GM said:it's the green or gray eyed, red or auburn headed 'foxes' that really makes my blood boil.
🙂
I confess, he makes a fine argument there. 😉
Re a high Q driver in a BIB, well, if GM's already worked out dims for you, you'll be fine.
The new Tone Tubby drivers aren't out yet. Watch this space. They're coming v. soon.
Re a high Q driver in a BIB, well, if GM's already worked out dims for you, you'll be fine.
The new Tone Tubby drivers aren't out yet. Watch this space. They're coming v. soon.
stroop said:
Greets!
Sadly, this is true and I imagine it makes your job much harder than it need be.
GM
Birmingham's latest concert hall is a case in point. Sounds great to the performers. Unfortunately, not so hot for the audience. And the tubular metal grab-rails that fill the place aren't damped, or weren't when I was last there, and ring like you wouldn't believe. Bad.
djn said:
Greets!
My short term memory being short, I don't recall doing it, but BIBs that I don't design to some set max dims are are acoustically large enough to over-damp the driver a bit, so while it's not going to reduce it to critically damped, it shouldn't sound 'loose' either unless the room boosts it too much, then you'll need to damp it with stuffing as required.
GM
GM, yeah...rather. But I'm getting used to it now. Expect the worst and if you end up with something nice...yahoo! Scott, if you're ever in Nice go to the theatre there and hear how Italian Opera was meant to be heard! Beautiful theatre, incredible acoustic! Like singing in the shower!!! ahhh lovely like balsam for the voice!
Stroop
Stroop
GM said:
GM,
as much as AJ's pessimism sometimes gets on my nerves (real life results usually look a lot better than the sim - for example there's no way to sim the mids attenuating a Nagaoka folding does) but there's something one should well pay heed to. I bet we could swap war stories about vented boxes plus DC coupled amps plus wavy LPs and no subsonic filter.
PitPennant race
Has anybody done anything more with the pennant tweak or at least thought about it?
The pennant drawing a few pages back looks like a backhorn whizzer
(which may not be that bad of an idea.)
lon (looking at the blizzard outdoors in Appleton, WI)
Has anybody done anything more with the pennant tweak or at least thought about it?
The pennant drawing a few pages back looks like a backhorn whizzer
(which may not be that bad of an idea.)
lon (looking at the blizzard outdoors in Appleton, WI)
8in BIB driver options
This is my first post and I have been following this thread and everything related to OB I can find on the net for close to a year. I cannot decide on the ultimate OB . That said, as an obsessive compulsive DIYer , everything from slot cars, flyrods , ground up jeep restoration , first house , etc etc, I need a project.. ..I have spent a zillion hours on diy audio attempting to educate myself related to loudspeakers but the time has come to put the construction background to work and build a BIB.
I have 9 ft. ceilings and would like a dynamic build. My thought was a profile say 8ft or a little less and say 10-12 by 18. However first and foremost is not profile but the music. My understanding is the ff225k is in this range .Although I have yet to see it mentioned in the BIB I understand the 208sigma/ t 90 is a horn favorite of many. If I am gaining little over the popular 165k build please note. I have all the tools available to make a custom build but near brain dead when it comes to the math. I have Paradigm studio 40's now and I want to get away from the " box" ie horns and OB
Thanks in advance
Greg
This is my first post and I have been following this thread and everything related to OB I can find on the net for close to a year. I cannot decide on the ultimate OB . That said, as an obsessive compulsive DIYer , everything from slot cars, flyrods , ground up jeep restoration , first house , etc etc, I need a project.. ..I have spent a zillion hours on diy audio attempting to educate myself related to loudspeakers but the time has come to put the construction background to work and build a BIB.
I have 9 ft. ceilings and would like a dynamic build. My thought was a profile say 8ft or a little less and say 10-12 by 18. However first and foremost is not profile but the music. My understanding is the ff225k is in this range .Although I have yet to see it mentioned in the BIB I understand the 208sigma/ t 90 is a horn favorite of many. If I am gaining little over the popular 165k build please note. I have all the tools available to make a custom build but near brain dead when it comes to the math. I have Paradigm studio 40's now and I want to get away from the " box" ie horns and OB
Thanks in advance
Greg
Pit Hinder said:
Greets!
Oh yeah, Crown DC300 and Phase Linear 400 amps were lethal! Not to mention Altec's 770 bi-amp system. 🙁
GM
Hi GM, since the Alpine drivers I am using in my BIBs handle a min of 40 watts and a max of 200 watts, I am sending them to my daughter with a Crown D150. The Crowns are the Hum-vees of amps. Cheers.
djn said:
Maybe a HumVee with no muffler & an oil leak... that was one of the most painful amps i ever heard (especially when used with an IC150)
dave
GM, how come they new how to do it then! and not now! I think maybe they had the time and the resources to knock it down once or twice to get it right! Also its only the best that survived!
It's funny, for what I do, the vibrancy and immediacy of the space is important, not damped, but the reflections tamed. So you can hear detail and text but the beauty of the overtones are not removed. Personally I think they are trying to make venues too big. You can hear when the sound comes back to you a second later, but for that second there is a big black hole when you feel alone and it is very disconcerting, not to mention confusing when text is involved!
Thats how I like my sound system too. I like the energy and sparkle there but reflections tamed...I don't know how to do it though.
oh Coir carpet was nice when I heard it in a room with a system. If that helps.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to put the fe108's in something that limits their bass excursion a bit and get a sub to help. Metronomes!?
Then I'll do another BIB!!! With something a little larger! har har! ff165k...or something else.... got my eyes on something.
Stroop
It's funny, for what I do, the vibrancy and immediacy of the space is important, not damped, but the reflections tamed. So you can hear detail and text but the beauty of the overtones are not removed. Personally I think they are trying to make venues too big. You can hear when the sound comes back to you a second later, but for that second there is a big black hole when you feel alone and it is very disconcerting, not to mention confusing when text is involved!
Thats how I like my sound system too. I like the energy and sparkle there but reflections tamed...I don't know how to do it though.
oh Coir carpet was nice when I heard it in a room with a system. If that helps.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to put the fe108's in something that limits their bass excursion a bit and get a sub to help. Metronomes!?
Then I'll do another BIB!!! With something a little larger! har har! ff165k...or something else.... got my eyes on something.
Stroop
Re: 8in BIB driver options
Hi Greg. The 225K works fine in BIBs, though it needs a tweeter from about 8 - 9KHz. I built a pair for a friend about 18 months back. The 208ESigma, also with tweeter, should do nicely too in the pipe for the 206ES-R & should be somewhat more linear in the bass as it has more excursion. It's certainly the better driver -but so it should be, as it's their flagship unit, ignoring Japan only special editions.
GregOH1 said:
Hi Greg. The 225K works fine in BIBs, though it needs a tweeter from about 8 - 9KHz. I built a pair for a friend about 18 months back. The 208ESigma, also with tweeter, should do nicely too in the pipe for the 206ES-R & should be somewhat more linear in the bass as it has more excursion. It's certainly the better driver -but so it should be, as it's their flagship unit, ignoring Japan only special editions.
Re: 8in BIB driver options
Greets!
What class(es)? I was involved at various levels of the hobby/sport from 1960 - 2000 before my eyesight dropped off so much I couldn't follow anything faster than a Playfit racer on a short home track. 🙁
GM
GregOH1 said:
Greets!
What class(es)? I was involved at various levels of the hobby/sport from 1960 - 2000 before my eyesight dropped off so much I couldn't follow anything faster than a Playfit racer on a short home track. 🙁
GM
djn said:
Greets!
Seems to me I mentioned this before in your thread, but it's worth repeating.......... you NEVER want to clip a SS amp as it will destroy a driver quicker than anything I know of short of hitting it with a hammer or similar if it doesn't have a bullet-proof limiter ckt., which IIRC correctly the D150 doesn't, so if the drivers are truly rated for 200 W peaks, 3-6 dB headroom is desirable, or at least 400 W.
Anyway, my idea of a 'Hum-Vee' amp would be the QSC USA 900. The abuse I heaped on it made me wonder if it was indestructible, but it finally 'met its match' after ~6 mo. of driving a < 0.9 ohm load to frequent clipping.
GM
God help us Greg! 0.9ohms? What were you running? The most evil load I've ever known was the MK1 Apogee Scintilla dipole ribbons (1ohm). Had similar LF radiating area to 5, 15in bass units, and tragic eficiency. The bloke who owned them was running bridged Krells. 83db at the listening point 12 ft away was about your lot.
stroop said:
Greets!
Correctomundo! They kept building full size 'proofs-of-concept' until they were satisfied. Now they use sophisticated tools to see how much they can compromise a design and it still perform acceptably, with 'acceptably' being a 'floating' goal dependent on who's paying for it.
Well, it's not so much them being too big as what design tweaks they use to get a desirable reverberant field. I mean look at the Greek amplitheater I linked to, it's outdoors, so doesn't get any bigger than that. Indeed, it's one of the reasons it works so well, there's no delayed LF to throw off your timing/whatever and why good recording/mastering studios go to great lengths to decay away all the reverberant field below a certain frequency dictated by its net Vb, IOW make it acoustically 'feel' like the room is 'big as all outdoors'.
Study up on small room/studio acoustics, starting here: http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
I guess if I had a very small room, then loading tiny drivers in acoustically large, but still relatively small pipes would be fine, but to me they're just wide BW mid-ranges that should either be in huge BLHs or BW limited as required in optimum sealed cabs or OB.
GM