When is the last time you personally listened to resistors? Wire? Capacitors?
Why do you need to have an opinion about what is audible to others?
You can really shine in technical threads, why waste effort on arguing subjective assertions?
You can bypass the input follower, but certainly not the output. And why one needs a high Rp, high mu tube in a line stage is just another French mystery.
Everyone should own a nice passive preamp just to test how much musical information has been swallowed and converted to heat inside their complicated line stage
"When is the last time you personally listened to resistors? Wire? Capacitors?"
Dear analog_sa, you took these words out of my mind!
These is a thread made for people who spent years on testing resistors and capacitors, to share their findings.
Who believe that a wire is a wire, a power cord is just a high current tri-wires, resistor is a resistor, film cap is a film cap and so on have plenty of other threads where they can pontificate about hi-end (just a suggestion: what about a nice thread on a new D/A chip having -141dB of THD instead of -136dB of the previous version? That sounds fashinating!).
Ciao!
Tino
Dear analog_sa, you took these words out of my mind!
These is a thread made for people who spent years on testing resistors and capacitors, to share their findings.
Who believe that a wire is a wire, a power cord is just a high current tri-wires, resistor is a resistor, film cap is a film cap and so on have plenty of other threads where they can pontificate about hi-end (just a suggestion: what about a nice thread on a new D/A chip having -141dB of THD instead of -136dB of the previous version? That sounds fashinating!).
Ciao!
Tino
you probably have forgotten more than I will ever know. There is some evidence that resistors produce noise as current flows through them (in select locations in a circuit). Some of the things people claim to hear may be due to that aspect.
I'm reading alot of good comments about the Vishay Zfoils in this thread
resistor comparison test - tantalum?
I might skip installing the new 150k and 2.2 k Takman Rey's , and think about ordering the
Zfoils, but only offered in 1/2 watt.
I need 1 watt.
I think Richrad Grey just wrote and mentioned he's not worried about employing 1/2 watt in the
2.2 and 1.8 circuit.
My q is, the schematic calls for 150k 1 watt,,so which Zfoil 1/2 watt do I order?
also 470k /1 watt and 46k @ 1 watt?
I will report back ASAP when comparing to Jadis' metal R's.
Vishay Z-Foil (TX2575) Series - Radial Resistors
resistor comparison test - tantalum?
I might skip installing the new 150k and 2.2 k Takman Rey's , and think about ordering the
Zfoils, but only offered in 1/2 watt.
I need 1 watt.
I think Richrad Grey just wrote and mentioned he's not worried about employing 1/2 watt in the
2.2 and 1.8 circuit.
My q is, the schematic calls for 150k 1 watt,,so which Zfoil 1/2 watt do I order?
also 470k /1 watt and 46k @ 1 watt?
I will report back ASAP when comparing to Jadis' metal R's.
Vishay Z-Foil (TX2575) Series - Radial Resistors
Because its not audible. When was the last time you blind tested this listening? Self delusion is huge in audiophool land.
Because its not audible. When was the last time you blind tested this listening? Self delusion is huge in audiophool land
WEll had my tech NOT told me he swaped the Jadis metal to his(but he says it was mine,,but HIS suggestion) to Carbon composite,, yeah I *might have* missed being aware of a resistor change in the plates,, but since I was aware, and was listening carefully, I felt some of that openness was missing from pre resistor mod,, IOW we had changed out at least 20 original caps,, including the 2 big blue Philips on top of chassis, and the 2 under the chassis in the corners, (see video),, immediately I knew right off the 4 Philips voiced a *jadis muiscality* that the new Nichicon completely missed.
After that, I told him, still something is not right,, lets try to swap the Caron Composite to the new takman which we already ordered and sitting on his shelf,, yeah, tahts better,
So blind test?
Yeah I could tell a metal from a carbon, only after listening to 4 or 5 of my reference cds.
Its subtle, but detectable.
Look in any upgrade I've made past 8 months,, every one has been a *nuance* *subtle*,, as my tech guy in Baton Rouge liked to say *miniscule* (he and his cotech hold to the: If it ain't broke, why change it* philospohy)
As i see things post mods on all my components, : nuance here, tweak there, miniscule here, gain there = all adds up to ,,,,, a superior unit vs the stock version.
Thats all i'm after is :The Nuance gain.
btw i called Madisound about my new xovers , which Adam will take care of.
I shipped the Mi=undorf Silver Gold Supreme 10uf and the Mundorf Silvergold EVO oil 8.2uf, (little brothers to the Supremes) going in the tweet section,, I mentioned to Cindy, that 1 speaker was not voicing right,, She told me , before moving on to new xovers,, lets ck whats going on,, After I hung up,,I recked the Thors..sure enough Cindy was correct, not the xover, she said most likely the Millennium's voice coil needs changing, 1 Millennium has lost all lower fq;s,.. WOW thats going to make a substantial pop, just ordered 2 new voice coils.
Xovers are on schedule for next week, will have xovers outside the cabinet this time, and have 4 posts each side of xover for biwire,,
I picked up the pair of M Supreme SG for $230,, near 1/2 price on Ebay,, someone tech was selling for a customer who did not like the M Supremes on his speaker xover.
If the Zfoils' work out in DPL, I will replace some resistors in the Jadis Defy7 > Zfoil's.
More YT vids comming,, stay tuned....
Here is my system with one bad Millennium tweet.
Here are 2 vids showing off navships silverc copper interconnects and speaker cables,
Both made a significant nuance,, dang near a modification vs the radio shak interconnects and 12 ga pure copper THHN speaker wire.
Really not a small nuance, I'd say near a modification, that much of a gain in resolution.
NAVSHIPS SILVER COPPER IC's - YouTube
navships silver copper 12 ga speaker cables SUPER HIGH FIDELITY - YouTube
.
WEll had my tech NOT told me he swaped the Jadis metal to his(but he says it was mine,,but HIS suggestion) to Carbon composite,, yeah I *might have* missed being aware of a resistor change in the plates,, but since I was aware, and was listening carefully, I felt some of that openness was missing from pre resistor mod,, IOW we had changed out at least 20 original caps,, including the 2 big blue Philips on top of chassis, and the 2 under the chassis in the corners, (see video),, immediately I knew right off the 4 Philips voiced a *jadis muiscality* that the new Nichicon completely missed.
After that, I told him, still something is not right,, lets try to swap the Caron Composite to the new takman which we already ordered and sitting on his shelf,, yeah, tahts better,
So blind test?
Yeah I could tell a metal from a carbon, only after listening to 4 or 5 of my reference cds.
Its subtle, but detectable.
Look in any upgrade I've made past 8 months,, every one has been a *nuance* *subtle*,, as my tech guy in Baton Rouge liked to say *miniscule* (he and his cotech hold to the: If it ain't broke, why change it* philospohy)
As i see things post mods on all my components, : nuance here, tweak there, miniscule here, gain there = all adds up to ,,,,, a superior unit vs the stock version.
Thats all i'm after is :The Nuance gain.
btw i called Madisound about my new xovers , which Adam will take care of.
I shipped the Mi=undorf Silver Gold Supreme 10uf and the Mundorf Silvergold EVO oil 8.2uf, (little brothers to the Supremes) going in the tweet section,, I mentioned to Cindy, that 1 speaker was not voicing right,, She told me , before moving on to new xovers,, lets ck whats going on,, After I hung up,,I recked the Thors..sure enough Cindy was correct, not the xover, she said most likely the Millennium's voice coil needs changing, 1 Millennium has lost all lower fq;s,.. WOW thats going to make a substantial pop, just ordered 2 new voice coils.
Xovers are on schedule for next week, will have xovers outside the cabinet this time, and have 4 posts each side of xover for biwire,,
I picked up the pair of M Supreme SG for $230,, near 1/2 price on Ebay,, someone tech was selling for a customer who did not like the M Supremes on his speaker xover.
If the Zfoils' work out in DPL, I will replace some resistors in the Jadis Defy7 > Zfoil's.
More YT vids comming,, stay tuned....
Here is my system with one bad Millennium tweet.
Here are 2 vids showing off navships silverc copper interconnects and speaker cables,
Both made a significant nuance,, dang near a modification vs the radio shak interconnects and 12 ga pure copper THHN speaker wire.
Really not a small nuance, I'd say near a modification, that much of a gain in resolution.
NAVSHIPS SILVER COPPER IC's - YouTube
navships silver copper 12 ga speaker cables SUPER HIGH FIDELITY - YouTube
.
These old Philips caps were never champions at the frequency extremes but have a marvelously natural midrange, which modern caps seem to lack. Some correlate this with low ESR; i honestly have no idea.
Luckily, some of the old caps are still available as NOS and after careful reforming many can be brought up to the original specs. Similar tonally, with an even better midrange than the Philips are the French SIC-SAFCO, although many of those lack a decent bass.
My clone JC-2 line preamp came with those (RFE) French capacitors in the power supply.
They needed a lot of burn-in, but now seem reasonably transparent.
Electrolytic capacitor "sound" does not seem to be due to ESR. I've done some tests
using the DUT capacitor paralleled with a low impedance Zener, and the capacitor is
still quite easily audible, and definitely not in a good way.
They needed a lot of burn-in, but now seem reasonably transparent.
Electrolytic capacitor "sound" does not seem to be due to ESR. I've done some tests
using the DUT capacitor paralleled with a low impedance Zener, and the capacitor is
still quite easily audible, and definitely not in a good way.
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Dear Mozart, I saw the first video...
if that is your system, then I believe that it will be very difficult for you to judge the correct nuances without a proper antivibration system.
I would suggest you to invest on a serious table (eg. Finite Elemente) and feet isolators (eg Pyon Sound, shun mook, still points or synergetic research) before to invest much on cap and resistors upgrade.
Of course, that is just based on my own experience.
Best!
Tino
if that is your system, then I believe that it will be very difficult for you to judge the correct nuances without a proper antivibration system.
I would suggest you to invest on a serious table (eg. Finite Elemente) and feet isolators (eg Pyon Sound, shun mook, still points or synergetic research) before to invest much on cap and resistors upgrade.
Of course, that is just based on my own experience.
Best!
Tino
I agree in principle but as an owner of a Master Reference i cannot really recommend it. In my case it took a serious effort to make it reasonably acceptable and get rid of its very annoying midrange sound. It is still kills dynamics.
Perhaps the CF shelves improve it a bit.
These old Philips caps were never champions at the frequency extremes but have a marvelously natural midrange
I would tend to agree, as the highs are slightly rolled off,
also bass is OK, but when i installed the 12 Mundorf Supreme SG ($45 each) and F&T's ,
the bass response is rock solid.
the 2 W18 (5 1/2 inch actual form edge to edge connes) really deliver ~~Slam~~,, well a 5.5 inch slam,, not say a Sacn Speak Revelator style superslam.
But all the bass i could ever wish for.
Yes the Philips had to go back in, critical component.
My tech geek believes F&T's are made by Mundorf, as gold print is identical.
1st i ordered the smaller brothers to the Supremes, the white body EVO oil silvergold($30 each),, then I wrote warren back, to cancel and give me the Supremes..I figure its a 1 time upgrade, and the Defy well deserves the Supremes.
Also I have takman Metal in series? or parallel? can't recall, they are taped up, I think he said they are like corn cob stack... maybe i will replace those with Zfoil's...but not until I 1st hear the zfoils in the DPL.
I will take the Defy to Richard Grey and let him look over the other techs install of the resistors, see if we can get some zfoils in there,, can't recall the name of that part of the circuit.
Ok just ck the vid, called ~~plate resistors~~ The tech guy had installed a single 3 watt carbon composite, (Not carbon film) as per his idea, but says ~~you agreed OK~~, anyway,, I'm thinking if the zfoils work out in the DPL, I will have Richrad Grey see if we can go with zfoils in the Defy.
If not, I'll keep the Takman metal where they are, and continue changing all other old resistors.
There must be another 20 or so scattered across the board.
Thing is, we did not pull the board, we sniped N soldered in place,, Not sure if Richard is willing to go the quick and easy route,,He likes things perfect,,and may want to pull ~~the pain in the rear~~ board off.
Thats extra time /labor/$$. I'd rather snip and solder lead to lead.
Go to minute 10:32 to see stacked resistors,, These takman sound real close to Jadis' original metal. maybe a bit more forward in the midrange = I think the original jadis resistors ~~might~~ be cleaner/more quiet.
Hard to verify, as I had employed so many new upgardes,,, new interconnects , new speaker cables (both from navships ebay site 12 ga silver copper Hubble Space craft wire), ,, IOW the Jadis resistors were less forward due to Radio Shak copper 2 cent interconnects and the 12 ga THHN copper stranded Home Depot speaker cables..
the Silver copper speaker and silver copper interconnects, really brought out the midarnge, bass and highs ~~considerably.
I'm no snakeoils saleman, I am telling you guys what I heard.
This Defy now is super dead quiet and , just 1/4 , not even 1/3 of the gain on the pre amp, either the jadis clone (up for sale) or the Jadis DPL, either pre 1/4th gain, fills the 10X12 room with soundstage LIVE music.
and thats with 1 Millennium tweet diaphram blown(only tinny highs come through)!!!
So have alottt more upcomming ~~upgrades~~ (in my vid I incorrectly say *mods*, which is incorrect) in the next few weeks, will post new vids as upgrades happen.
'Stay tuned
go to 10:32 to see corn cob stacked resistors, Takman Metal
JADIS DEFY7 Mods Completed - YouTube
I would tend to agree, as the highs are slightly rolled off,
also bass is OK, but when i installed the 12 Mundorf Supreme SG ($45 each) and F&T's ,
the bass response is rock solid.
the 2 W18 (5 1/2 inch actual form edge to edge connes) really deliver ~~Slam~~,, well a 5.5 inch slam,, not say a Sacn Speak Revelator style superslam.
But all the bass i could ever wish for.
Yes the Philips had to go back in, critical component.
My tech geek believes F&T's are made by Mundorf, as gold print is identical.
1st i ordered the smaller brothers to the Supremes, the white body EVO oil silvergold($30 each),, then I wrote warren back, to cancel and give me the Supremes..I figure its a 1 time upgrade, and the Defy well deserves the Supremes.
Also I have takman Metal in series? or parallel? can't recall, they are taped up, I think he said they are like corn cob stack... maybe i will replace those with Zfoil's...but not until I 1st hear the zfoils in the DPL.
I will take the Defy to Richard Grey and let him look over the other techs install of the resistors, see if we can get some zfoils in there,, can't recall the name of that part of the circuit.
Ok just ck the vid, called ~~plate resistors~~ The tech guy had installed a single 3 watt carbon composite, (Not carbon film) as per his idea, but says ~~you agreed OK~~, anyway,, I'm thinking if the zfoils work out in the DPL, I will have Richrad Grey see if we can go with zfoils in the Defy.
If not, I'll keep the Takman metal where they are, and continue changing all other old resistors.
There must be another 20 or so scattered across the board.
Thing is, we did not pull the board, we sniped N soldered in place,, Not sure if Richard is willing to go the quick and easy route,,He likes things perfect,,and may want to pull ~~the pain in the rear~~ board off.
Thats extra time /labor/$$. I'd rather snip and solder lead to lead.
Go to minute 10:32 to see stacked resistors,, These takman sound real close to Jadis' original metal. maybe a bit more forward in the midrange = I think the original jadis resistors ~~might~~ be cleaner/more quiet.
Hard to verify, as I had employed so many new upgardes,,, new interconnects , new speaker cables (both from navships ebay site 12 ga silver copper Hubble Space craft wire), ,, IOW the Jadis resistors were less forward due to Radio Shak copper 2 cent interconnects and the 12 ga THHN copper stranded Home Depot speaker cables..
the Silver copper speaker and silver copper interconnects, really brought out the midarnge, bass and highs ~~considerably.
I'm no snakeoils saleman, I am telling you guys what I heard.
This Defy now is super dead quiet and , just 1/4 , not even 1/3 of the gain on the pre amp, either the jadis clone (up for sale) or the Jadis DPL, either pre 1/4th gain, fills the 10X12 room with soundstage LIVE music.
and thats with 1 Millennium tweet diaphram blown(only tinny highs come through)!!!
So have alottt more upcomming ~~upgrades~~ (in my vid I incorrectly say *mods*, which is incorrect) in the next few weeks, will post new vids as upgrades happen.
'Stay tuned
go to 10:32 to see corn cob stacked resistors, Takman Metal
JADIS DEFY7 Mods Completed - YouTube
That is the beginning of an amusing legend
It is widely known that some of Mundorf's caps are made by F&T, which, when you consider that F&T is a major capacitor manufacturer makes more sense than the opposite.
Dear analog_sa,
maybe the FE Master Reference is not the best choice, but do you have other suggestions? the actual table used by Mozart is probably filtering away most of the sound difference due to to cap and resistors upgrades...
However, if you will thrown away your Finite Element table, just let me know, before they will burn it!
Tino
maybe the FE Master Reference is not the best choice, but do you have other suggestions? the actual table used by Mozart is probably filtering away most of the sound difference due to to cap and resistors upgrades...
However, if you will thrown away your Finite Element table, just let me know, before they will burn it!
Tino
Just left Richard GrAy's (with an A, not E), shop,, having the Seas Thor speakers rewired for madisound's new xovers, after 17 yrs, with Hovland caps,, and Richard actually did the xover soldering some 17 yrs ago,,now he's back at it once again,, employing navships silvercopper 20 ga,,
,,going with big bad Mundorf Silvergold Suprem 10uf + M silvergold EVO Oil 8.2 uf for the Millennium..and having the Millenniums diaphrams replaced ,as the form surround dis-intergrated causing 1 tweet to lose fq range,,,, ,,anyway,, then Richard moved to the Jadis DPL sitting on his table,, sees some things you guys had mentioned in the design. ,,Like i left his shop 1 hour ago,,and now wrote saying he did this, this, and that,, wowow,, he works fast.
Took the 12AX7 out and put in a design for a 12AU7,, as I mentioned,, when i turned the gain vol , just a tad,,maybe 1/4 turn,, already had huge db gain, = loud, but not much fq resolution,, He took out the 2 .47 caps next to the 12AX7 and also changed some resistor values,, He found some issues in other places,,,Bleeding resistors, ,, poor connections , etc etc,,
Richard is like a wizard, working magic in less than 1 hour.
1st i have to recone 2 midwoofers, surround just ordered, I will do the replacement myself, its easy.
After we get things Up N rnning, we will move on to a resistor shootout.
Look for that YT vid in about 3 weeks.
lets see what the Thors have to offer, And yes I will employ the highly respected Zfoils.. Lets see if they are hyped, or *The real deal*.
,,going with big bad Mundorf Silvergold Suprem 10uf + M silvergold EVO Oil 8.2 uf for the Millennium..and having the Millenniums diaphrams replaced ,as the form surround dis-intergrated causing 1 tweet to lose fq range,,,, ,,anyway,, then Richard moved to the Jadis DPL sitting on his table,, sees some things you guys had mentioned in the design. ,,Like i left his shop 1 hour ago,,and now wrote saying he did this, this, and that,, wowow,, he works fast.
Took the 12AX7 out and put in a design for a 12AU7,, as I mentioned,, when i turned the gain vol , just a tad,,maybe 1/4 turn,, already had huge db gain, = loud, but not much fq resolution,, He took out the 2 .47 caps next to the 12AX7 and also changed some resistor values,, He found some issues in other places,,,Bleeding resistors, ,, poor connections , etc etc,,
Richard is like a wizard, working magic in less than 1 hour.
1st i have to recone 2 midwoofers, surround just ordered, I will do the replacement myself, its easy.
After we get things Up N rnning, we will move on to a resistor shootout.
Look for that YT vid in about 3 weeks.
lets see what the Thors have to offer, And yes I will employ the highly respected Zfoils.. Lets see if they are hyped, or *The real deal*.
The Vishay;s Zfoils were a complete disaster, cost me $550, and made sonics flat, very compressed.
Completly annihilated all the wonderful things the Mundorf Silver Supreme caps in my system, amp, linestage, cd player, Seas Thor xovers all had various levels of Mundorf Silver/Supreme caps.. The Vishay's flatted the sound like a steamroller.
Vishays IMHO are for industrial use , not audio.
Completly annihilated all the wonderful things the Mundorf Silver Supreme caps in my system, amp, linestage, cd player, Seas Thor xovers all had various levels of Mundorf Silver/Supreme caps.. The Vishay's flatted the sound like a steamroller.
Vishays IMHO are for industrial use , not audio.
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