Improvements
Still a mixed bag of speaks hooked up to test the BIB
but the booming is gone with a change of rooms and
amps.
I'm not very refined when it comes to equipment or
sources.
The amp used is an SS Yamaha RP U100. This unit
is designed to be used with a computer and is also a
receiver.
So I'm playing sound files to test rather than
original disks in the dvd/cd player I have from Sony.
I added some squares of pillow stuffing to the horn
mouth and poked some of the same up into the
peak. Supra baffle is still installed. I'm waiting for
some of those low notes that reproduce even well
in the MLTL design to emanate from the BIB.
Other things needed are: trim the base to get the
driver down to ear height. Original estimate of
41 inches is too high. I think Terry's original is
39. My ear height measured at a listening chair
was only 35in.
I did not rip out the bottom yet. Even adhesive caulk
is stubborn to loosen up once clamped.
Still a mixed bag of speaks hooked up to test the BIB
but the booming is gone with a change of rooms and
amps.
I'm not very refined when it comes to equipment or
sources.
The amp used is an SS Yamaha RP U100. This unit
is designed to be used with a computer and is also a
receiver.
So I'm playing sound files to test rather than
original disks in the dvd/cd player I have from Sony.
I added some squares of pillow stuffing to the horn
mouth and poked some of the same up into the
peak. Supra baffle is still installed. I'm waiting for
some of those low notes that reproduce even well
in the MLTL design to emanate from the BIB.
Other things needed are: trim the base to get the
driver down to ear height. Original estimate of
41 inches is too high. I think Terry's original is
39. My ear height measured at a listening chair
was only 35in.
I did not rip out the bottom yet. Even adhesive caulk
is stubborn to loosen up once clamped.
Hi!
I plane to build BIB for FE168ESigma. How do you think, will they work good with this amp? http://sound.westhost.com/project83.htm. Now this amp drives the pair of FE126E in Fostex recommended BLh with bass reflex. Sounds good.
I plane to build BIB for FE168ESigma. How do you think, will they work good with this amp? http://sound.westhost.com/project83.htm. Now this amp drives the pair of FE126E in Fostex recommended BLh with bass reflex. Sounds good.
Tame
give it a try; mine sound pretty good with a 250 watt A-A/B Hafler amplifer, but these drivers were intended for single ended triode amps and it shows. The BIB with these drivers will deliver the goods to the extent that a small tube amp will complete the picture and give you sound that makes high end salons scared, and don't want people to know about the Dark Arts of DIY speakers. The success of this alignment is now a matter of fact. Use the best materials you can justify, the best build, veneer, if you wish, you will be rewarded...
give it a try; mine sound pretty good with a 250 watt A-A/B Hafler amplifer, but these drivers were intended for single ended triode amps and it shows. The BIB with these drivers will deliver the goods to the extent that a small tube amp will complete the picture and give you sound that makes high end salons scared, and don't want people to know about the Dark Arts of DIY speakers. The success of this alignment is now a matter of fact. Use the best materials you can justify, the best build, veneer, if you wish, you will be rewarded...
Dan speaks works of wisdom here. The more effort you put in at this stage, the less it'll cost in the long run. If you can splash the extra now, go for it. Use the best birch ply you can lay your hands on at the very least.
FWIW, my dream combination of materials for a BIB, having devoured Terry Cain's many contributions on the subject of materials for horns, and Greg's comment and advice too, would run like this: Particleboard inner baffle and rear panel as it's stiff, but lossier, and will help kill any unwanted HF from leaking through. Solid maple or walnut for side baffles (alternatively Finland birch ply). Solid alder or maple for front baffle (alternatively, same ply as above). I'm dreaming here as I can't afford it. yet. One day...
(Got you drooling yet Dan?)
Valve amp for preference with horns, though some of the T-amps and Nelson Pass's class A Zen amps do extremely well as they have a very low damping factor (distortion isn't a problem as you're not using much of their output with speakers of this sensitivity, and it's mostly innocuous 2nd harmonic anyway). The FE168ESigma with a Qt of 0.26 isn't too bad for middle to high DF amps, but it really does prefer low DF if possible. For preferece with valves, I'd go for an EL34 based amp, run singled ended. The EL84 is better than it's big brother in many ways, but run SE, you really would need 8in drivers with their extra sensitivity to get the best out of them. 34 SE would be my choice.
Best
Scott
FWIW, my dream combination of materials for a BIB, having devoured Terry Cain's many contributions on the subject of materials for horns, and Greg's comment and advice too, would run like this: Particleboard inner baffle and rear panel as it's stiff, but lossier, and will help kill any unwanted HF from leaking through. Solid maple or walnut for side baffles (alternatively Finland birch ply). Solid alder or maple for front baffle (alternatively, same ply as above). I'm dreaming here as I can't afford it. yet. One day...
(Got you drooling yet Dan?)Valve amp for preference with horns, though some of the T-amps and Nelson Pass's class A Zen amps do extremely well as they have a very low damping factor (distortion isn't a problem as you're not using much of their output with speakers of this sensitivity, and it's mostly innocuous 2nd harmonic anyway). The FE168ESigma with a Qt of 0.26 isn't too bad for middle to high DF amps, but it really does prefer low DF if possible. For preferece with valves, I'd go for an EL34 based amp, run singled ended. The EL84 is better than it's big brother in many ways, but run SE, you really would need 8in drivers with their extra sensitivity to get the best out of them. 34 SE would be my choice.
Best
Scott
More wisdom. Listen to the naval historians and physicians, for they know about building healthy ...speakers??
Abit more juice for the 168 driver, 4-10 watts tube makes them REALLY jump and pump. A fantastic alternative is the Charlize amp from Yeo and order it with paper in oil caps, which has has on hand as well. Jensen coppers and T amps are a match made in heaven and there is very VERY little downshifting in refinement from some of the best SET amps, and will give you a very clean 6 watts, the oilers "slow" down the zippiness of the smaller T chips.www.diyparadise.com
Abit more juice for the 168 driver, 4-10 watts tube makes them REALLY jump and pump. A fantastic alternative is the Charlize amp from Yeo and order it with paper in oil caps, which has has on hand as well. Jensen coppers and T amps are a match made in heaven and there is very VERY little downshifting in refinement from some of the best SET amps, and will give you a very clean 6 watts, the oilers "slow" down the zippiness of the smaller T chips.www.diyparadise.com
Laser-cut Birch ply, huh? ...Sounds like you are making out okay over there. I cannot imagine a better result for woodcuts and cabinets.
There are little tube amp kits available for ~$130 using 6BM8 triode/pentode tubes, which are universally acclaimed, and could be something to look into, over time, of course. The reason I mention this is that when coupled to a tube amp, the Sigma168, the BIB, the whole thing makes sense to your ears, which say, "I get it!" Just to keep it in mind...
There are little tube amp kits available for ~$130 using 6BM8 triode/pentode tubes, which are universally acclaimed, and could be something to look into, over time, of course. The reason I mention this is that when coupled to a tube amp, the Sigma168, the BIB, the whole thing makes sense to your ears, which say, "I get it!" Just to keep it in mind...
Laser cutting? That's the stuff. Follow the usual stuffing and / or lining suggestions. For the stuffing, light quantity above the driver, and a layer on the base. If you go with the lining idea, line the front of the inner baffle, and one side of the enclosure. Perhaps some on the floor too. A highish resistance cable would be a very good move with your amp BTW. A couple of runs of magnet wire of around 20AWG would be a good plan. Even the 30AWG is worth experimenting with, though it scares the heck out of some people (understandable) seeing those hair-fine wires being used as speaker cable. If you're wondering, the resistance boosts Qe slightly. I have a plot to further explot this effect without needing to resort to resistors (nothing wrong with them if used properly, but if you can do it without needing to resort to them, why not, say I), which I'll work on over Christmas.
One final thing: if you can get a couple of suprabaffles lathe turned in a nice hardwood, so much the better. Make them about 7-8in over the driver diameter. The Fostex brass rings are worth exploring too to mass-load the driver, but they're not exactly cheap. Something to think about for the future anyway, along with amps.
One final thing: if you can get a couple of suprabaffles lathe turned in a nice hardwood, so much the better. Make them about 7-8in over the driver diameter. The Fostex brass rings are worth exploring too to mass-load the driver, but they're not exactly cheap. Something to think about for the future anyway, along with amps.
Re the driver to baffle, screws. Not the great evil some people would have you believe.
Baffle thickness about 1 1/2in IMO. It doesn't want to be flat if you can possibly avoid it, but with a constantly varying radii, i.e. getting progressively steeper the further out from the centre it gets. That's why I suggested lathe tuned. See below.
Baffle thickness about 1 1/2in IMO. It doesn't want to be flat if you can possibly avoid it, but with a constantly varying radii, i.e. getting progressively steeper the further out from the centre it gets. That's why I suggested lathe tuned. See below.
Attachments
Hi there!
Just recieved a package from Sonido. Those are to be BIBuilt in January. Build quality seems to be ok however the wires from coil to cable connectors are cold soldered, easy to fix but...
The surround is made of foam which are not so long lasting though I've yet to find sound differences compared to other solutions.
The diaphragm is made of brownish paper with some bigger fragments spread here and there. Whizzers seems to be different with a darker tone of brown.
Basket made of cast alu which have a quite rough surface on backside though front is better. Does not bother me but others might be.
Just hope the parameters will correspond. They are hand built so variations could occur.
And no I haven't got time to connect them as they are, without boxes. Maybe tomorrow.
Cheers
Just recieved a package from Sonido. Those are to be BIBuilt in January. Build quality seems to be ok however the wires from coil to cable connectors are cold soldered, easy to fix but...
The surround is made of foam which are not so long lasting though I've yet to find sound differences compared to other solutions.
The diaphragm is made of brownish paper with some bigger fragments spread here and there. Whizzers seems to be different with a darker tone of brown.
Basket made of cast alu which have a quite rough surface on backside though front is better. Does not bother me but others might be.
Just hope the parameters will correspond. They are hand built so variations could occur.
And no I haven't got time to connect them as they are, without boxes. Maybe tomorrow.
Cheers
Attachments
Forgot to mention that phase plugs are made of beech. They cost about 95 Euro/piece. I really don't know as I get some more "things" by post. I had a friend to buy them in Hungary and he is not so into hifi stuff. He could not tell what more is included.
He bought a diy kit according to him. I imagine there's some damping material, wires and terminals coming.
Peter
He bought a diy kit according to him. I imagine there's some damping material, wires and terminals coming.
Peter
For reference regarding WxD ratios, and BIB expansions. I was talking to both Martin and Greg about flares last night, and their answers unsurprisingly suport each other.
First up, Martin doesn't think that altering the overall WxD dimensions of a TQWT will make much, if any, difference to the response of the line (baffle step etc. having a far greater effect) providing the correct CSA for the pathlength is maintained. The 1:1.4142 [i.e. sqrt (2) ] Greg established is to preserve that constant cross section for a folded line with parallel walls -the bend is the bit that can mess it up a bit. For expansion at the bend to remain even, the aformentioned WxD ratio is necessary to ensure the path is equidistant from all walls, or there's a small deviation at that point, which will affect the performance of the line. Thanks Martin & GM, respectively.
It seems unlikely it's going to mess the response up that much, and it probably won't be audible to be honest, but, if anyone was wondering why the 1:1.4142 is considered the ideal, that's the reason. I'll spend a while with the Sections sheets at some point over the next few days investigating what subtle differences there are.
First up, Martin doesn't think that altering the overall WxD dimensions of a TQWT will make much, if any, difference to the response of the line (baffle step etc. having a far greater effect) providing the correct CSA for the pathlength is maintained. The 1:1.4142 [i.e. sqrt (2) ] Greg established is to preserve that constant cross section for a folded line with parallel walls -the bend is the bit that can mess it up a bit. For expansion at the bend to remain even, the aformentioned WxD ratio is necessary to ensure the path is equidistant from all walls, or there's a small deviation at that point, which will affect the performance of the line. Thanks Martin & GM, respectively.
It seems unlikely it's going to mess the response up that much, and it probably won't be audible to be honest, but, if anyone was wondering why the 1:1.4142 is considered the ideal, that's the reason. I'll spend a while with the Sections sheets at some point over the next few days investigating what subtle differences there are.
My BIB's
Well, here are my first BIB's. I have gone a bit of a different route on these. Due to terrible room acoustics and the fact that these may migrate to the theater room, I have added a tweeter. The driver is a Pioneer A11EC80-02F 4.5". I got these for a good deal and wanted to use them. I also had a pair of Dayton DC28FS-8 1 1/8" silk dome tweeters laying around. I coated the pioneer with 2 coats of Damar. This tamed it's wild HF and improved their looks. I used the Fostex 126/127e model for the BIB since the 126 was the closest match to the driver used. The wood is 3/4 birch laminate ply. The front baffle is made from some leftover pine 1x12's I had laying around. So far, I am very impressed and satisfied with their sound. They have overcome the room acoustics, and fill it with clear sound. I have not noticed them lacking, or having too much thar a little EQ tweaking can not take care of. I do say this after a few tweaks on the tweeter x-over. I realize this setup somewhat defeats a full range BIB, but, for the mild cost of $125 that was spent on the pair, I think I will keep them. Thanks for all the help guys! Here is a pic.
Well, here are my first BIB's. I have gone a bit of a different route on these. Due to terrible room acoustics and the fact that these may migrate to the theater room, I have added a tweeter. The driver is a Pioneer A11EC80-02F 4.5". I got these for a good deal and wanted to use them. I also had a pair of Dayton DC28FS-8 1 1/8" silk dome tweeters laying around. I coated the pioneer with 2 coats of Damar. This tamed it's wild HF and improved their looks. I used the Fostex 126/127e model for the BIB since the 126 was the closest match to the driver used. The wood is 3/4 birch laminate ply. The front baffle is made from some leftover pine 1x12's I had laying around. So far, I am very impressed and satisfied with their sound. They have overcome the room acoustics, and fill it with clear sound. I have not noticed them lacking, or having too much thar a little EQ tweaking can not take care of. I do say this after a few tweaks on the tweeter x-over. I realize this setup somewhat defeats a full range BIB, but, for the mild cost of $125 that was spent on the pair, I think I will keep them. Thanks for all the help guys! Here is a pic.
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