Glowbug,
Do you have any opinions on the use of Butler car amps for high quality, inexpensive home audio amps, the smallest one, the TDB275 might be perfect for applications like these. About 30+ watts @ 8Ohms, and I have nothing but respect for what I know of the design, which is an evolution of the tube driver guitar stomp box that gives David Gilmour just abit of sustain, a big part of the PF sound. A Pink Floyd approved hybrid sand and glass amplifier...I see no reason why they couldnt be easily adapted with a decent power supply, and have read nothing but glowing reports on the home stuff they make, which wouldnt deviate at all from the basic design, Tube Driver Blue.
Do you have any opinions on the use of Butler car amps for high quality, inexpensive home audio amps, the smallest one, the TDB275 might be perfect for applications like these. About 30+ watts @ 8Ohms, and I have nothing but respect for what I know of the design, which is an evolution of the tube driver guitar stomp box that gives David Gilmour just abit of sustain, a big part of the PF sound. A Pink Floyd approved hybrid sand and glass amplifier...I see no reason why they couldnt be easily adapted with a decent power supply, and have read nothing but glowing reports on the home stuff they make, which wouldnt deviate at all from the basic design, Tube Driver Blue.
another practical question
I have a quick question that shouldn't take much to answer.
I am just putting the fronts on my BIB enclosures and have offered up the drivers to the holes (no supra baffles yet - still need to find a turner). The hole dia for the FE168ESig is 155mm and looking from the side, 18mm thick ply leaves a little of the driver with free air behind it to breath. Surely when I place my drivers in an inch thick supra baffle, the combined thickness of 1 and 3/4 inches will completely cover the driver, affectively putting it into a 155mm dia pipe?
What do folks do about this? I see from the sketches it looks as if the front 'panel' of the enclosure is actually in two parts. If this is the case then I would be worried about having enough material to secure the supra baffles in to using t-nuts. Only have top and bottom.
I was hoping to be able to screw the supra baffles on (say using 6 t-nuts and bolts) so they can be removed for tuning the stuffing until I am really settled, and then glue and screw to finish.
Can someone enlighten me please?
I have a quick question that shouldn't take much to answer.
I am just putting the fronts on my BIB enclosures and have offered up the drivers to the holes (no supra baffles yet - still need to find a turner). The hole dia for the FE168ESig is 155mm and looking from the side, 18mm thick ply leaves a little of the driver with free air behind it to breath. Surely when I place my drivers in an inch thick supra baffle, the combined thickness of 1 and 3/4 inches will completely cover the driver, affectively putting it into a 155mm dia pipe?
What do folks do about this? I see from the sketches it looks as if the front 'panel' of the enclosure is actually in two parts. If this is the case then I would be worried about having enough material to secure the supra baffles in to using t-nuts. Only have top and bottom.
I was hoping to be able to screw the supra baffles on (say using 6 t-nuts and bolts) so they can be removed for tuning the stuffing until I am really settled, and then glue and screw to finish.
Can someone enlighten me please?
The internals will need back-cutting & chamfering as much as you can achieve to give the driver a bit more breathing room. Like Derek did with his Ariel's here: http://www.iol.ie/~waltonaudio/ariel5.html
Thanks for that Scott. I don't have a router and so am going to have to put some work in here! Do you advise to cut the front of the enclosure in to two peices as per the diagram on Zilla's site?
I like the Walton audio site too...and from Ireland. Might help in the search for my next project - a valve amp build.😀
I like the Walton audio site too...and from Ireland. Might help in the search for my next project - a valve amp build.😀
One of the things I love about the BIB is that the basic concept is so simple it lends itself to modifications and tweaks. There's been a few suggestions of late -here's a couple more simply based on altering the flare-rate away from the linear expansion. I've had a very quick & rough look at them in the TL Sections sheet, without attempting to optimise anything, and they do indeed cause some changes to the response. The first if shaped 'correctly' gives almost a parabolic flare / expansion for the 2nd half of the line, the latter closer to conical. Thought I'd post them here in case they're of interest to anyone.
Attachments
Well, Jeff doubled the front panels on his, but he didn't cut it in two. Are you thinking of the top diagram on the 'How to' page? That's not cut in two -just a lighter shade was used around the driver.
Depends what materials / driver / cabinet combination as to the effect. Derek didn't have a router either (nor do I come to think of it), so it's a bit of a pain, but should be worth the effort. The more you put in at this stage, the better they should end up being.
Depends what materials / driver / cabinet combination as to the effect. Derek didn't have a router either (nor do I come to think of it), so it's a bit of a pain, but should be worth the effort. The more you put in at this stage, the better they should end up being.
I was referring to the lower, new, transparent diagram with the oval front baffle. It looks as if the ply front to the speaker has a section cut out (with a 45 degree shamfer) to allow more space behind the driver?
I was just concerned that the drivers will be suffocated by placing them in a wooden tube that fills all the driver depth up to the magnet.
I was just concerned that the drivers will be suffocated by placing them in a wooden tube that fills all the driver depth up to the magnet.
Ah, I see what you mean. I hadn't noticed Dave had done that before in that render. No, I wouldn't chop the front in half, but you could cut a square out of it if you felt so inclined, and chamfer the edges to smooth them. Then there'd only be the suprabaffle thickness for you to worry about.
Re: another practical question
In this close-up of the Bruce visulaization you can see how the inner layer of the baffle is opened up -- that is how i approach this problem. (note: the visualization does not show the 45 degree angle that we would relieve the back of the circular opening with -- if you don't have a router, a big rasp will also do the job.
dave
Martin Prothero said:
In this close-up of the Bruce visulaization you can see how the inner layer of the baffle is opened up -- that is how i approach this problem. (note: the visualization does not show the 45 degree angle that we would relieve the back of the circular opening with -- if you don't have a router, a big rasp will also do the job.
dave
Attachments
Thanks for that Dave. Looking at the pic, it seems that I can cut a square in the speaker fronts and then angle the inside edge of the suprabaffle. But this doesn'y leave a lot of material to screw the suprabaffles to. Most of it cut away when making the square cut out.
Maybe I should glue the suprabaffle on and keep the fronts of the speakers just fixed with screws until I am happy with the tuning?
M
Maybe I should glue the suprabaffle on and keep the fronts of the speakers just fixed with screws until I am happy with the tuning?
M
🙂 Should be interesting. I reckon the wavelaunch from that wide baffle should be pretty good.
dmason said:
My roommate used to have a Butler amp, it sounded very nice.
Only issue I had with it was that the 6L6's were hardwired in instead of in sockets, but apparently they never needed to be swapped. Still, they're 10 to 15 year-old amps, I'm sure a re-tubing couldn't hurt in a few years...
This has taken longer than it should have, but my deepest thanks to Scott, GM and Dan
for bringing the BIB to the forefront and keeping the enthusiasm up. I finished my 168EZ
BIB's 3 months ago, but wanted some hours on them before commenting. Their strengths
have been repeated many times through this (long) thread, and I don't have any experience
with really good speakers to compare them to, but what they do , and the way they do it
leaves me staggered some times. From beautifully delicate female vocals to thundering,
floor shaking base, well, let's just say, I'm very happy.
I also need to thank Earle Weston, whose amp is definately playing it's part in what I'm
hearing. It's his 'Temerity' model, a KT-88 single ended beauty....
I'm using a playstation 1 with Earle's amp and 168 Bib's for music, and as a home theatrish
arrangement for movies, the plasma is connected to a Bose lifestyle system ( yes, I know,
but I didn't back then, it was over 10 years ago, and I was naive ). Or it was. The thing just
karked it.
So, having not been too fussed with actual surround sound, and looking at what I can
afford to replace the Bose with, I thought the best sound I'm going to be able to get, I
already have. I connected up the plasma, dvd player tube amp and Bibs as an experiment.
Played Fellowship of the Ring, and it sounded pretty good, really good actually. The bibs go
lower than the Bose's sub, and the sound is much sweeter.
Can someone tell me if this is a good idea? or not? If the dvd player is set to stereo,
will anything be lost in the recording? Is it necessary to have a surround soud processor to
get the best out of a dvd?
Thanks again guys........ now if you could just help me out once more
John.
for bringing the BIB to the forefront and keeping the enthusiasm up. I finished my 168EZ
BIB's 3 months ago, but wanted some hours on them before commenting. Their strengths
have been repeated many times through this (long) thread, and I don't have any experience
with really good speakers to compare them to, but what they do , and the way they do it
leaves me staggered some times. From beautifully delicate female vocals to thundering,
floor shaking base, well, let's just say, I'm very happy.
I also need to thank Earle Weston, whose amp is definately playing it's part in what I'm
hearing. It's his 'Temerity' model, a KT-88 single ended beauty....
I'm using a playstation 1 with Earle's amp and 168 Bib's for music, and as a home theatrish
arrangement for movies, the plasma is connected to a Bose lifestyle system ( yes, I know,
but I didn't back then, it was over 10 years ago, and I was naive ). Or it was. The thing just
karked it.
So, having not been too fussed with actual surround sound, and looking at what I can
afford to replace the Bose with, I thought the best sound I'm going to be able to get, I
already have. I connected up the plasma, dvd player tube amp and Bibs as an experiment.
Played Fellowship of the Ring, and it sounded pretty good, really good actually. The bibs go
lower than the Bose's sub, and the sound is much sweeter.
Can someone tell me if this is a good idea? or not? If the dvd player is set to stereo,
will anything be lost in the recording? Is it necessary to have a surround soud processor to
get the best out of a dvd?
Thanks again guys........ now if you could just help me out once more
John.
You're welcome -glad we could help out & you're enjoying the speakers.
Re the question, no, not really. Surround sound is great to have, and it can certainly add an extra layer of atmosphere, but it's not essential. I don't have room for a surround rig myself, so I just don't bother. So long as you select the stereo mix from the DVD, you won't have any problems.
Re the question, no, not really. Surround sound is great to have, and it can certainly add an extra layer of atmosphere, but it's not essential. I don't have room for a surround rig myself, so I just don't bother. So long as you select the stereo mix from the DVD, you won't have any problems.
Ok...I know, this is a fullrange forunm...but how about a BIB with this cutie and a good tweeter?
http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/tiefmittelton/al130_8.html
http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/tiefmittelton/al130_8.html
Nice unit. It should drop straight into TC's original cabinet without any problems. FWIW, I'd XO at about 3 - 3.5KHz.