Also they have fast shipping. Today I've got the drivers. I like the look of theses.
Now I have to hunt down the plywood. It seems as hard as getting the drivers nowadays. No problem, I am not in a hurry.
I don't know that I'm understanding what the correct plans for the Tang Band W3-2141 modified enclosure are. Can someone confirm these for me(pdf attached)? I didn't understand which of the two drawings in the 2020 update pdf I was supposed to apply these changes to or if I applied them correctly.
@Chris_001 welcome to the forum. Well done for doing some homework and drawing up great plans. We will have to revise some of your measurements.
Thank you for pointing to Bjorn’s post with the adjusted changes and sim for the W3-2141 driver. I missed this completely since it was posted in a different thread. I will have to update my Index document in Post #1 to include this for the W3-2141 driver.
To answer your question. The post and changes you referred to was posted by Bjorn in 2015, many years before the 2020 updated plans were posted. In other words – Bjorn’s proposed changes referred to the original Tabaq plans, as described in his document “The First Version TABAQ Story”.
Original TABAQ:
Internal Line Length = 260+520 = 780mm
Port Length = 130mm
Driver distance from the closed end = 260mm
Proposed changes for the W3-2141 driver:
Internal Line Length = Original 780mm + 3” = 780 + 76.2 = 856mm
Port Length = 5” = 127mm
Driver distance from the closed end = 9” = 229mm
Hope it makes sense, but please post your updated plans with the new dimensions and we look forward to your build.
Thank you for pointing to Bjorn’s post with the adjusted changes and sim for the W3-2141 driver. I missed this completely since it was posted in a different thread. I will have to update my Index document in Post #1 to include this for the W3-2141 driver.
To answer your question. The post and changes you referred to was posted by Bjorn in 2015, many years before the 2020 updated plans were posted. In other words – Bjorn’s proposed changes referred to the original Tabaq plans, as described in his document “The First Version TABAQ Story”.
Original TABAQ:
Internal Line Length = 260+520 = 780mm
Port Length = 130mm
Driver distance from the closed end = 260mm
Proposed changes for the W3-2141 driver:
Internal Line Length = Original 780mm + 3” = 780 + 76.2 = 856mm
Port Length = 5” = 127mm
Driver distance from the closed end = 9” = 229mm
Hope it makes sense, but please post your updated plans with the new dimensions and we look forward to your build.
Last edited:
Hang on – I was a bit too quick on the trigger. Bjorn played around with different simulations for the W3-2141 after the post (simulation and proposed changes) referred to above. See post #2990 with four different simulations. He recommends the last simulation “Standard TABAQ with reduced volume”.
The Standard TABAQ (Update 2) has the following dimensions:
Internal Line Length = 780mm
Port Length = 97mm
CSA = 128cm2
Driver distance from the top = 203mm
Recommended Standard TABAQ with reduced volume for W3-2141 (Post #2990):
Internal Line Length = 780mm
Port Length = 97mm
CSA = 96cm2
Driver distance from the top = 203mm
Stuffing = 75 gram
To achieve the new 96cm2 CSA (Cross sectional area) it means you have to keep the internal width at 100mm but reduce the depth from 128mm to 96mm.
Hope you are not too confused. Ask if you are not sure or have any questions.
The Standard TABAQ (Update 2) has the following dimensions:
Internal Line Length = 780mm
Port Length = 97mm
CSA = 128cm2
Driver distance from the top = 203mm
Recommended Standard TABAQ with reduced volume for W3-2141 (Post #2990):
Internal Line Length = 780mm
Port Length = 97mm
CSA = 96cm2
Driver distance from the top = 203mm
Stuffing = 75 gram
To achieve the new 96cm2 CSA (Cross sectional area) it means you have to keep the internal width at 100mm but reduce the depth from 128mm to 96mm.
Hope you are not too confused. Ask if you are not sure or have any questions.
He shows the original cabinet simulation along with two cabinet mods and one stuffing mod, correct? I can draw up both cabinets modifications. Not sure which one I'll go with. I may want the extra bass. What might the negative consequences of the lower tuning be?
Ok Chris, you are almost there for the recommended Standard TABAQ with reduced volume dimensions. Yes, the bottom port measurement must be changed to 85mm. Then you will have the correct port length, internal line length, internal width, internal depth, and stuffing. However, you are not applying the driver distance from the top (closed end) correctly. This distance (203mm) must be measured from the top to the centre (not the edge) of the driver.
Where your Internal line length currently is 203mm + 75mm + 502mm, this should be changed to 166mm + 75mm + 539mm. Then your driver centre will be 166mm + 37.5mm = 203.5mm from the top which is close enough.
If you are not planning to use a subwoofer to assist your TABAQs with the bottom end, I would also be tempted to use the lower tuned option (the link you first pointed to). Even if you don’t plan to use a sub, but have the ability to EQ I’d also go for the lower tuned option.
Btw, Bjorn uses a very nice MLTL designed subwoofer with his TABAQs. Building a subwoofer like this is on my bucket list. You can find the details here:
https://audioxpress.com/article/hideaway-tl-sub-revisited
Where your Internal line length currently is 203mm + 75mm + 502mm, this should be changed to 166mm + 75mm + 539mm. Then your driver centre will be 166mm + 37.5mm = 203.5mm from the top which is close enough.
If you are not planning to use a subwoofer to assist your TABAQs with the bottom end, I would also be tempted to use the lower tuned option (the link you first pointed to). Even if you don’t plan to use a sub, but have the ability to EQ I’d also go for the lower tuned option.
Btw, Bjorn uses a very nice MLTL designed subwoofer with his TABAQs. Building a subwoofer like this is on my bucket list. You can find the details here:
https://audioxpress.com/article/hideaway-tl-sub-revisited
Thanks for the link on the sub. I hadn't seen it yet. I don't plan on using a sub with this particular pair I am building, but I may do more of these with possibly different drivers for some friends and family where a sub would be used.
I think this drawing should be complete. I am going to draw up the extended bass version next and will put both in one pdf after it is correct.
I think this drawing should be complete. I am going to draw up the extended bass version next and will put both in one pdf after it is correct.
Chris, for the W3-2141 Lower Tuning cabinet dimensions and to “get the max out of this nice driver” according to Bjorn, he suggests:
• Internal length of the line extended 3 inches (internal).
• Port length 5 inch.
• Driver 9 inch from closed end.
• Stuffing 80 gram in the upper 2/3.
I would propose the following changes to your cabinet plans:
Internal Line length = 780mm (Original TABAQ) + 76mm (3”) = 856mm.
The Driver distance from closed end = 228.5mm (9”).
Internal dimensions from the top = 191mm + 75mm + 590mm = 856mm, and the driver center will be 228.5mm from the top.
Port length (127mm) dimensions are correct.
Stuffing = 80 Grams.
Hope my calculations are correct. Please double check.
• Internal length of the line extended 3 inches (internal).
• Port length 5 inch.
• Driver 9 inch from closed end.
• Stuffing 80 gram in the upper 2/3.
I would propose the following changes to your cabinet plans:
Internal Line length = 780mm (Original TABAQ) + 76mm (3”) = 856mm.
The Driver distance from closed end = 228.5mm (9”).
Internal dimensions from the top = 191mm + 75mm + 590mm = 856mm, and the driver center will be 228.5mm from the top.
Port length (127mm) dimensions are correct.
Stuffing = 80 Grams.
Hope my calculations are correct. Please double check.
I based my drawing for the lower tuning on the instructions in the W3 2141 pdf that was in Bjorn's post that you pointed me to earlier and ignored the previous instructions that I had found. I'm looking back through all the documents I've collected and I'm not really sure what is correct. I'll keep digging to see if I can find anything I missed. Maybe @Bjohannesen will see this and comment on my drawings.
I see what you mean. I worked according to Bjorn’s post and enclosure recommendations in the other thread. Comparing the two simulations (different posts in different threads) for the lower tuned enclosure, they look exactly the same to me. The only obvious difference is in the stuffing (80g vs 100g) and there is a lack of clarity regarding the driver distance from the closed end.
My opinion is that the stuffing recommendations are rough guidelines and might require adjustments and experimentation to find what works best in your situation and room, maybe starting at 80g. Regarding the driver distance from the closed end – the original TABAQ enclosures had the driver 260mm from the top. This was later revised (after Bjorn’s first recommendation for the W3-2141 lower tuned enclosure) and shortened to 203mm without ill effect on the sound. This shorter distance only improves the esthetics of the speaker. Again, my opinion is that this is not too critical and you can keep this distance at 203mm as is on your current plans.
My opinion is that the stuffing recommendations are rough guidelines and might require adjustments and experimentation to find what works best in your situation and room, maybe starting at 80g. Regarding the driver distance from the closed end – the original TABAQ enclosures had the driver 260mm from the top. This was later revised (after Bjorn’s first recommendation for the W3-2141 lower tuned enclosure) and shortened to 203mm without ill effect on the sound. This shorter distance only improves the esthetics of the speaker. Again, my opinion is that this is not too critical and you can keep this distance at 203mm as is on your current plans.
Yes, stuffing is guidelines. I have tested a lot, and I keep the 100g for 3" drivers and about the half for 4" drivers as they have a lower Qts.
The "confusion" regarding the physical enclosure is that I made a short cut when I build the first TABAQ (which i still use today). The physical layout was not 100% according to the simulation. Therefore the tuning will be about 5 Hz lower than the simulation. For the 4 inch drivers this is OK, as the Fs of the driver is lower compared to the 3 inch ones.
Regards
Bjørn
The "confusion" regarding the physical enclosure is that I made a short cut when I build the first TABAQ (which i still use today). The physical layout was not 100% according to the simulation. Therefore the tuning will be about 5 Hz lower than the simulation. For the 4 inch drivers this is OK, as the Fs of the driver is lower compared to the 3 inch ones.
Regards
Bjørn