Mr. Pass claims in Zen variations that Pass Labs does not concern itself with DIY efforts, even where their patent is involved. Pass has been most gracious in this regard. Grace aside, you cannot enforce a patent against a DIY non-profit project. Patents only prevent others from making a profit from the patented device or method.
I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between four people ordering PCBs from a prototype shop, and one person ordering four boards and mailing them out. Actually, the difference will be a very large savings per board.
I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between four people ordering PCBs from a prototype shop, and one person ordering four boards and mailing them out. Actually, the difference will be a very large savings per board.
Pass DIY Addict
Joined 2000
Paid Member
Agreed, Mr. Pass has been very supportive of this development effort, just go back and read the thread... I also recall his statement about not being concerned with patents with respect to the DIY community.
The layout which I used was the most recent one posted with the small grounding change which was suggested.
On my amp;
The absolute DC offset (spr+ to gnd) seems to slowly go more negative over time, even after an hour, but the DC offset (spr+ to spr-) seems to stay stable in the 10mV range.
I need to reread the thread and see if this has been addressed or not.
I also have a slight hum,
I am using a no thrills power supply, no pi filter no thermisters, just the old transformer bridge rectifer and resivor caps.
I need to go back and do some sheilding on the input wires, maybe install a ground plane over the circuit, check for ground loops, etc.
Overall I would say the board layout works fine.
I made my circuit boards with a transparency of the layout and the presensitized boards, once you make a couple it is pretty straight forward.
I have been using unbalanced inputs for testing and it seems to work fine (in+ to RCA+ and in- to RCA ground),that may be the source of my slight hum.
I am sure you guys will let me know though.
On my amp;
The absolute DC offset (spr+ to gnd) seems to slowly go more negative over time, even after an hour, but the DC offset (spr+ to spr-) seems to stay stable in the 10mV range.
I need to reread the thread and see if this has been addressed or not.
I also have a slight hum,
I am using a no thrills power supply, no pi filter no thermisters, just the old transformer bridge rectifer and resivor caps.
I need to go back and do some sheilding on the input wires, maybe install a ground plane over the circuit, check for ground loops, etc.
Overall I would say the board layout works fine.
I made my circuit boards with a transparency of the layout and the presensitized boards, once you make a couple it is pretty straight forward.
I have been using unbalanced inputs for testing and it seems to work fine (in+ to RCA+ and in- to RCA ground),that may be the source of my slight hum.
I am sure you guys will let me know though.
Nelson Pass wrote this earlier:
"I'm sure it will amuse you to know that I have 5
attorneys."
You guys better watch out. !!!!!!!!!?!!!!!???
🙂
I agree with jwb....
AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK !!!!!!!
I`m looking forward to read about the result of this project.
Someday i might hear it with my own ears too!!!!!!!!!
"I'm sure it will amuse you to know that I have 5
attorneys."
You guys better watch out. !!!!!!!!!?!!!!!???
🙂
I agree with jwb....
AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK !!!!!!!
I`m looking forward to read about the result of this project.
Someday i might hear it with my own ears too!!!!!!!!!
I have used both my Aleph-X channels driven balanced and unbalanced.
Unbalanced was +in to RCA+, -in to ground, ground to RCA-.
You need capacitors on the input. It runs fine, but I like balanced using ssm2142 unbal-bal converter better.
Unbalanced was +in to RCA+, -in to ground, ground to RCA-.
You need capacitors on the input. It runs fine, but I like balanced using ssm2142 unbal-bal converter better.
Patents only prevent others from making a profit from the patented device or method.
Oh.....how about selling PCBs? Why just four why not a hundred?. Why just limit it to sales here? Why not create a website? You people have no idea of the number of DIY projects of his that have been turned in to full scale commercial designs with the exploitation of the association with Pass's connection with the original design. Not everybody in the world is as nice as Mr. Pass. The audio industry includes some real slime that will steal and decieve without a thought. Why make it easier for them?
Original design of good audio equipment is not as simple as everyone thinks. If it was, there would be no need for forums such as this. The idea that someone might commercially exploit ideas that I might present make me reluctant has hell to post schematics here. I was in the audio business as a manufacturer and as a consultant. Go try it and find out how generous you feel
after that. Don't mistake good natured tolerance for approval and encouragement for high questionable practices that I have seen right here in this forum.
Fred Dieckmann
Oh.....how about selling PCBs? Why just four why not a hundred?. Why just limit it to sales here? Why not create a website? You people have no idea of the number of DIY projects of his that have been turned in to full scale commercial designs with the exploitation of the association with Pass's connection with the original design. Not everybody in the world is as nice as Mr. Pass. The audio industry includes some real slime that will steal and decieve without a thought. Why make it easier for them?
Original design of good audio equipment is not as simple as everyone thinks. If it was, there would be no need for forums such as this. The idea that someone might commercially exploit ideas that I might present make me reluctant has hell to post schematics here. I was in the audio business as a manufacturer and as a consultant. Go try it and find out how generous you feel
after that. Don't mistake good natured tolerance for approval and encouragement for high questionable practices that I have seen right here in this forum.
Fred Dieckmann
Re: Aleph X
"ME TOO!". You guys should show more courtesy to Nelson. If you want to built the X, do the board yourself. You'll enjoy your project even more.😉
Fred Dieckmann said:
"ME TOO!". You guys should show more courtesy to Nelson. If you want to built the X, do the board yourself. You'll enjoy your project even more.😉
jwb said:
I'm afraid you're incorrect here. Patents protect against ANY unauthorized use regardless of whether or not someone is making money off it.
se
Not everyone agrees with your philosophy. I write software, and I give it away. I wrote software in Apache that millions of people use everyday, often for profit, and I've never seen a dime of it. But of course I don't mind, I did it knowingly. Same thing with my audio designs, humble though they may be. I always post the schematics and layouts. Why shouldn't people benefit from my time spent?
My main point is that you needn't get annoyed on behalf of Mr. Pass. He will lay the smack down if needed. Maybe he gets a thrill from other people building his designs. I know i do.
My main point is that you needn't get annoyed on behalf of Mr. Pass. He will lay the smack down if needed. Maybe he gets a thrill from other people building his designs. I know i do.
Making profit or not from selling is not the issue here IMO. The fact alone that something is sold (and distributed to many others otherwise eventually not being able to build it) what is the intellectual property of someone else (Mr. Pass in this case) maybe is enough to violate patents. And even if not, with regards to Mr. Pass`s generousity towards the DIY-community by all means it`s simply a matter of fairness to experience what what would be Mr. Pass `s will in that case and to respect it regardless of how he decide.
Though Mr. Pass encouraged people to backengeneer the Aleph-X here, does not mean inherently that he agree that somebody is selling PCB`s for a product of his current production line, even if this would be a non-profit business.
By all means it can not harm to wait what Mr. Pass thinks of this particular case before going to offer any PCB´s!
As far as I understand it, patent rights actually do confer full
rights as to how something is used. For example, governments
are not permitted to make patented drugs and vaccines and
give them away without permission.
That aside, of course it would be simply foolish to bother to
pursue non-profit uses of intellectual property. Where would
Bill Gates be if he went around chasing down every illicit
copy of DOS?
My 5 attorneys? 2 for corporate business. 1 for the taxman.
1 for estate. 1 for personal. 1 for a sister, who watches the
others.
Oh no! that's 6!
rights as to how something is used. For example, governments
are not permitted to make patented drugs and vaccines and
give them away without permission.
That aside, of course it would be simply foolish to bother to
pursue non-profit uses of intellectual property. Where would
Bill Gates be if he went around chasing down every illicit
copy of DOS?
My 5 attorneys? 2 for corporate business. 1 for the taxman.
1 for estate. 1 for personal. 1 for a sister, who watches the
others.
Oh no! that's 6!
Color me contrary, but I think the PCB layout is not the property of Mr. Pass, but the property of the person who actually drew it. Likewise my variant of BoSoZ belongs party to me. Mr. Pass designed it, I modified it, and I made the layout.
Don't be too much of an intellectual property cop. Progress is made by the smooth flow of information. If everyone on this site was trying to restrict the use of work they had done, nobody would get anywhere. Even the patent system is designed to make secrets public.
And as I said, nobody needs to come to Pass' defense. I'm sure his word is law on this site.
Don't be too much of an intellectual property cop. Progress is made by the smooth flow of information. If everyone on this site was trying to restrict the use of work they had done, nobody would get anywhere. Even the patent system is designed to make secrets public.
And as I said, nobody needs to come to Pass' defense. I'm sure his word is law on this site.
Many of you guys know what it takes to put one of these projects together. Some of us can't even find suitable heat sinks or cases for these amps! Do you honestly think that because someone made a pro PCB some dude is going to make a run of 10 or 20 of these amps in their garage, and then sell them for 10 grand each?
Talk about respect, no one should have attempted to back-engineer this project in the first place if you were so concerned about helping protect Pass Labs!! What makes you guys so special that you can reproduce his design and other can't enjoy it too? Because you know electronic engineering? Because you know Ohms law? Or, because you have a better tool set? The people who understand what is going on under the hood of the Aleph-X are the ones who the lawyers should look into, not some scrub who barley knows how to use a soldering iron and needs help putting together a descent PCB!!!
Please quit your holyer than thou attitudes.
Talk about respect, no one should have attempted to back-engineer this project in the first place if you were so concerned about helping protect Pass Labs!! What makes you guys so special that you can reproduce his design and other can't enjoy it too? Because you know electronic engineering? Because you know Ohms law? Or, because you have a better tool set? The people who understand what is going on under the hood of the Aleph-X are the ones who the lawyers should look into, not some scrub who barley knows how to use a soldering iron and needs help putting together a descent PCB!!!
Please quit your holyer than thou attitudes.
If you really want to have and enjoy that amp do the effort and make the board yourself. I did my first board by painting the traces with a brush using nail polish. The circuit is so simple that I don't see any problem with designing a proper layout. It's not about the guy who builds 10 amps in a garage and sells them using boards from a forum. It's about respect for a man who shares his advise, free time and experience with us and his new amp just went off the production line. I just think that it's inappropriate to make all that noise about group purchasing the boards now. Having proper tool sets and experience I'm not using the board either, I'm doing it point to point. Guess why?😉
PCB layout is not the property of Mr. Pass, but the property of the person who actual
And the fact that it is based on patented information without which it could not exist? What if someone like Hugh Dean does not wish his schematic posted here is taken advantage of with very real impact on his kit sales? What if some one sees the design and says I call sell those here and not have to have them shipped from Austrailia? Mr. Dean doesn't even have the cussion of patent protection. What if I publish a circut design here for a couple of interested DIYers here and the next thing I know someone is offering kits? What if I had decided to offer kits later and wind up competing with my own design?
I don't think I am being anal here, just asking for some consideration for the guys that did the origional hard work, made the financial investment (including time), and took the honest risk.
Do I have to ask anybody not to snatch purses from women while I am at it? Will I be cramping the partcipation in a long standing tradition and fufiling passtime for young athletic men who just want to enjoy themselves with a profitable and fun passtime that gets them outdoors?
Fred
And the fact that it is based on patented information without which it could not exist? What if someone like Hugh Dean does not wish his schematic posted here is taken advantage of with very real impact on his kit sales? What if some one sees the design and says I call sell those here and not have to have them shipped from Austrailia? Mr. Dean doesn't even have the cussion of patent protection. What if I publish a circut design here for a couple of interested DIYers here and the next thing I know someone is offering kits? What if I had decided to offer kits later and wind up competing with my own design?
I don't think I am being anal here, just asking for some consideration for the guys that did the origional hard work, made the financial investment (including time), and took the honest risk.
Do I have to ask anybody not to snatch purses from women while I am at it? Will I be cramping the partcipation in a long standing tradition and fufiling passtime for young athletic men who just want to enjoy themselves with a profitable and fun passtime that gets them outdoors?
Fred
integrity is different than the law
And a word that is all too infrequently used instead of the various legalities
Within most fields there are certain rules and areas of preofessional courtesy -
Nelson Pass has been generous way far beyond the norm with his time, energy and talents to this forum and all of us.
It is almost beyond my comprehension that he and his contributions here and in this field would be treated with anything other than the utmost respect and courtesy.
I would hope that anyone that is a member of this forum would carefully consider the correctness of any dealings that may possibly be viewed in an unfavorable light by Mr. Nelson Pass, regardless of the legalities involved.
😀
Ken L
And a word that is all too infrequently used instead of the various legalities
Within most fields there are certain rules and areas of preofessional courtesy -
Nelson Pass has been generous way far beyond the norm with his time, energy and talents to this forum and all of us.
It is almost beyond my comprehension that he and his contributions here and in this field would be treated with anything other than the utmost respect and courtesy.
I would hope that anyone that is a member of this forum would carefully consider the correctness of any dealings that may possibly be viewed in an unfavorable light by Mr. Nelson Pass, regardless of the legalities involved.
😀
Ken L
Re: PCB layout is not the property of Mr. Pass, but the property of the person who actual
A more than reasonable request in my opinion.
se
Fred Dieckmann said:
A more than reasonable request in my opinion.
se
So it`s okay to post schematics that contains electronics that
Mr Pass has patented ?
But if, let`s say some guys make a PCB-layout of this and want`s have them made professionaly. This would be wrong if they sold them to others for profit of course. I would agree to that.
The original question here was (if I understod correctly) that somebody asked if anybody are interested ordering PCB-bords to save money. If this is done none profitwise. What is so wrong about that?
Is it really any worse than posting schematics that contains patented stuff ?
You do not need a PCB to make this amp, but you need the schematics.
Mr Pass has patented ?
But if, let`s say some guys make a PCB-layout of this and want`s have them made professionaly. This would be wrong if they sold them to others for profit of course. I would agree to that.
The original question here was (if I understod correctly) that somebody asked if anybody are interested ordering PCB-bords to save money. If this is done none profitwise. What is so wrong about that?
Is it really any worse than posting schematics that contains patented stuff ?
You do not need a PCB to make this amp, but you need the schematics.