I hope to put together an inexpensive system to use at a weeken cabin.
I'm thinking about a Sonic T amp, and a pr of BIBs.
What drivers would be a good choice that provid a little extended upper end for an aging pro audio guy?
I had thoughts of trying the Pioneer A11EC80-01F (PE 290-010) for $10ea unless I can locate some 40-1354s...
Not opposed to a helper tweeter for a little "air".
Suggestions?
I read someone had tried these Pioneers but I can't locate the post.
Thanks.
I'm thinking about a Sonic T amp, and a pr of BIBs.
What drivers would be a good choice that provid a little extended upper end for an aging pro audio guy?
I had thoughts of trying the Pioneer A11EC80-01F (PE 290-010) for $10ea unless I can locate some 40-1354s...
Not opposed to a helper tweeter for a little "air".
Suggestions?
I read someone had tried these Pioneers but I can't locate the post.
Thanks.
I'm interested to see what you come up with to make it stay standing. With it sitting on the pointy end you will need some sort of "leg"
dave
Yeah me too! It won't have to be a sharp point though, only on the inside, Which will be created by the front and back panels. I could fix it to the wall too, with something between it and the wall of course. Shouldn't be too much of a problem. (famous last words) If all else fails I'll just make the sides rectangular and affix a proper solid base.
Do you reckon it'll sound good?
Cheers Stroop
dave
Yeah me too! It won't have to be a sharp point though, only on the inside, Which will be created by the front and back panels. I could fix it to the wall too, with something between it and the wall of course. Shouldn't be too much of a problem. (famous last words) If all else fails I'll just make the sides rectangular and affix a proper solid base.
Do you reckon it'll sound good?
Cheers Stroop
danielm said:
Our very own Dave (Planet10) has been selling off matched pairs on Ebay. Here is the current pair, five hours left!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280058039051
I haven't heard the Pioneers, but I'd lean toward the Tang Band Bamboos.
Paul
danielm said:
I used that exact model of pioneer 4.5's. So far I am really enjoying them. I got six of them on ebay for a total $25 with shipping. I do enjoy my high frequencies a bit, and the pioneers were lacking a little, so, I added the DAYTON DC28FS-8 1-1/8" SHIELDED SILK DOME TWEETER, m/n 275-075 at parts express. I realize this does defeat a single driver, but the room i am in has terrible acoustics. But the BIB's have overcome that obstacle. A few things I will mention that has helped, and I will post most of this later with some pics, I am a bit excited to show them off. I used the box sizing for the the fostex 126/127E off Godzilla's web site. I used two coats of damar on the pioneers, and i am running the tweeter in reverse polarity to correcty a rather noticeable phase issue. Oh, I used the 63"^2 model. I am overwhelmed at how these babies sound. I thought a BSC circuit may be needed, but if anything, the midrange is a bit sunken, the way I like it for the wide array of music that will be playing through them. I will try to get some pictures up on monday, I still have not stained the cabs yet.
Hope this helps a bit.
GM,
Now that's an interesting idea. Could make the front chamber for the FE87 just deep enough to clear the basket and then clear the magnet through the front panel of the BiB proper (sealing around it, of course) to still leave the maximal amount of volume. The internal width of the cab could be minimized similarly, too, by clearing the woofer's magnet through the opposite panel and sealing, though I would only clear it far enough to be flush with the panel surface. That face would up against the entertainment center and so hidden.
The FS on that Dayton woofer is so low for its size . . . if I could actually get this minimized profile BiB to be even close to flat to that frequency in room, I would be completely satisfied.
Kensai
Now that's an interesting idea. Could make the front chamber for the FE87 just deep enough to clear the basket and then clear the magnet through the front panel of the BiB proper (sealing around it, of course) to still leave the maximal amount of volume. The internal width of the cab could be minimized similarly, too, by clearing the woofer's magnet through the opposite panel and sealing, though I would only clear it far enough to be flush with the panel surface. That face would up against the entertainment center and so hidden.
The FS on that Dayton woofer is so low for its size . . . if I could actually get this minimized profile BiB to be even close to flat to that frequency in room, I would be completely satisfied.
Kensai
Kensai said:
Thanks.
I really like the look of those little FE107 BIBs he has built.
I will order some 4.5" pioneers. Might get some B20s as well to play with.
I have a carton full of the NSBs here. The BIB would be a miracle box if it made one of those listenable. It will be interesting to try. Otherwise, they need to find a new home. No amount of tweeking ever tamed that little .49cent sucker.
They weigh 80 lbs each. I put them on the scale.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-godzillabib.asp
Click above to see some pictures of what I’ve been enjoying the past couple days.
Front and top grills need to be made. You will see two pieces of oak on the bottom used to tip the speakers back a little. The book case also tips back a little because I always think it will fall over forwards (if you have small kids you will understand).
Several people heard my BIBs last night and every one had a very positive reaction. One friend is a fellow speaker builder loved them because they sounded so clear and alive. A music lover friend loved them for the same reasons but added the sound is so big. Other comments were ‘good bottom’ ‘so clear’ and ‘I can’t believe that little amp is driving them!’
They are very relaxing to listen too… I can listen all day to them. The sound seems to bounce out of the air. If there wasn’t two large speakers in front of me I’d swear it was a trick. Piano sounds big like a piano… a guitar player said they play guitar very well. Overall, most commented on the LARGE soundstage. No one said anything negative (which is rare!).
I think Scott has succeeded in simplifying back horn design. He’s modernized these designs with computer modeling to maximize performance. It’s very exciting actually to sit back and listen to these. They open up like nothing else I’ve heard to date. They are free of the confines of their cabinets and allow the music to reach out and grab you.
Even with the limitations of the SI amp (down 10 db in the bass) the speakers still sound full. I may re position one into a corner to see how the bass plumps up… or I may build a powered sub in the future just to warm things up a little (as per my taste)… otherwise, I think they are just amazingly clear and alive… and very real sounding.
Also, they don’t congest as much as the other cabinets I’ve had these drivers in. Cone motion is minimal… raunchy guitar sounds great on these.
The ultimate speakers may very well be BIB satellites and a BIB bass horn living somewhere in the room…
Happy holidays everyone!
Godzilla
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-godzillabib.asp
Click above to see some pictures of what I’ve been enjoying the past couple days.
Front and top grills need to be made. You will see two pieces of oak on the bottom used to tip the speakers back a little. The book case also tips back a little because I always think it will fall over forwards (if you have small kids you will understand).
Several people heard my BIBs last night and every one had a very positive reaction. One friend is a fellow speaker builder loved them because they sounded so clear and alive. A music lover friend loved them for the same reasons but added the sound is so big. Other comments were ‘good bottom’ ‘so clear’ and ‘I can’t believe that little amp is driving them!’
They are very relaxing to listen too… I can listen all day to them. The sound seems to bounce out of the air. If there wasn’t two large speakers in front of me I’d swear it was a trick. Piano sounds big like a piano… a guitar player said they play guitar very well. Overall, most commented on the LARGE soundstage. No one said anything negative (which is rare!).
I think Scott has succeeded in simplifying back horn design. He’s modernized these designs with computer modeling to maximize performance. It’s very exciting actually to sit back and listen to these. They open up like nothing else I’ve heard to date. They are free of the confines of their cabinets and allow the music to reach out and grab you.
Even with the limitations of the SI amp (down 10 db in the bass) the speakers still sound full. I may re position one into a corner to see how the bass plumps up… or I may build a powered sub in the future just to warm things up a little (as per my taste)… otherwise, I think they are just amazingly clear and alive… and very real sounding.
Also, they don’t congest as much as the other cabinets I’ve had these drivers in. Cone motion is minimal… raunchy guitar sounds great on these.
The ultimate speakers may very well be BIB satellites and a BIB bass horn living somewhere in the room…
Happy holidays everyone!
Godzilla
The venerable Fostex 168 acquits itself once again, I see..
Words like, "large," "big," "relaxed," have made their way into the BIB lexicon around here. Words I have not heard are, "honk," or "reverberant."
Yes, raunchy guitar sounds great with these, as well, but listen to Beethoven #3 iv, to get an idea of dynamics. Ridiculous-but-true, the Rickenbacker bass guitar sounds astounding in stereo, as do 24 bit synth patches of full organ, thru the BIB's. How's that for a home speaker? I think the 168 is overall the best-suited driver for BIB application, overall.
Words like, "large," "big," "relaxed," have made their way into the BIB lexicon around here. Words I have not heard are, "honk," or "reverberant."
Yes, raunchy guitar sounds great with these, as well, but listen to Beethoven #3 iv, to get an idea of dynamics. Ridiculous-but-true, the Rickenbacker bass guitar sounds astounding in stereo, as do 24 bit synth patches of full organ, thru the BIB's. How's that for a home speaker? I think the 168 is overall the best-suited driver for BIB application, overall.
doon doon doon
I've added a supra baffle on a temp basis to my bib for
the 127e.
this time I put it in the corner at 45d angle.
I'd have to say that there is still way too much boominess
with no interior treatment.
After hearing what zilla did with his, I draped a jumbo
sized bath towel down the open end to see if it cut
down on the doon doon doon which was overpowering
the direct radiation of the driver.
These may be issues of the Radio Shack SA155 amp
which is playing it. My next 'mod' is to get it out of that
corner again.
I've added a supra baffle on a temp basis to my bib for
the 127e.
this time I put it in the corner at 45d angle.
I'd have to say that there is still way too much boominess
with no interior treatment.
After hearing what zilla did with his, I draped a jumbo
sized bath towel down the open end to see if it cut
down on the doon doon doon which was overpowering
the direct radiation of the driver.
These may be issues of the Radio Shack SA155 amp
which is playing it. My next 'mod' is to get it out of that
corner again.
With no interior treatment? I'm not surprised. If they're still booming when pulled out of the corner, get some damping material battened around the mouth, a layer on the base, and the point above the driver stuffed too. That should work wonders for the presentation.
Don't know what wire you're running, but grab some magnet wire of the thickest gauge you can find -be about 18AWG, and use that. I don't believe in fancy cables, but these do work nicely, and cost very little. The basic LCR electrical properties suit these drivers when loaded like this.
Jeff -love your cabinets. Great build indeed, TC would be proud to see those. Tweak your amp, or replace with something else like the Charlise that isn't weak in the bass. You'll find a sub is the last thing you'll need. Cheaper too, plus, no integration problems (a sub will have to be very good to keep up with these).
Don't know what wire you're running, but grab some magnet wire of the thickest gauge you can find -be about 18AWG, and use that. I don't believe in fancy cables, but these do work nicely, and cost very little. The basic LCR electrical properties suit these drivers when loaded like this.
Jeff -love your cabinets. Great build indeed, TC would be proud to see those. Tweak your amp, or replace with something else like the Charlise that isn't weak in the bass. You'll find a sub is the last thing you'll need. Cheaper too, plus, no integration problems (a sub will have to be very good to keep up with these).
Kensai said:
Greets!
There's no need to 'hunt' for space savings, the Dayton only needs a ~6" diameter (~28.274"^2) terminus, though due to its low Fs it 'wants' a longer pipe, but you say you don't have the room. Here's the sim using the 'stock' ~138" long pathlength:
GM
Attachments
Scottmoose said:
Well, I can still reach inside and put something up in the
peak.
One thing I tried during dry fitting was some flat foam
from carpet underlayment directly behind the driver as
suggested. I didn't like it and thought it made everything
sound dead. Would the double thickness of the supra
baffle contribute any problems? Mine is stuck on with
rubber cement.
It's completely removable and isn'tquite on straight anyways. A better sound source is coming up the
road but right now I still only have the SA 155 and
computer files to play with.
I'm continually impressed with the GM MLTL by comparison.
I stuck my RS 1197's in those while fiddling with the BIB
and they sound good as well. It seems to be the most
versatile build I've constructed.
How exactly to 'batten the mouth'? Is that defeating what's
coming out of there?
Not really. Light layer of BAF wadding or similar glued around the inner part of the mouth, from the top about, oh, 6in down or so. Should help take down the bass while leaving the rest alone.
I doubt the suprabaffle is causing problems, though comparison might be good. What material did you use BTW?
I doubt the suprabaffle is causing problems, though comparison might be good. What material did you use BTW?
Godzilla said:
I just wanted to add my 2 cents here, as I think Zilla is dead on. I try not to concern myself with soundstaging and imaging, as I don't think they exist in the same way in real life. However, I can't help but notice it. Imaging with my Hemps in other enclosures was fantastic compared to most multiway desigs. However, with all the setups I tried, the soundstage still tended towards 3 islands: left, center and right. There were small gaps between the center and sides. This is completely gone with the BIB's. The soundstage is continuous. Images are a bit wider and less pinpoint, but much more organic.
Also, I think reduced excursion is the key to so much here. The highs and mids sound different, more relaxed and cleaner than the did in other enclosures. I can't help but think this and the imaging are due in large part to the drivers working much less hard. Doppler distortion should be considerably lower.
A female friend was over for a bit last night. She thought the BIB's made the room feel "cozy" (could be read to mean small, but she seemed positive) and "completed the room." There you go fence sitters, tell your SO you just want to "complete the room."
pj
...and a woman at that; "completing the room," is one for the books. I can add, in the good wood, even my mother, who is afflicted with the everything needs to be in good taste, interior decor-delusion disease, thought the dark stain Cherry BIB's with brass Dragonfly ring were: ..."elegant." --I kid thee not. It looks as though Martha Stewart-level 1 approval was given, so indeed, for the fence-sitting WAF preoccupied, we have some SERIOUS forward motion, and this is none too small an attribute to overlook. Very exciting.
_____________________________
I would like to add that it was Terry Cain who talked me into the Sigma168 drivers almost four years ago, and pointed me to the Japanese "Moai" 24L B/R alignment to get me going, including the weeks long burn in, to avoid letdown so often experienced by beholders of the new, nasty sounding drivers. In fact, it was Terry Cain who talked me into the idea of a big/fun driver rolling experiment, that is quite well known around these threads. What an incredible learning experience in a multidisciplinary field, all based on MUSIC. However, it was a months-long shared research of the annals of Phytopharmacology, super-foods therapies, and progressive medicine relating to his difficulties that we came to be very good friends, working toward a common goal... Ciao for now, Terry...
_____________________________
_____________________________
I would like to add that it was Terry Cain who talked me into the Sigma168 drivers almost four years ago, and pointed me to the Japanese "Moai" 24L B/R alignment to get me going, including the weeks long burn in, to avoid letdown so often experienced by beholders of the new, nasty sounding drivers. In fact, it was Terry Cain who talked me into the idea of a big/fun driver rolling experiment, that is quite well known around these threads. What an incredible learning experience in a multidisciplinary field, all based on MUSIC. However, it was a months-long shared research of the annals of Phytopharmacology, super-foods therapies, and progressive medicine relating to his difficulties that we came to be very good friends, working toward a common goal... Ciao for now, Terry...
_____________________________
Scottmoose said:
Materials for this sample are
Fiberboard for the front, divider and back.
Glue up pine side panels of the shrink wrapped variety
and the supra baffle is a 12x8 pine plaque from the
Hobby Lobby.
I used my trusty frosting spatula to release a couple
of the joints on the bottom to maybe get in there and
fit a piece of stuffing onto that element of the build.
Far as the trim around the mouth, fiberglass cut to
fit the walls sounds like the only solution but it is
so difficult to work with and I don't have any at
any rate.
If I had a long piece of foam rubber could that be made
into a loose fitting ring to do the job?
I'm also going to move the thing back into the
front room and get it off that SA 155 amp.
Anybody wanna buy a bunny? I'll sell the amp for what
I paid for it on Ebay (plus the chip repair it had to have
after a bit of use) and postage.
But first, moving and changing the amp source.
BTW glue creep made that supra baffle move on me.
Clamps are hell to work with because the errors don't
show up until you've turned off the lights for the day.