Chris said:
You do not need a PCB to make this amp, but you need the schematics.
If you don't need PCB, what are we talking about here?
It is just my opinion, but if anybody wants to build that amp, he should go one step further and take care of his own PCB. If it's too expensive, why bother with the amp in a first place? Regular Aleph is still a good alternative😉 and PCBs are readily available. Aleph X is brand new product from Pass Labs and should be treated as such. It is one thing to make group purchases of the boards for designs being on a market for a good few years and a design, which probably didn't start selling yet. Having schematics available isn't enough anymore?
It´s not THAT easy and I think You know it. Though the layout might be Your property it`s based on a circuit which falls under patent law. What if You`d copy the original layout and if You were to change just the position (or values) of a few parts. Then is this Your property already because You changed it? It`s hard to to tell and anyway it`s on a thin line but by all means though this might be "Your" layout it still does not give You the right to SELL it without asking permission of the circuit`s patent holder.
What concerns me really I don`t feel like an "intellectual property cop" at all
. All I asked for is some consideration.We don`t talk about progress here under arbitary circumstances and how to achieve it but about progress and having fun in this particular case without violating patent rights eventually and without possibly offending someone who has been very open minded with us DIYers.
Likely his word is law here I don`t know but have You ever considered how many others are reading this board too and are You shure that for those Mr. Pass`s word is law also?
I´m perfectly aware that Mr. Pass don`t need any defence and that he can care for himself
. His 7 laywers will do that job much better if neccessary but I´m sure nobody here can want that this site only possibly might get`under the slightest suspicion that information provided here (or hardware like PCB`s coming from here) WITHOUT permission could be cause for any violation of Mr. Pass patents.
This statement is a single contradiction:
1.)Back-engenieering this project happened with permission of Mr. Pass. He could have stopped this discussion in public if he would have wanted 2.)You talk about that the lawyers should look into those who made it at all possible for us less knockledgeable to enjoy this circuit too and now You are speaking up for selling PCB`s???
Where is Your point?
BTW: Personally, I´m not for or against selling PCB`s (I could and would and probably will 😉 do my own anyway) and it`s not about that only some "special guys" (as You like to name them) should be able to built it. It`s all and only about wether or not Mr. Pass would mind if somebody is SELLING PCB`s for this circuit and that the concerned should ask permission BEFORE doing so, although assumed it`s a 0-profit deal - nothing else.
Ken: You took the words right of my mouth 🙂🙂
I've wondered about the possibility of having ZV4 PCBs made locally because, frankly, the passdiy.com prices are high when you convert them to CDN$ and add tax and "processing fee". If I offered to do a shared buy thing with other Canadians using a local shop I guess I'd be competing against passdiy.com but somehow I don't think Nelson would mind (before anyone gets all excited, yes I would wait for explicit permission first). Isn't this the same situation?
I really think the big bad commercial evil-doers
could find better ways of knocking off a Pass design than buy some DIY boards, but fully agree Nelson should approve grouped purchase efforts like this.
Paul
edit: I asked Carpenter to put my name on his list. Assuming NP okays the thing, of course.
I really think the big bad commercial evil-doers
could find better ways of knocking off a Pass design than buy some DIY boards, but fully agree Nelson should approve grouped purchase efforts like this.Paul
edit: I asked Carpenter to put my name on his list. Assuming NP okays the thing, of course.
If the circuit that has been developed by this group over these many months is in fact the same as the circuit that is patented by Mr. Pass, then I do believe that making these boards would be infringing on Mr. Pass' patent.
Patent: a right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing your invention.
Remedies for patent infringment: If information suggests that others are engaged in making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing your invention, you have a right to stop their activities and receive monetary damages for their infringing activities.
So, in the end, whether boards are made or not, Mr. Pass would have the legal right to prevent any and all from making the Aleph X (provided that it is the same, or found to be substantially similar to the patented circuit). Mr. Pass may also have a case (although a poor one) that he suffered monetary damages from builders who were potential buyers (lost profits). In the end, the fact that Mr. Pass has so graciously helped others with this circuit would work against him in court, and the legal fees he would incur would far outweigh any award.
That said, I agree that if Mr. Pass does not consent to a group buy of boards where no one stands to gain a cent, I believe it would only be proper that we respect his wishes.
Finally, Mr. Pass was generally right about governments being prohibited from producing patented drugs. Patents are local and are controlled by laws of countries in which the patents are registered (as well as any applicable international treaties). However, some governments (Brazil, India, and now, arguably China (although its official position is that the patent on AZT in China expired)) have violated patents registered in their own countries in order to produce anti-AIDS medications.
Patent: a right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing your invention.
Remedies for patent infringment: If information suggests that others are engaged in making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing your invention, you have a right to stop their activities and receive monetary damages for their infringing activities.
So, in the end, whether boards are made or not, Mr. Pass would have the legal right to prevent any and all from making the Aleph X (provided that it is the same, or found to be substantially similar to the patented circuit). Mr. Pass may also have a case (although a poor one) that he suffered monetary damages from builders who were potential buyers (lost profits). In the end, the fact that Mr. Pass has so graciously helped others with this circuit would work against him in court, and the legal fees he would incur would far outweigh any award.
That said, I agree that if Mr. Pass does not consent to a group buy of boards where no one stands to gain a cent, I believe it would only be proper that we respect his wishes.
Finally, Mr. Pass was generally right about governments being prohibited from producing patented drugs. Patents are local and are controlled by laws of countries in which the patents are registered (as well as any applicable international treaties). However, some governments (Brazil, India, and now, arguably China (although its official position is that the patent on AZT in China expired)) have violated patents registered in their own countries in order to produce anti-AIDS medications.
Re: Re:integrity is different than the law
Last I saw him he was raising hell down at the pub with some *ahem* randy Scouse git named Eddy. 🙂
se
Fred Dieckmann said:Where is John Galt?
Shrugging,
Last I saw him he was raising hell down at the pub with some *ahem* randy Scouse git named Eddy. 🙂
se
Re: Re: Re: Re:integrity is different than the law
More of an Anglophile (though I was a big Monkeys fan back when I was about 8). Randy Scouse git was a British phrase long before Mickey committed it to vinyl. 🙂
se
paulb said:
More of an Anglophile (though I was a big Monkeys fan back when I was about 8). Randy Scouse git was a British phrase long before Mickey committed it to vinyl. 🙂
se
interesting posts, guys.....
I'm certainly in the middle of a hornet's nest. I appologize to Mr. Pass for not asking permission with regards to gathering a group of like minded souls to purchase "in mass" the highly coveted AlephX pcb.
I labored for weeks on the last pcb artwork and was delighted to see that "wessol" had employed my efforts. I'm extremely happy to read that the pcb works. I'm anxious to have a professional degree of quality in my pcbs; ie. plated through holes, solder mask, silk screening, etc. For me, it's still diy because of the effort in the development of the artwork and then there's the desire to work with an extremely high quality pcb. I don't manufacture the transistors, the capacitors, the resistors, etc. and yet I still consider my use of manufactured components such as these DIY.
I have no desire to sell pcbs, only to save a few bucks with others who are willing to go in on the purchase with me.
On my web site, I offer freely my heatsink/chassis designs as well as my horn designs and ideas. I've spent years laboring in this indeavor as well. I don't ask for money and I guess that my mindset is such that when I give freely, I also expect to receive freely; call it the karmic law of sharing the abundance.
John Inlow
I'm certainly in the middle of a hornet's nest. I appologize to Mr. Pass for not asking permission with regards to gathering a group of like minded souls to purchase "in mass" the highly coveted AlephX pcb.
I labored for weeks on the last pcb artwork and was delighted to see that "wessol" had employed my efforts. I'm extremely happy to read that the pcb works. I'm anxious to have a professional degree of quality in my pcbs; ie. plated through holes, solder mask, silk screening, etc. For me, it's still diy because of the effort in the development of the artwork and then there's the desire to work with an extremely high quality pcb. I don't manufacture the transistors, the capacitors, the resistors, etc. and yet I still consider my use of manufactured components such as these DIY.
I have no desire to sell pcbs, only to save a few bucks with others who are willing to go in on the purchase with me.
On my web site, I offer freely my heatsink/chassis designs as well as my horn designs and ideas. I've spent years laboring in this indeavor as well. I don't ask for money and I guess that my mindset is such that when I give freely, I also expect to receive freely; call it the karmic law of sharing the abundance.
John Inlow
wessol
regarding unbalanced connection to balanced and hum I asked this in another thread and you can have a look how Steve Eddy and Nelson Pass replied.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=74162
Giorgio
regarding unbalanced connection to balanced and hum I asked this in another thread and you can have a look how Steve Eddy and Nelson Pass replied.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=74162
Giorgio
Well it looks like everyone is back on track now.
🙂
Giorgio,
Thank you for the link, I have been following that one as well.
I think I am going to go with the Brown-Burr DRV134.
(I will prob. hear about that from the anti-opamp folks but, I am a simple person.)
I have been working with getting rid of the hum,
it appears to be comming from they way my chassis is layed out.
I changed the orignal input wires to shielded interconnect and grounded the shield on one end and rerouted the interconnect between the pc board and the heatsink.
This removed a significant amout of the hum.
Next, I plan on setting up a copper ground plane between
the circuit boards and the caps.
I am still not sure why the abs DC offset keeps moving,
I guess eventually it must come to rest
or worst case let some smoke out.
🙂
Giorgio,
Thank you for the link, I have been following that one as well.
I think I am going to go with the Brown-Burr DRV134.
(I will prob. hear about that from the anti-opamp folks but, I am a simple person.)
I have been working with getting rid of the hum,
it appears to be comming from they way my chassis is layed out.
I changed the orignal input wires to shielded interconnect and grounded the shield on one end and rerouted the interconnect between the pc board and the heatsink.
This removed a significant amout of the hum.
Next, I plan on setting up a copper ground plane between
the circuit boards and the caps.
I am still not sure why the abs DC offset keeps moving,
I guess eventually it must come to rest
or worst case let some smoke out.
If aleph-x boards are made avaliable I too would like a set assuming of course that mr. Pass has no objection.
Regards,
bob12345678
Regards,
bob12345678
I have been asked (privately) to weigh in on this one more
time, so here it is:
Any artist wants the public to appreciate his work. The
more people and the more they know, the greater the
appreciation.
Keep in mind is that I have a big bag of designs, and I
can only let them out a bit at a time to avoid confusing
everybody. When I get bored, I open the bag.
The chance that a DIYer would have bought the product
instead is low. In fact, we find the reverse is true - a
percentage of our commercial products go to people who
built one of the projects and fell in love with the sound.
It is our policy to encourage and smile benignly on DIY efforts.
It is good for the community, and everybody benefits.
If the effort involves intellectual property copyrighted,
trademarked, or patented, then we expect that it would be
done on a limited not-for-profit basis, consistent with the
spirit of the DIY approach.
time, so here it is:
Any artist wants the public to appreciate his work. The
more people and the more they know, the greater the
appreciation.
Keep in mind is that I have a big bag of designs, and I
can only let them out a bit at a time to avoid confusing
everybody. When I get bored, I open the bag.
The chance that a DIYer would have bought the product
instead is low. In fact, we find the reverse is true - a
percentage of our commercial products go to people who
built one of the projects and fell in love with the sound.
It is our policy to encourage and smile benignly on DIY efforts.
It is good for the community, and everybody benefits.
If the effort involves intellectual property copyrighted,
trademarked, or patented, then we expect that it would be
done on a limited not-for-profit basis, consistent with the
spirit of the DIY approach.
I must confess my confusion about the value of R3 and R25 (nomeclature from xa1build.pdf from page 23). The BJT I plan to use for Q2 and Q7 does not conduct until 600mV V<sub>BE</sub>, but everyone else is designing for 500mV. I think I will design for 600mV. If it turns out to be 500mV at least the current will be lower than intended.
Measured Vbe for Q2 and Q7 is in case of BC550 0.66..0.69 Volt.
There is aprox. 0.15 Volt drop over R4 and R22 which leaves
aprox. 0.5 Volt for R3 and R25. Q2 and Q7 are conducting,
otherwise the FET would not be restrained and the FETS would
fail.
There is aprox. 0.15 Volt drop over R4 and R22 which leaves
aprox. 0.5 Volt for R3 and R25. Q2 and Q7 are conducting,
otherwise the FET would not be restrained and the FETS would
fail.
Thank you, Nelson
for your most gracious position on this matter.
You have once again favored this forum with your generosity.
Sincerely
Ken L
🙂
for your most gracious position on this matter.
You have once again favored this forum with your generosity.
Sincerely
Ken L
🙂
your most gracious position
And demonstrated the difference between statesmanship and politics. A gentleman and a scholar!
Thank you
Fred
And demonstrated the difference between statesmanship and politics. A gentleman and a scholar!
Thank you
Fred
