The Dayton EMM-6 cal file can be edited. Is there a documented fix?
I seldom need a calibrated mike, so spending big bucks wasn't in my plan. But if a budget mike's calibration file can be improved, why not?
BO
I own and use a UMM. It's neck is so fragile that it breaks while still in its padded box? LOL - that sounds like total bullcrap to me. Well, maybe if you fling it hard enough against a wall, or whack it with a sledgehammer. My UMM6 has fallen several times from my make-shift tripod without suffering any breakage, btw. That "tall" claim has me pondering who is it that actually stands to gain from making such outrageous claims about the UMM's fragility.
OH BTW - I live in Grenada, West Indies, and my UMM6 arrived just fine from the US by air freight. CS' claims about its "fragility" are rubbish IMO.
And I think Mark has already touched on what can affect a Mic's calibration.
Whatever, if there's any chance it's going to break on me with regular handling I don't want it. Here's a couple of quotes to brighten your day. And when the manufacturer admits there a fragility problem, it's a huge problem, IMO. They don't usually like to do that.
Both these quotes are from the CSL guy and there's more out there for anyone wanting more info.
Whether this is truly an issue or not (I'd tend to trust the guy known for reliability and integrity making peanuts calibrating these) it's easy enough to avoid by just getting the other almost identical mic that isn't known for breaking in half.
I'm not going to be freezing or baking my mic so I'm not too worried about it losing the calibration.
PS - it's possible they were not breaking during the shipping process, I just assumed that was the issue with selling to overseas customers. I didn't think he would refund people that break it on their end, maybe he does and doesn't want to continue that. USPS DOES drop items from 3 feet or higher and squashes them with larger and heavier packages dropped on top of them from 3 feet or higher as part of their normal sorting process, so I really wouldn't doubt it. I know you've heard the shipping horror stories. Either way, this isn't the mic for me.
Both these quotes are from the CSL guy and there's more out there for anyone wanting more info.
Whether this is truly an issue or not (I'd tend to trust the guy known for reliability and integrity making peanuts calibrating these) it's easy enough to avoid by just getting the other almost identical mic that isn't known for breaking in half.
I'm not going to be freezing or baking my mic so I'm not too worried about it losing the calibration.
PS - it's possible they were not breaking during the shipping process, I just assumed that was the issue with selling to overseas customers. I didn't think he would refund people that break it on their end, maybe he does and doesn't want to continue that. USPS DOES drop items from 3 feet or higher and squashes them with larger and heavier packages dropped on top of them from 3 feet or higher as part of their normal sorting process, so I really wouldn't doubt it. I know you've heard the shipping horror stories. Either way, this isn't the mic for me.
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Have you seen the case that the UMM6 is packaged in? It would have to be severely and noticeably damaged before the UMM6 inside of it is damaged.
I'm sorry, but unless this guy is referring to another UMM6 that I'm not aware of, this really sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me.
Oh, interestingly enough NONE of the reviews of the UMM6 on PE's page refer to its "fragility". One review actually referred to its "secure boxing".
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-umm-6-usb-measurement-microphone--390-808
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Good enough, I really don't care. There's another mic that's almost identical and cheaper (without the pro cal) with no reported issues that I know of. I'm glad you are happy with your mic. I'm not buying that model though.
You can't fix a cal file. You test against a known good mic and make a new cal file. Easy as pie, if you have a known good mic.
If you just want to measure subs I wouldn't worry about it. The Dayton cal files are wonky in the khz range. Almost all mics (even pretty bad ones) are usually fairly accurate in the subwoofer range.
There's threads about the Dayton cal file issue, you can see exactly where the problem is compared to known good mics.
This is an known ongoing issue for several years now. Dayton and PE have no comment, just like they had no comment on the WT3 issues until they introduced the new version recently, addressing all the ongoing well known, well documented issues and saying the new version would fix the issues right up.
Just the first few hits in a search. There's dozens more at least.
Dayton EMM-6 vs Cross Spectrum EMM-6
Emm-6 calibration
How accurate are Dayton Audio's EMM-6 calibration files?
EMM-6 Microphone Calibration Problem
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/169702-dayton-emm-6-cal-files-wrong.html
Just the first few hits in a search. There's dozens more at least.
Dayton EMM-6 vs Cross Spectrum EMM-6
Emm-6 calibration
How accurate are Dayton Audio's EMM-6 calibration files?
EMM-6 Microphone Calibration Problem
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/169702-dayton-emm-6-cal-files-wrong.html
Great information, though a couple of those were for scientific calculator based reading. 🙄
I freely admit that IB holds strong appeal for our organ setup. We have open unused space right above our ceiling. There are 2x4 based supports for the roof. But I'm confident that there is probably well over 800 cu. ft. - of open space.
The obvious advantage of two or four drivers mounted horizontally so their rear is in that open space is that they would not occupy floor space - which is in very short supply.
It would be messy to cut a 2 foot x 3 foot hole for the manifold board for each pair of drivers. The ceiling is 1928 vintage plaster and lathe construction.
I've been advised that IB with two drivers probably won't provide the kind of SPL that the T-TQWT box could provide with one HT18. I invite contrary opinions.
The dimensions of the box Oliver has designed are big - though not too big. But I'll still have to figure out how to fit it into the speaker chamber.
A Plan B approach would be to mount the cabinet above the ceiling supported by the ceiling joists. The "mouth" of the horn would open into the speaker chamber. But the dimensions on this cabinet are wider than a 16 inches on center joist system.
Plan C would be to suspend the box horizontally using cables attached to heavy duty rings screwed into the ceiling joists. That would require a lot less cutting and reduce the plaster dust. This has some real advantages. I welcome any and all ideas and thoughts.
I have no great desire to build a box I cannot use. As I work up there over the coming days, I'll be eyeball thinking and cogitating on where and how it could be mounted.
Oliver, you have not taken over this thread. You provided good information - at least from my perspective. Some of the sharper knives in the drawer might want to dig and cut on you. But I surely don't.
JAG and I are probably the two most long-winded participants in this thread. And he's often trying to convey lots of detailed technical info. I'm just naturally verbose. Your posts could be called very short stories compared with ours. Keep up the good work.
Bach On
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Dayton EMM-6 vs Cross Spectrum EMM-6
That's the EMM6, not the UMM6.
Emm-6 calibration
That's the EMM6, not the UMM6
How accurate are Dayton Audio's EMM-6 calibration files?
That's the EMM6, not the UMM6
etc.
The EMM6 and the UMM6 (which is what Mark referred to), are different mics
Here's the EMM6:
Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone
...and here's the UMM6:
Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB Measurement Microphone
The EMM6 looks like the Behringer ECM8000, which I also own.
That's the EMM6, not the UMM6.
Emm-6 calibration
That's the EMM6, not the UMM6
How accurate are Dayton Audio's EMM-6 calibration files?
That's the EMM6, not the UMM6
etc.
The EMM6 and the UMM6 (which is what Mark referred to), are different mics
Here's the EMM6:
Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone
...and here's the UMM6:
Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB Measurement Microphone
The EMM6 looks like the Behringer ECM8000, which I also own.
Comparing the mic that came with a Teresonde Audio Toolbox I found it to be 10 dB down at 20 Hz from the B&K 4004.
Not knowing it lacked LF at the time made me develop some cabinets with bumped up LF...
The RTA420 mic I usually use is about 3 dB down at 20 Hz (IIRC).
Let's have some scientific rigour here.
If you move your mic a few inches or if you change freq by a few Hz (as if anybody on this forum has ever checked their sources with a frequency meter or even just scope Lissajou figures), results can shift about by 10-20 dB.
My Dayton mic individual calibration is close enough to flat that nobody with a grasp of professional R&D would go to any trouble to include it or to exclude it, given the much larger variation of the rest of the measurement system.
The art of measurement is to set up your data collection so as to do A-B, before-and-after, or other strategies and kinds of comparisons where absolute calibration doesn't matter so long as you are working "cleanly" enough to keep the measurements stable. Can't always do it, but that's the way to work.
What is really neurotic is not making measurements because your mic might be a bit off.
Ben
If you move your mic a few inches or if you change freq by a few Hz (as if anybody on this forum has ever checked their sources with a frequency meter or even just scope Lissajou figures), results can shift about by 10-20 dB.
My Dayton mic individual calibration is close enough to flat that nobody with a grasp of professional R&D would go to any trouble to include it or to exclude it, given the much larger variation of the rest of the measurement system.
The art of measurement is to set up your data collection so as to do A-B, before-and-after, or other strategies and kinds of comparisons where absolute calibration doesn't matter so long as you are working "cleanly" enough to keep the measurements stable. Can't always do it, but that's the way to work.
What is really neurotic is not making measurements because your mic might be a bit off.
Ben
Yes, I know these are all about the EMM, the UMM is fairly new, give it awhile and you will probably see reports on the UMM cal files too. All these mics come from the same company which is notorious for providing garbage cal files and not addressing the issue for years. It's actually pretty likely that these mics are all calibrated by the same people and they have the same problems.
Again, there's another mic that's almost identical, cheaper, and has no known issues. I'm happy you are happy with your mic, I'm not buying that model.
Scientific rigor starts with making sure your equipment works properly, I would think. You keep telling OP to verify his signal chain is passing what it should to the speakers, but ignore stuff like mic calibration and audible leaks in the box.
For people that design speakers, having a properly calibrated mic will get you a lot closer a lot faster than one that is off by several db in the top few octaves. A-B testing can't help with that.
For the record, I used an uncalibrated mic for years, but I was only able to trust it after spending a long time comparing against known good measurements. The fact that it was a known good mic capsule helped too. At this point I'm willing to pay a few $$$ to have a properly calibrated mic.
Hilariously, the conclusion drawn by a few posters in one of the threads you provided a link for is that the Dayton calibration files are good enough.
Read it again: How accurate are Dayton Audio's EMM-6 calibration files?
Yeah, hilarious. This was also posted in that thread, the blue spiky line is the terrible Dayton cal, red line is the known good CSL on axis cal file.
Sure, some people will think that's good enough. Others have mentioned that the mic is more accurate if you don't use the cal file at all.
Chris Roemer mentions several times that it appears that this same spiky behavior occurs in all the cal files he's downloaded and compared, meaning it's a product of the environment the mics are measured in, not the mic.
Clearly someone is not very good at their job and this is an ongoing issue for several years now.
Again, I'm happy you are happy with your mic. When there's this much reporting of known issues and there's another almost identical product that's cheaper and has no known issues my money is not going to the company that willfully provides bad information.
Sure, some people will think that's good enough. Others have mentioned that the mic is more accurate if you don't use the cal file at all.
Chris Roemer mentions several times that it appears that this same spiky behavior occurs in all the cal files he's downloaded and compared, meaning it's a product of the environment the mics are measured in, not the mic.
Clearly someone is not very good at their job and this is an ongoing issue for several years now.
Again, I'm happy you are happy with your mic. When there's this much reporting of known issues and there's another almost identical product that's cheaper and has no known issues my money is not going to the company that willfully provides bad information.
Here's the calibration file for my UMM6. No jaggies that I can see.
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Forgiven 😉 Even though a lot of people might not post in some threads, they often get Lots of views.
I did
It's good to know you find it useful 🙂
Hi bentoronto,
Post #153: "...(as if anybody on this forum has ever checked their sources with a frequency meter or even just scope Lissajou figures)..."
I'm pretty sure some of us do. 🙂 Those scope/meters now pop up on ebay for very reasonable prices.
Also, here is a link to a discussion that looks to be pertinent to microphones for measuring the very low audio range, e.g.: around and below 20Hz.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/160879-build-your-own-2x12-th-kraken-212-th-22.html
Regards,
Post #153: "...(as if anybody on this forum has ever checked their sources with a frequency meter or even just scope Lissajou figures)..."
I'm pretty sure some of us do. 🙂 Those scope/meters now pop up on ebay for very reasonable prices.
Also, here is a link to a discussion that looks to be pertinent to microphones for measuring the very low audio range, e.g.: around and below 20Hz.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/160879-build-your-own-2x12-th-kraken-212-th-22.html
Regards,
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