Ok,
Just about there.... My plan is, as I don't have a huge room and neighbours in Germany can be a sensitive bunch (I don't need highSPL)...I am going to try an fe103e in a straightened out BIB, it will be teamed with a T-amp. It is basically a wedge with the driver placed at the 'optimal' .434 line length. They'll be about 220cm (90inches) tall and shaped like a wedge from the side, therefore reducing timber needed, and reducing the impression of size! WAF... I have tall ceilings, around 10ft. I think the fact that they are straightened out and therefore tall, will engage the ceiling no problem.
I could go for the fe126e which is about 20-30cm taller and will give a bit more of everything....but, timber will be harder to get, and will reduce the distance from the horn opening to the ceiling to about 60cm's.
What I need now is anyone telling me why I shouldn't do it! And if I should which driver!
Please GM, Scottmoose...!
Cheers Stroop
Just about there.... My plan is, as I don't have a huge room and neighbours in Germany can be a sensitive bunch (I don't need highSPL)...I am going to try an fe103e in a straightened out BIB, it will be teamed with a T-amp. It is basically a wedge with the driver placed at the 'optimal' .434 line length. They'll be about 220cm (90inches) tall and shaped like a wedge from the side, therefore reducing timber needed, and reducing the impression of size! WAF... I have tall ceilings, around 10ft. I think the fact that they are straightened out and therefore tall, will engage the ceiling no problem.
I could go for the fe126e which is about 20-30cm taller and will give a bit more of everything....but, timber will be harder to get, and will reduce the distance from the horn opening to the ceiling to about 60cm's.
What I need now is anyone telling me why I shouldn't do it! And if I should which driver!
Please GM, Scottmoose...!
Cheers Stroop
Hi Stroop!
It will be perfect for your purpose reg neighbors. My BIB's sound really good at low levels. The bass drum is well defined and speedy. Much better than most "normal" speakers when listening at low levels.
Pjanda: Real nice birch on these monsters, Hemp I suppose?
Scott, I will recieve Sonido 6.5 inchers tomorrow evening.
I gave up the visit in Budapest due to a $%#*load of work before and after christmas. Just plunged ahead and bought them. I can post some porno pictures of them on Sunday. Hopefully I will finish these BIB's in January.
Cheers
It will be perfect for your purpose reg neighbors. My BIB's sound really good at low levels. The bass drum is well defined and speedy. Much better than most "normal" speakers when listening at low levels.
Pjanda: Real nice birch on these monsters, Hemp I suppose?
Scott, I will recieve Sonido 6.5 inchers tomorrow evening.
I gave up the visit in Budapest due to a $%#*load of work before and after christmas. Just plunged ahead and bought them. I can post some porno pictures of them on Sunday. Hopefully I will finish these BIB's in January.
Cheers
Two completed BIBs are in the back of my truck ready for transport to my office this morning. Hope nothing is mis-wired. Still haven’t heard them yet… but will later today! Stuffing behind the driver and at the base of the cabinet. Had to use a broomstick to get it to the bottom.
Peace,
Godzilla
Peace,
Godzilla
Kensai said:GM,
Thanks for theDefinitely don't have budget for failures like that. Just desperate to find a project that would actually be an all around upgrade to my existing mains in the living room.
Greets!
You're welcome!
IIRC I made the comment earlier that if I had known this thread would take on a life of its own I would have used a different criteria for sims since a corner horn can be acoustically large enough that the driver's Fs has little meaning WRT its cut-off when maximizing power handling isn't a major issue, but yours wouldn't be sufficiently corner loaded based on your description, so might be an issue if not floor loaded.
Anyway, as Cheesehead noted, there's more than one way to 'skin this cat', but I didn't have enough time to elaborate. I had in mind loading the woofer in the BIB with the FE87E 'tweeter' in a full height front IB cavity if there was enough room since its Qts is already on the high side. This allows you to place it at whatever height works best, be it ear height, 2/3 TV screen height, whatever.
Anyway, this woofer's Vas is so low that a BIB style pipe is a bit much for it, which isn't to mean don't use it, quite the contrary in apps such as yours where you're forced to 'make do' for whatever reason, so adjust your BIB design's depth to allow a deep enough front cavity for the tweeter and make the BIB 's divider length whatever is required to get the proper equidistant spacing. Driver location in such an acoustically large cab allows considerable latitude, so either mount the woofer on the same horizontal plane as the tweeter or as high up as it will physically go to make them as coincident a source as practical. The pipe's efficiency will probably jack it up enough to EQ them ~flat in-room to at least the driver's Fs.
Obviously, an XO will be required unless you plan on stocking 'tweeter' replacements by the case and I recommend it be at least 250 Hz/2nd order, though 500 Hz/1st is what I would try first since it's the technically correct 'textbook' thing to do based on published specs. Bottom line, unless you get lucky, some experimentation will be required. Here, a female's generally superior hearing is your friend.
GM
>>> Jeff -enjoy!
I’ve been enjoying Louie Armstrong all morning.
“When it’s sleepy time down South” gave the lawyer in the building goose bumps…
My initial impressions were that there was not enough bass and too much midrange coming thru the top – which produces an amazing amount of sound btw. So I placed more stuffing thru the top and pushed it with a broomstick to the bottom. This cleans up the midrange excess nicely. I don’t have them in corners only up against a wall… depending on the material the bass is full and ‘all there’ or slightly light. I need to continue listening but seems a corner would be optimal.
As for the quality of the bass… it’s very clean and dry. I’d call it accurate bass. Usually, I design in a slight bass hump for warmth…. Away from corners I’d say these sound flatter in the bass than my other projects. Drum thwacks are deliciously real. Bass drum fills the room. What’s most striking is the overall ease of presentation they have. The sound is effortless. I think it’s partly from the opening’s contribution. Midrange is very relaxed and ghostly. Imaging is very wide and tall. Sound seems to emanate from the entire wall. If violins are off to the left and back… they are way off to the left and back. Every time I look at the speakers they don’t seem to be the source of the sound. Cymbals have a sense of air… (I have a super tweeter on back but think the opening is also somehow contributing). Violins are very clean. I will have to try some heavy classical and get back to everyone.
Pop sounds great too… KT Tunstall’s vocals are crystal clear… guitar strums are very clean and clear… vocals are excellent… harmony’s can easily be dissected and sound lush… the large soundstage is the most surprising characteristic on first listen IMO… this may spoil me for other speaker types… only about one hour listening to them… later.
Godzilla
I’ve been enjoying Louie Armstrong all morning.
“When it’s sleepy time down South” gave the lawyer in the building goose bumps…
My initial impressions were that there was not enough bass and too much midrange coming thru the top – which produces an amazing amount of sound btw. So I placed more stuffing thru the top and pushed it with a broomstick to the bottom. This cleans up the midrange excess nicely. I don’t have them in corners only up against a wall… depending on the material the bass is full and ‘all there’ or slightly light. I need to continue listening but seems a corner would be optimal.
As for the quality of the bass… it’s very clean and dry. I’d call it accurate bass. Usually, I design in a slight bass hump for warmth…. Away from corners I’d say these sound flatter in the bass than my other projects. Drum thwacks are deliciously real. Bass drum fills the room. What’s most striking is the overall ease of presentation they have. The sound is effortless. I think it’s partly from the opening’s contribution. Midrange is very relaxed and ghostly. Imaging is very wide and tall. Sound seems to emanate from the entire wall. If violins are off to the left and back… they are way off to the left and back. Every time I look at the speakers they don’t seem to be the source of the sound. Cymbals have a sense of air… (I have a super tweeter on back but think the opening is also somehow contributing). Violins are very clean. I will have to try some heavy classical and get back to everyone.
Pop sounds great too… KT Tunstall’s vocals are crystal clear… guitar strums are very clean and clear… vocals are excellent… harmony’s can easily be dissected and sound lush… the large soundstage is the most surprising characteristic on first listen IMO… this may spoil me for other speaker types… only about one hour listening to them… later.
Godzilla
Does that mean you like them then Jeff? 
Heck of a good summary of these pipes properties. Your comments about the soundstage tally exactly with my own experiences. What are you running as speaker cable at present BTW? I remember you mentioned a twisted pair from Cat5 as internal wire. A tip TC gave me which I occasionally use is to grab the largest gauge of magnet wire from Rat Shack (or Maplin in my case in the UK) as main speaker cable. Usually about 20AWG or 18AWG I believe, depending on what they have in stock. Works wonders for the bass with these pipes. As do corners, but they're less portable. 
Scott
Heck of a good summary of these pipes properties. Your comments about the soundstage tally exactly with my own experiences. What are you running as speaker cable at present BTW? I remember you mentioned a twisted pair from Cat5 as internal wire. A tip TC gave me which I occasionally use is to grab the largest gauge of magnet wire from Rat Shack (or Maplin in my case in the UK) as main speaker cable. Usually about 20AWG or 18AWG I believe, depending on what they have in stock. Works wonders for the bass with these pipes. As do corners, but they're less portable.
Scott
Cables are a weak link in my very modest system! Cat 5 inside the speakers (which was simple to splice and connect), Radio Shack 16 gage from the cute little SI amp ($30 model), which is connected to my PC via a lovely Parts Express Dayton 3.5mm computer cable.
As listening continues I find myself totally enjoying these! A longer summary will surely follow… but I have to do a computer training class tomorrow and tonight’s our company holiday party (that’s why I wanted the BIBs done… for the party!).
Bass is deeper than I thought originally… it’s just lighter in weight than my typical preference… but still very good indeed. When I post pics you will see how the BIB design blends into my room décor nicely. They are big but visually they fit the space well and do not dominate the room at all. I moved my book case forward a few inches so the BIB didn’t appear to jut out too far forward. Everything looks flush and like it’s meant to be. They look almost exactly like my Straight Pipes!
My amp is not a bass champ, nor is the PC the best source… so these BIBs, as great as they sound, will certainly benefit from higher quality gear (I have a 35 watt tube Cary amp at home that I may try for kicks one day… but that’s heavy to move around too!). I bet the Cary would just make these BIBs bloom and sing even sweeter! But for now it’s the cheapie, bass light (but clear and clean sounding) Sonic Impact amp. Amazing how it even works at all.
All the little details in the sound are present and accounted for thru the BIB’s. The opening at the top is certainly making things interesting. Enhancing the imaging and sense of space around the musicians… who come alive thru the BIBs in a much more lifelike way than thru the Pioneer/Piezo’s they replaced. They do excite and energize the room differently than typical ported or sealed speakers. Just like the back horns they are… but without the bloat and hollow reverb sound some of them exhibit.
As listening continues I find myself totally enjoying these! A longer summary will surely follow… but I have to do a computer training class tomorrow and tonight’s our company holiday party (that’s why I wanted the BIBs done… for the party!).
Bass is deeper than I thought originally… it’s just lighter in weight than my typical preference… but still very good indeed. When I post pics you will see how the BIB design blends into my room décor nicely. They are big but visually they fit the space well and do not dominate the room at all. I moved my book case forward a few inches so the BIB didn’t appear to jut out too far forward. Everything looks flush and like it’s meant to be. They look almost exactly like my Straight Pipes!
My amp is not a bass champ, nor is the PC the best source… so these BIBs, as great as they sound, will certainly benefit from higher quality gear (I have a 35 watt tube Cary amp at home that I may try for kicks one day… but that’s heavy to move around too!). I bet the Cary would just make these BIBs bloom and sing even sweeter! But for now it’s the cheapie, bass light (but clear and clean sounding) Sonic Impact amp. Amazing how it even works at all.
All the little details in the sound are present and accounted for thru the BIB’s. The opening at the top is certainly making things interesting. Enhancing the imaging and sense of space around the musicians… who come alive thru the BIBs in a much more lifelike way than thru the Pioneer/Piezo’s they replaced. They do excite and energize the room differently than typical ported or sealed speakers. Just like the back horns they are… but without the bloat and hollow reverb sound some of them exhibit.
zilla pipes
So Jeff,
Did I get it right that you are using a t-amp in
your office setup?
I am still looking for a way to test my trial BIB
in the shop.
All I've had to play it on back there is a
Radio Shack SA 155 mini amp and playback from
a cd rom drive in a computer with mp3's.
With the known quality of the t-amp, I want to add
the minimal useable digital source such as a compact
(small) dvd player as they go on deal around this
time of year.
Sonic Impact t-amps are backordered at PE which
had the best deal on them ($27.95.)
So Jeff,
Did I get it right that you are using a t-amp in
your office setup?
I am still looking for a way to test my trial BIB
in the shop.
All I've had to play it on back there is a
Radio Shack SA 155 mini amp and playback from
a cd rom drive in a computer with mp3's.
With the known quality of the t-amp, I want to add
the minimal useable digital source such as a compact
(small) dvd player as they go on deal around this
time of year.
Sonic Impact t-amps are backordered at PE which
had the best deal on them ($27.95.)
Get a couple of runs of higher resistance wire on them Jeff and watch the bass take off. Or a small series resistor. The former is preferable, or at least that's what I gravitate toward -if you can do it that way, without needing additional components, so much the better, as it makes life easier for all concerned.
Thanks for the complements guys!
Jeff,
That SI might be robbing you of an octave of bass! As I'm sure you've seen, folks have measured F3's of 60hz on them. I say, drag the Cary and a player that you're sure has some bass over to the office and see how you like them. I'm sure a little series resistance could pump up the midbass a bit, but you may consider replacing some caps on the SI to get the BIB's potential.
All,
There's a guy over on AA with Lowthers in BIB's who seems to be having some bass issues too. I asked about series resistance and his seating position (not much bass in the center of my room, but plenty where I sit). He also appears to be using Decware Gizmo's (autoformers with a series resistor?) with them. Since you guys are the experts, I figured I'd point you over.
pj
Jeff,
That SI might be robbing you of an octave of bass! As I'm sure you've seen, folks have measured F3's of 60hz on them. I say, drag the Cary and a player that you're sure has some bass over to the office and see how you like them. I'm sure a little series resistance could pump up the midbass a bit, but you may consider replacing some caps on the SI to get the BIB's potential.
All,
There's a guy over on AA with Lowthers in BIB's who seems to be having some bass issues too. I asked about series resistance and his seating position (not much bass in the center of my room, but plenty where I sit). He also appears to be using Decware Gizmo's (autoformers with a series resistor?) with them. Since you guys are the experts, I figured I'd point you over.
pj
Zilla - that little S.I. amp is limiting your bass, for sure! Not doing wonders for the top end, either, I imagine.
You can have a look at my site for more info on that.
There are better T-Amps out there, even if you build one yourself. A 41Hz AMP6 should be killer-zillar on your BIBs.
Drop me an email if you have questions.
You can have a look at my site for more info on that.
There are better T-Amps out there, even if you build one yourself. A 41Hz AMP6 should be killer-zillar on your BIBs.
Drop me an email if you have questions.