in my part kit. They're pretty good and it's probably time to revisit them. Right now I still far prefer the teflons. Last night I stopped by the Home Despot hunting for a new body for the latter. A 1" PVC plumbing coupler looks like it will work perfectly. Now to decide 'what with' and 'if' to fill the cap body (wax, oil, air?)
wanna do a 'group manufacture'? I just today ran into a freind, where one of the things he does (he spends 6 months a year now, in China, supervising production lines) is manufacture 'high end' caps. He can do a small lot. Likely only a few different sizes, etc, same voltage and base foil width, the easy way. Hard to say, I haven't explored his pricing or capacities (haw!) yet.
That reminds me, I just got my pair of 100db+ 4" 130W fullrangers today. Crazy stuff. I'm not sure I'm even remotely allowed to speak about them yet, I'll have to ask tomorrow. This driver is just wild.
That reminds me, I just got my pair of 100db+ 4" 130W fullrangers today. Crazy stuff. I'm not sure I'm even remotely allowed to speak about them yet, I'll have to ask tomorrow. This driver is just wild.
basically, we'd be teaching the specific chinese company and crew, how to make a world class cap. Not that they don't know the ins and outs already, at least, of the manufacturing issues. I was speaking with the creator of said caps, and he was speaking about the issues of winding tension, voids, film and foil thickness consistency issues, how to not make it sound like a solen cap, etc. In essence, they have the variables concerning consistency 'down' as they say, after years of learning to get it right.
Now to include some interesting and more idealistiaclly 'modern (up to date techno realizations) into the cap.
The same folks have been importing and utilizing euro and western 'tricks' and technological advances in a unabashed and unashamed fashion. They call it (the technological zones of China) communist in some US circles, but the truth is, the nature of the situation is about as cuthroat and capitalistc as can possibly be imagined. Thus, the most advanced design techiques in driver manufacturing and idealization have quickly made it to the world stage at 1/2 to 1/4 the purchasing costs of buying out of the western world. QC and reliability,and some minor aspects that need to be assayed and learned over the long term, those are the last remaining components that need be learned,and they are being learned quickly.
What I'm saying is, the thinking around the 'cutting edge' of capacitor design and thoughts could be incorporated here, in some of these designs, depending on one's thoughts on the whole matter of exporting technology.
I was thinking of slit foil copper and teflon caps. Larger values.
Now to include some interesting and more idealistiaclly 'modern (up to date techno realizations) into the cap.
The same folks have been importing and utilizing euro and western 'tricks' and technological advances in a unabashed and unashamed fashion. They call it (the technological zones of China) communist in some US circles, but the truth is, the nature of the situation is about as cuthroat and capitalistc as can possibly be imagined. Thus, the most advanced design techiques in driver manufacturing and idealization have quickly made it to the world stage at 1/2 to 1/4 the purchasing costs of buying out of the western world. QC and reliability,and some minor aspects that need to be assayed and learned over the long term, those are the last remaining components that need be learned,and they are being learned quickly.
What I'm saying is, the thinking around the 'cutting edge' of capacitor design and thoughts could be incorporated here, in some of these designs, depending on one's thoughts on the whole matter of exporting technology.
I was thinking of slit foil copper and teflon caps. Larger values.
Nice initiative and ideas, Ken.
I remain of the opinion that the copper foil will oxidize sufficiently to diminish performance of the capacitor very probably below that of a tin foil/teflon cap. One might purchase an AudioCap PCU and disassemble it to see if oxidation is apparent.
The only copper foil capacitors of which I've heard good reviews are the Jensen/Audio Note variety, the oil construction of which naturally impedes oxidation, and Dueland, which use wax, so ditto.
My two cents.
I remain of the opinion that the copper foil will oxidize sufficiently to diminish performance of the capacitor very probably below that of a tin foil/teflon cap. One might purchase an AudioCap PCU and disassemble it to see if oxidation is apparent.
The only copper foil capacitors of which I've heard good reviews are the Jensen/Audio Note variety, the oil construction of which naturally impedes oxidation, and Dueland, which use wax, so ditto.
My two cents.
Sorry it took so long to reply KBK, work and playing with caps interrupted. The latter convinced me I have nowhere near the the knowledge to teach anyone how to make a world class cap. That and Tom's work/comments. Dissecting some Russian Teflons has been an education, good and bad. Things like connecting the foil and leads and treatment of the outer skin (surprisingly the Russkie Tef's appear to maintain an air dielectric between the case and wrap) for example. It's a great initiatative but where do we find the information required to keep from creating custom paperweights?
The pic below shows a stock Teflon, some internal parts and two variations of mods. The middle cap's steel terminals were removed, the internal wires brought out (it looks like silver), sleeved with Teflon tube and the end re-sealed with epoxy. The one on the far right removes the steel case, lightly compresses the internals in a PVC shell and eliminates the steel terminals as well. The latter is mechanically dead dead dead and contains no magnetic parts. Problem is, I'm not sure I like it the best. Does the original design, which isolated the cap itself from everything but the terminals with a layer of air, work better for it? The middle cap retains that isolation. It may end up my favourite. I don't yet know. I understand however that I don't know, which makes designing a cap a bit more complex than I thought.
The pic below shows a stock Teflon, some internal parts and two variations of mods. The middle cap's steel terminals were removed, the internal wires brought out (it looks like silver), sleeved with Teflon tube and the end re-sealed with epoxy. The one on the far right removes the steel case, lightly compresses the internals in a PVC shell and eliminates the steel terminals as well. The latter is mechanically dead dead dead and contains no magnetic parts. Problem is, I'm not sure I like it the best. Does the original design, which isolated the cap itself from everything but the terminals with a layer of air, work better for it? The middle cap retains that isolation. It may end up my favourite. I don't yet know. I understand however that I don't know, which makes designing a cap a bit more complex than I thought.
Attachments
That's why mine are done in a thin layer of stressed tape, akin to a standard design. One of the least offensive (sonically) methods, turns out to be the cheapest, too. So I can sit here and be holy and apparently smarmy about my results, you did the experiment.... 😛
I thought it would sound like that, after you said you were going to use PVC, but I wasn't 100% sure, but I did expect it. Kinda hazy, is my guess. like a euro microphone being better, and the Asain ones a bit 'grey' and hazy. That would be the sound of the PVC in comparison to others, like the tape wrap. It can also be tightness, as the wrap loosens in the stock design. I roll them a bit tighter, makes a difference in terms of microphonics.
Teflon tubing goes cheap on ebay at times..you know.......might be some there, right now. There is the guy selling scrap tubing all the time.
I thought it would sound like that, after you said you were going to use PVC, but I wasn't 100% sure, but I did expect it. Kinda hazy, is my guess. like a euro microphone being better, and the Asain ones a bit 'grey' and hazy. That would be the sound of the PVC in comparison to others, like the tape wrap. It can also be tightness, as the wrap loosens in the stock design. I roll them a bit tighter, makes a difference in terms of microphonics.
Teflon tubing goes cheap on ebay at times..you know.......might be some there, right now. There is the guy selling scrap tubing all the time.
I'm not sure hazy is the word. There's still a layer of Teflon film between the cap and PVC shell. More so 'dark'. Could be because the comparisons are to a steel-cased Telfon and silver micas. Or it could be something I'm hearing in my amp. Or I could be daft, who knows? 
Hi rdf,
Maybe you could try using a wooden case/tube for the Russian teflons like this guy (with Elna lytics though):
http://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/elna1_en.htm
Wrapped in high quality paper, filled it with beeswax, oil-based wood lacquer on the wood case to dry.
re: CDE Mica
I've noticed that the CDE are very good sounding, detailed and smooth, but when in series and paralleled in multiples things start to get zingy. These are when used in riaa eq crcts.
regards,
fred
Maybe you could try using a wooden case/tube for the Russian teflons like this guy (with Elna lytics though):
http://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/elna1_en.htm
Wrapped in high quality paper, filled it with beeswax, oil-based wood lacquer on the wood case to dry.
re: CDE Mica
I've noticed that the CDE are very good sounding, detailed and smooth, but when in series and paralleled in multiples things start to get zingy. These are when used in riaa eq crcts.
regards,
fred
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