It was popularized with a fullrange driver, that's probably why. Also, the use case really makes sense, because a BIB really helps a driver with bass extension, quality and quantity. Often where fullrange drivers need a little help (or a lot). With woofers, you could get a bigger one, or turn it up in the crossover or with EQ etc.
I had an 8" woofer in a BIB and it was great.
I had an 8" woofer in a BIB and it was great.
ok thats great.
i am indeed interested in putting a single 8" woofer (like peerless 830668) in the BIB and place it in the corner. after reading few pages about BIB i see the magic of BIB's performance lies in the fact that the mouth opens close to the ceiling. it helps to excite room modes better. hope i am on right track. if thats the case, i beleive a BIB fir 8" woofer with target Fr at 40hz, will be close to 8-9ft which is pretty close the ceiling in my home.
i am indeed interested in putting a single 8" woofer (like peerless 830668) in the BIB and place it in the corner. after reading few pages about BIB i see the magic of BIB's performance lies in the fact that the mouth opens close to the ceiling. it helps to excite room modes better. hope i am on right track. if thats the case, i beleive a BIB fir 8" woofer with target Fr at 40hz, will be close to 8-9ft which is pretty close the ceiling in my home.
The whole point about BIB's and horns and other large 'pipe' designs is to extract bass out of full ranges so you don't need a dedicated bass driver and crossovers and the rest of challenges that you face with a multi-driver design. If you are willing to use a woofer then you can find smaller cabinets that yield far more bass.
-uv
Got me curious; quickie sim in Hornresp, so not real accurate in detail, but a good indicator overall of what to expect.
Not too shabby for an entry level 10" [this model # not 8"], though at ~345 L is of course beyond huge by most folk's standards.
GM
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if its good to stick to full range drivers for BiB, then below are my options.
1. Tang Band W5-2143 5'' Paper Cone Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
2. Seas Prestige FU10RB H1600-08 4'' Full Range
3. dayton ps95 3.5"
i think i cant expect bass below 100hz for seas FU10RB and dayton ps95. but i hope for TB full range driver i can expect for the bass to go to 50hz.
in the BiB calculator sheet, how much Fr we need to select for a given Fs?
1. Tang Band W5-2143 5'' Paper Cone Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
2. Seas Prestige FU10RB H1600-08 4'' Full Range
3. dayton ps95 3.5"
i think i cant expect bass below 100hz for seas FU10RB and dayton ps95. but i hope for TB full range driver i can expect for the bass to go to 50hz.
in the BiB calculator sheet, how much Fr we need to select for a given Fs?
After what's been posted re using BIBs for 'sub'woofer duty and your takeaway is it's 'good to stick to full range drivers'?!
The fact is that all LF cab types are designed to only load in the driver's acceleration BW defined by Flc = Fs*Qts'/2 where it's rolled off to nothing.
Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance [Rs]: mh-audio.nl - Home
As you can see, the cab doesn't care what kind of driver it has, only 'feels' its acoustic loading.
The BIB spreadsheet automatically tunes the cab an octave below Fs [Fs/2] because it was first used mostly for higher Fs drivers and we wanted it to terminate somewhat close to the ceiling, so had to lower tuning enough to make it long enough when folded in half.
For lower Fs drivers that makes it too long, just put whatever Fs spec is required to get it to the desired folded height since it has no impact on the BIB's net volume [Vb] = 20*Vas*Qts^1.25.
GM
The fact is that all LF cab types are designed to only load in the driver's acceleration BW defined by Flc = Fs*Qts'/2 where it's rolled off to nothing.
Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance [Rs]: mh-audio.nl - Home
As you can see, the cab doesn't care what kind of driver it has, only 'feels' its acoustic loading.
The BIB spreadsheet automatically tunes the cab an octave below Fs [Fs/2] because it was first used mostly for higher Fs drivers and we wanted it to terminate somewhat close to the ceiling, so had to lower tuning enough to make it long enough when folded in half.
For lower Fs drivers that makes it too long, just put whatever Fs spec is required to get it to the desired folded height since it has no impact on the BIB's net volume [Vb] = 20*Vas*Qts^1.25.
GM
hi GM,
the reason i thought its safer to stick to FR driver was although i can afford to put a huge box in a corner, i still have limitations to how huge it can go. so wondered if it makes sense to build a BiB sub. since you mentioned that target Fs is going to be Fs/2, that means i can play around with spreadsheet and select a driver which can give optimum box size. with my requirement in mind, i am looking at 6.5" dayton sub DCS165-4 or peerless 6/8" woofers with Fs of around 40hz or even 50hz. let me calculate the boxes in sheet and update
the reason i thought its safer to stick to FR driver was although i can afford to put a huge box in a corner, i still have limitations to how huge it can go. so wondered if it makes sense to build a BiB sub. since you mentioned that target Fs is going to be Fs/2, that means i can play around with spreadsheet and select a driver which can give optimum box size. with my requirement in mind, i am looking at 6.5" dayton sub DCS165-4 or peerless 6/8" woofers with Fs of around 40hz or even 50hz. let me calculate the boxes in sheet and update
It's in this thread somewhere, I'm guessing summer 2016. I'm about to take the kids out, so no time to look. I can find it later today. I may check the design and have some updates.
Greets!
OK, to me the 'tone' of your response indicated ~ the complete opposite and whether or not a separate 'sub' system makes sense depends primarily on the mains' specs, power handling capability, etc., and whether or not the horn's fairly significant delay, which can't be corrected with a 'FR' BIB and can be with a separate 'sub' system, will be a 'nagging' issue over time for the primary audience
Correct, and if you want to shrink it further you can use a lower Vas or Qts for extreme changes, though of course bass response, driver protection below ~1.56x Fs goes down with it.
Note that while it hasn't been discussed beyond a comment I made about a dual driver Pioneer 8" [Bofu] BIB before this thread began IIRC, probably in many cases the best compromise is a combo BIB where both play in parallel in a common cab like was done in a reflex here or XO'd, with best overall of course being bi-amped: https://web.archive.org/web/2012031...ndell/xentar/1179/theory/dddllqd/dddllqd.html
GM
Note that I find that fullrange drivers of a certain size often require a larger BIB than a woofer of similar size. Woofers also often better laid out for large excursion etc. I find you can enjoy good and lots of bass with a fullrange driver, but woofers are better at exclusive... eh... "woofing"...
Also a BIB is such a wonderful enclosure for bass. A bass-only BIB with a woofer makes sense to me.
Also a BIB is such a wonderful enclosure for bass. A bass-only BIB with a woofer makes sense to me.
below is the driver i am planning to use,
Dayton-Audio-DCS165-4.
This is just 6.5" subwoofer
from the calculator, i am getting below details,
Driver Information
Fr 50.00
Vas (liters) 11.89
Qts 0.34
Calculated Intermediate Values
Vb (liters) 61.74
External CAB dimension( wood edges mitred 45°)
Depth 11.03
Width 7.71
Height with ext base 68.99
Height with int. Base 68.99
I have selected Fr as 50Hz. Does it mean the final response i will get from BiB is 25Hz?
Dayton-Audio-DCS165-4.
This is just 6.5" subwoofer
from the calculator, i am getting below details,
Driver Information
Fr 50.00
Vas (liters) 11.89
Qts 0.34
Calculated Intermediate Values
Vb (liters) 61.74
External CAB dimension( wood edges mitred 45°)
Depth 11.03
Width 7.71
Height with ext base 68.99
Height with int. Base 68.99
I have selected Fr as 50Hz. Does it mean the final response i will get from BiB is 25Hz?
Well, it means it will have usable high gain output down to ~25/0.81 = ~31 Hz, so may need spme form of high pass to protect the driver if there's not enough room gain, otherwise looks fine once stuffed to 'taste'.
Floor loaded? It's too short when folded to get close enough to a typical ceiling height.
GM
Floor loaded? It's too short when folded to get close enough to a typical ceiling height.
GM
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Right, and while TC's was only ~6 ft high, it's too low for best overall performance, though assuming here it's based on your max allowed 'footprint', so in retrospect, why not make it at max height based on this information here?: Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks? - Page 110 - diyAudio
This will lower tuning a bit, lowering/flattening out the gain BW by a couple of dB according to HR, so not an audible amount down this low, but protects the driver a bit more:
Ec = Rp*0.613
where:
Rp = pipe/terminus radius
Example:
terminus is ~40.4551"^2
Ec = 0.613*[40.4551/pi]^0.5 = ~2.482"
96" ceiling - ~2.482" = ~93.52" - 3/4" base plate = ~92.77", so allow a bit of error and make it 92" tall [folded] or shorten it more for carpet. This in theory will load ~10 Hz lower, which helps the driver a bit and increases the upper/mid bass.
Another option is build it as you spec'd it and add a well sealed 'tophat', a simple tube extension of the terminus, which if you wanted, could extend all the way up to mask as a column and notch out the sides for a vented terminus: Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
GM
This will lower tuning a bit, lowering/flattening out the gain BW by a couple of dB according to HR, so not an audible amount down this low, but protects the driver a bit more:
Ec = Rp*0.613
where:
Rp = pipe/terminus radius
Example:
terminus is ~40.4551"^2
Ec = 0.613*[40.4551/pi]^0.5 = ~2.482"
96" ceiling - ~2.482" = ~93.52" - 3/4" base plate = ~92.77", so allow a bit of error and make it 92" tall [folded] or shorten it more for carpet. This in theory will load ~10 Hz lower, which helps the driver a bit and increases the upper/mid bass.
Another option is build it as you spec'd it and add a well sealed 'tophat', a simple tube extension of the terminus, which if you wanted, could extend all the way up to mask as a column and notch out the sides for a vented terminus: Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
GM