Problem with the article is they say they can optimise the LP for radial tracking - but which arm length 9", 10" 12"? Or will they make the LP in all four formats (tangential too.) Might as well have a 10 micron PTFE layer put onto the LP surface to minimise friction while they're about it.
Duh... what's the ultimate point of HD vinyl in the form that it's being presented? This process clearly involves tons of digital processing for signal conditioning to compensate for groove pitch control, offset arm tracking error, perhaps stylus tip radius/profile compensation, a myriad of linearity compensations for deflection control and focus of the laser beam, and likely the magnetic effects of solar flares and sunspots 😉 . All this to create a mechanical facsimile of an analog signal which will then undergo the next level of infidelities of tracing it to reconstruct it into an analog signal again and subject it to frequency response aberrations from mechanical/electrical resonances, loading, and RIAA errors?
Can anyone who thinks this is a good idea seriously look me in the eye and say all this digital and mechanical processing is / will be superior to a well recorded and mastered CD? Seriously?
Ray K
Can anyone who thinks this is a good idea seriously look me in the eye and say all this digital and mechanical processing is / will be superior to a well recorded and mastered CD? Seriously?
Ray K
I thought that cutting a record with a laser would be impossible for an optical laser as the wavelength of light is too large. Spot diameters of a few um is the minimum
Was clearing out some old clippings from "HiFi News and Record Review" -- JLH described a pickup distortion meter for adjusting cartridges (October 1982). With respect to the HFS 69 test record he mentions that the 1kHz and 3kHz recordings were "1/4 and 2/3's of the way across the disc, which allows a good assessment of the final tracking alignment."
What he found was that measuring the THD over a span of time allowed him to judge the deterioraton in performance owing to "wear". He also mentions that his MC-20 showed dramatic improvement as "the major axis of its stylus ellipse was set incorrectly".
What he found was that measuring the THD over a span of time allowed him to judge the deterioraton in performance owing to "wear". He also mentions that his MC-20 showed dramatic improvement as "the major axis of its stylus ellipse was set incorrectly".
Attachments
That picture of the "future" stylus shape should be enough of a clue that these folks are totally speculating (or making it up). I think this should be filed with the maglev turntable.
You're also not talking laser cutting but machining and where does the removed material go?
You don't want to know how much this costs, we paid $65 per hole for some experiments. Machining Services & Custom Manufacturing of High-precision, Tight-tolerance Parts | Clark-MXR (CMXR)
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Nice to know I am not alone. I am expecting this to be stillborn or if it actually makes it beyond feasibility studies and prototyping to production, that it will not receive much support in the market.
I don't believe that the ideal stylus profile as described for HD "vinyl" is compatible with existing records.
The whole idea seems to have missed the point of why vinyl is popular.
Most vinyl isn't sold to guys like us, it's going to people who either stare at the cover artwork and listen to the MP3 downloads generally included or who are playing it on an inexpensive Crossley or similar.
Some of the recent vinyl I have purchased leaves me with the impression that its producers didn't intend it to be played.
I don't believe that the ideal stylus profile as described for HD "vinyl" is compatible with existing records.
The whole idea seems to have missed the point of why vinyl is popular.
Most vinyl isn't sold to guys like us, it's going to people who either stare at the cover artwork and listen to the MP3 downloads generally included or who are playing it on an inexpensive Crossley or similar.
Some of the recent vinyl I have purchased leaves me with the impression that its producers didn't intend it to be played.
Jack: Thanks for posting that. Interesting, the AKG looks like an ortofon OEM. Not seen one of those before, but does tally with the measurements George did to show distortion going down over time.
A very good point. There spatter from the drilling will surely contaminate earlier cutting.
From what I read, they are producing a stamper that can be used to direct press a record. To do that they would have to be creating a ridge (not a groove) on a flat surface.
As mentioned in their patent.
It's definitely not a piece of cake, but give these guys a change to realise their dreams. If they don't succeed, it's somebody else's money 😀
Yes, they would have to etch/blast away all the space between the groove(s) with the laser in order to uncover the actual audio groove 'ridge'. It's like painting an entire highway black or concrete color instead of just painting a stripe between the lanes.
Ray K
Can a laser beam (=concentrated heat energy) create precise shapes in the nanometer range at all? The surplus material will evaporate, I suppose. There will be a melted smooth surface, that is good. But I am concerned how it can create a precise 90 degree V-shape. Their secret.
Another point, a master is a one off product much like a mask for an IC. An e-beam mask for a 12" wafer might be the closest analogy and they are $100,000's per layer and done in one pass.
What is the resolution for an e-beam mask and what should be the minimum resolution for an LP master. Are they really in the same ballpark ?
Yes, you never know whether something is feasible until it actually can be put in your hands.
They must have some defined method to etch the ceramic stamper to a fine degree since they are claiming 100 KHz as the HF limit.
Taking that at face value, that mens the digital master (as in not the master stamper in the record plant, but the master "tape" as it were) must have a Nyquist Frequency of at least 200 KHz (and probably some other more convenient frequency above 200 KHz).
Studer made the A820 Varispeed 1" 2-track which could record at 45 IPS and had out-of-this-world HF limits, I know a lot of more mundane Studers would begin a rising frequency response at or around 15 KHz 0Vu and go way beyond 20 KHz (I think the 30 IPS ½" tape 2-tracks were spec'd to 24KHz and measured to 27 KHz +/- 2dB) but even then no need really to go beyond 50 KHz cutting the master stamper direct from tape instead of digital.
A healthy skepticism rarely disappoints. Put another way, you'll win more than you lose.
I know nothing really about lasers, some stumbling around on the interwebs tells me:
With a CO2 laser and an ordinary ("affordable") ZnSe lens:
50 Watt laser, 6 mm beam and M 2 =1.1:
working distance, mm / spot diameter, mm / Intensity at focal point, W/sq mm
400 / 1 / 65
100 / 0.25 / 1000
25 / 0.06 / 16,000
The 0.06mm spot is 60 microns. Pretty fat. But you get the power, so whatever the problem might be, if he's cutting it as fine as he says he can, looks like he could vaporize whatever he wants.
But maybe there are better lasers, lenses, or beam focus? Somebody must know this stuff, there are too many smart people on this forum for this to be a mystery.
In the end, I hope we don't have to wait another year and a half to get this project in people's hands, so it's all academic anyway.
They must have some defined method to etch the ceramic stamper to a fine degree since they are claiming 100 KHz as the HF limit.
Taking that at face value, that mens the digital master (as in not the master stamper in the record plant, but the master "tape" as it were) must have a Nyquist Frequency of at least 200 KHz (and probably some other more convenient frequency above 200 KHz).
Studer made the A820 Varispeed 1" 2-track which could record at 45 IPS and had out-of-this-world HF limits, I know a lot of more mundane Studers would begin a rising frequency response at or around 15 KHz 0Vu and go way beyond 20 KHz (I think the 30 IPS ½" tape 2-tracks were spec'd to 24KHz and measured to 27 KHz +/- 2dB) but even then no need really to go beyond 50 KHz cutting the master stamper direct from tape instead of digital.
A healthy skepticism rarely disappoints. Put another way, you'll win more than you lose.
I know nothing really about lasers, some stumbling around on the interwebs tells me:
With a CO2 laser and an ordinary ("affordable") ZnSe lens:
50 Watt laser, 6 mm beam and M 2 =1.1:
working distance, mm / spot diameter, mm / Intensity at focal point, W/sq mm
400 / 1 / 65
100 / 0.25 / 1000
25 / 0.06 / 16,000
The 0.06mm spot is 60 microns. Pretty fat. But you get the power, so whatever the problem might be, if he's cutting it as fine as he says he can, looks like he could vaporize whatever he wants.
But maybe there are better lasers, lenses, or beam focus? Somebody must know this stuff, there are too many smart people on this forum for this to be a mystery.
In the end, I hope we don't have to wait another year and a half to get this project in people's hands, so it's all academic anyway.
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I don't see that mattering that much, we are talking amortizing a very expensive piece of equipment doing a similar task. There is no economy of scale each master is unique, if I simply wanted a laser machined 12" round diffraction grid it would cost $10's of thousands and it is a mature business with quite a few companies offering these services.
Yet another point you can't vary the radial pitch at high speed to pack in more grooves because this simply becomes lateral information at audio frequencies.
It is not well known but femto-second lasers can cut by breaking inter-atomic bonds and not burning (it actually involves quantum stuff). So I propose two femto-second laser cutters mounted at 45 degrees and then a means to remove the kerf in one big piece just like with a lathe. Then make LP's one at a time as true audiophile items.
Now you're talkin'! 😉 They could sell for even more than those Tape Project reels.