I've thought about adding a second driver (and a tweeter) for added power handling so it can play more comfortably in a slightly larger room. I've read a thread a month ago someone asking the same question about doubling drivers in an MLTL. One reply said to use 2 vents or the single vent equivalent. Is doubling the vent's CSA equivalent to using 2 vents? I've tried a hypothetical design of a BR in WinISD; doubling of CSA and doubling the Vb, and the tuning goes lower slightly by a few Hz. I'm not sure what 2 ports translates to but IINM 2 ports (each having the same CSA as with one vent) would require a different length (longer?) for the same tuning...or am I mistaken?
Hi Mr.Johannesen.
I began my Tabaq build for 3" drivers recently. The panels are cut and I've begun glueing them. I'm using Fountek FE87 3" drivers in the Tabaq. The T/S parameters are quite similar to the T/S parameters of the TB W3-315SC that you used originally.
I have a few doubts that I would like you to help me with, if you will please.
1) In your design you kept the pipe CSA at 4 times Sd and the vent area at half Sd. However the Founteks I'm using have Sd of 27.34 cm^2. So that makes the pipe CSA @ 4.68 times and the vent area @ 0.58 times.
Do I need to reduce the pipe CSA by lining the cabinet walls with felt or other material and by reducing the vent area in the same manner that xrk971 did for the Tabaque, or should I simply increase the stuffing? What do I have to do about the vent area?
2) These Fountek drivers have very large magnet shields with protruding terminal tabs and front-mounting them is a real pain. Is it alright to rear-mount them with a sub baffle? I read about this method in another thread of this Forum where a forum member had planned to use the same Fountek drivers and he was advised to rear-mount them using sub baffles.
3) Do I have to use a BSC with this build? If so, should I use the recommended values or modify them?
I began my Tabaq build for 3" drivers recently. The panels are cut and I've begun glueing them. I'm using Fountek FE87 3" drivers in the Tabaq. The T/S parameters are quite similar to the T/S parameters of the TB W3-315SC that you used originally.
I have a few doubts that I would like you to help me with, if you will please.
1) In your design you kept the pipe CSA at 4 times Sd and the vent area at half Sd. However the Founteks I'm using have Sd of 27.34 cm^2. So that makes the pipe CSA @ 4.68 times and the vent area @ 0.58 times.
Do I need to reduce the pipe CSA by lining the cabinet walls with felt or other material and by reducing the vent area in the same manner that xrk971 did for the Tabaque, or should I simply increase the stuffing? What do I have to do about the vent area?
2) These Fountek drivers have very large magnet shields with protruding terminal tabs and front-mounting them is a real pain. Is it alright to rear-mount them with a sub baffle? I read about this method in another thread of this Forum where a forum member had planned to use the same Fountek drivers and he was advised to rear-mount them using sub baffles.
3) Do I have to use a BSC with this build? If so, should I use the recommended values or modify them?
Hi
Use the original measurements for the enclosure. Sd is just used by MJK´s models. It is much easier than changing the cross section area every time you do a simulation.
Place the driver 5 cm higher up than shown in the original drawing.
I think your method of mounting the driver is OK. However, I have not tried this.
The BSC will be the same. Please note, many builders dont use the filter. It depends on your personal preference, the room, where the speaker is placed, distance to the listening position. I would suggest you put these outside the cabinet, then it is easy for you to see if you like the sound better with or without the BSC. From the plot of this driver, I would expect the filter would make a more balanced sound.
Have fun, I am pretty sure this driver will do well in TABAQ.
Bjørn
Use the original measurements for the enclosure. Sd is just used by MJK´s models. It is much easier than changing the cross section area every time you do a simulation.
Place the driver 5 cm higher up than shown in the original drawing.
I think your method of mounting the driver is OK. However, I have not tried this.
The BSC will be the same. Please note, many builders dont use the filter. It depends on your personal preference, the room, where the speaker is placed, distance to the listening position. I would suggest you put these outside the cabinet, then it is easy for you to see if you like the sound better with or without the BSC. From the plot of this driver, I would expect the filter would make a more balanced sound.
Have fun, I am pretty sure this driver will do well in TABAQ.
Bjørn
Thanks for the clarifications, Mr.Johanessen. 
Actually I was about to begin the stuffing in the first cabinet when the doubts about the Sd cross-section cropped up. I had already cut the speaker holes in the raised position so that's not a problem!
I'll get back when I complete the build and share my hearing impressions, though that'll take some time as I'm going slow on this project.
Actually I was about to begin the stuffing in the first cabinet when the doubts about the Sd cross-section cropped up. I had already cut the speaker holes in the raised position so that's not a problem!
I'll get back when I complete the build and share my hearing impressions, though that'll take some time as I'm going slow on this project.
I can vaguely recollect some on and off conversations on the new driver position but to read the 100 odd pages of the thread all over again....!
Perhaps Mr.Johannesen can shed some light on the subject?
TABAQ W1611
This relates to threads a while back dealing with TABAQs. I posted that I was making a pair using Tang Band W5-1611SA and would post pics on completion. Here they are.
They use the Conical Horn design by Roland Breteler in Holland (see crafty.nl) and are free source. I've paired them with my wonderful Cayin TA-30 valve amplifier but sometimes I switch to the Audiolab 8000 in the shelf below the Cayin. Both drive them well, but the valves win.
House management decreed that they should be unobtrusive hence the white, which doesn't look bad. It's just rollered white matt paint over sealed MDF.
They are definitely worth the effort: human voice is great, likewise jazz. Even Sky radio sounds good.
This relates to threads a while back dealing with TABAQs. I posted that I was making a pair using Tang Band W5-1611SA and would post pics on completion. Here they are.
They use the Conical Horn design by Roland Breteler in Holland (see crafty.nl) and are free source. I've paired them with my wonderful Cayin TA-30 valve amplifier but sometimes I switch to the Audiolab 8000 in the shelf below the Cayin. Both drive them well, but the valves win.
House management decreed that they should be unobtrusive hence the white, which doesn't look bad. It's just rollered white matt paint over sealed MDF.
They are definitely worth the effort: human voice is great, likewise jazz. Even Sky radio sounds good.
Attachments
Hi
I got many comments about the driver not being in ear hight. The folded version could be used as a front speaker in a surround set up, laying down. I therefore did some more sims, and there is no - or very very little - changes in the sound my using the new placement of the driver.
The driver can be placed 5 cm higher up than shown in the original drawing, and the driver can be placed in the centre of the baffle in folded version.
Hi
Bjørn
I got many comments about the driver not being in ear hight. The folded version could be used as a front speaker in a surround set up, laying down. I therefore did some more sims, and there is no - or very very little - changes in the sound my using the new placement of the driver.
The driver can be placed 5 cm higher up than shown in the original drawing, and the driver can be placed in the centre of the baffle in folded version.
Hi
Bjørn
They look good.
I used to have an Audiolab 8000 as well. not the warmest, but precise and detailed. I miss it... gave it to my kid brother!
Thanks Bjørn! A five-TABAQ surround system would look and sound good!
I'm actually considering using the TABAQ towers I built for surround duty.
Here's a quick recording of the TABAQ I built, with the local taiwanese drivers. There are 3 excerpts of songs from Dire Straits, Eagles and Jessie Cook.
There is no EQ, the TABAQ are placed on the wall, 1.8m apart. The mic (a Blue Yeti microphone) is placed in an equilateral triangle, at 1.8m from each speakers. I set it up as a stereo mic.
I am using an old ipod to play plain mp3 files connected to an old Usher amp. nothing fancy here!
The room has bass treatments higher up in the corners, so actually more bass, and too much in this recording, since not a lot of cancellations happening.
They would benefit some EQ, but this is as RAW as possible to give a taste of what could be achieved.
Did I mention I amazed at the possibilities?
https://soundcloud.com/perceval-1/tabaq
There is no EQ, the TABAQ are placed on the wall, 1.8m apart. The mic (a Blue Yeti microphone) is placed in an equilateral triangle, at 1.8m from each speakers. I set it up as a stereo mic.
I am using an old ipod to play plain mp3 files connected to an old Usher amp. nothing fancy here!
The room has bass treatments higher up in the corners, so actually more bass, and too much in this recording, since not a lot of cancellations happening.
They would benefit some EQ, but this is as RAW as possible to give a taste of what could be achieved.
Did I mention I amazed at the possibilities?
https://soundcloud.com/perceval-1/tabaq
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Now we're getting there.
Here's another track, this time with EQ to balance it all out and taking the room in perspective.
I must say, these things impress me more and more every time I hook them up!
I guess I am getting as close as these little speakers can give me.
Again, Yeti mic, set in stereo mode.
Excerpts from tracks include Sultans of Swing, Spanish Rose, Go Your Own Way, Keith Don't Go.
https://soundcloud.com/perceval-1/tabaq-with-eq
Here's another track, this time with EQ to balance it all out and taking the room in perspective.
I must say, these things impress me more and more every time I hook them up!
I guess I am getting as close as these little speakers can give me.
Again, Yeti mic, set in stereo mode.
Excerpts from tracks include Sultans of Swing, Spanish Rose, Go Your Own Way, Keith Don't Go.
https://soundcloud.com/perceval-1/tabaq-with-eq
Yep, it's in the recording...
Here's the same version, from youtube, from the CD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKkeWt2MxWM&list=PLFhmag5AlajAlwh63kTZUmqWgRJ-U6-rw
Here's the same version, from youtube, from the CD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKkeWt2MxWM&list=PLFhmag5AlajAlwh63kTZUmqWgRJ-U6-rw
I am currently building this speaker using the W3-315E driver according to the internal dimensions in this file
http://coolcat.dk/bjoern/TABAQ_TL_for_TB.pdf
The only difference is that I am using 15 mm plywood instead of 12mm MDF, but my board dimensions are adjusted to keep the internal dimensions exactly the same. After cutting a hole for the driver I noticed that there isn't much room to chamfer the hole.
Are the driver holes typically chamfered for a TABAQ construction? Does it make a big difference if they are not chamfered?
http://coolcat.dk/bjoern/TABAQ_TL_for_TB.pdf
The only difference is that I am using 15 mm plywood instead of 12mm MDF, but my board dimensions are adjusted to keep the internal dimensions exactly the same. After cutting a hole for the driver I noticed that there isn't much room to chamfer the hole.
Are the driver holes typically chamfered for a TABAQ construction? Does it make a big difference if they are not chamfered?