BTW on bazzee i saw a lot of stuff from Rave. anyone from delhi know what this stuff is like. some of the AV stuff looks like a cross between Energy and Pro Fx. opinions on sound, fit, and finish. what drivers do theyuse? I suspect they are from china.
dont get me wrong. china is not a 5 letter word anymore so i would respect the stuff they make only i worry if they are not dumping leftovers, outof spec stuff into India.
Like japan (another 5 letter word) in the 50s, or korea (still another 5 letter word) in the 70s china is moving up the value scale (my HP laptop, and my wife's Sony Vaio are both made there). If you look closely the only major 5 letter word in Asia that has not "moved up" yet is India.
anyone have access to this china stuff for DIY?
dont get me wrong. china is not a 5 letter word anymore so i would respect the stuff they make only i worry if they are not dumping leftovers, outof spec stuff into India.
Like japan (another 5 letter word) in the 50s, or korea (still another 5 letter word) in the 70s china is moving up the value scale (my HP laptop, and my wife's Sony Vaio are both made there). If you look closely the only major 5 letter word in Asia that has not "moved up" yet is India.
anyone have access to this china stuff for DIY?
Re: Re: Hi...
And in the Vifa range, if we can get the P13WH-00-08 midrange, it'd be great. I just have this wish to try this midrange after reading the effusive praise Lynn Olson lavishes on it in his Ariel project notes. This driver is not even very expensive (USD 36.60/ea on Madisound).
Hope this makes sense. 🙂
Tarun
Since you mention Bose-type full ranges, and Angshu too says that those 2" drivers are really good (provided you know their limits), do you know of these guys (in the US, unfortunately) who are selling those drivers at USD 35.00 a pair? At that price, and given what I've heard about them, even I'd be interested, but I'd probably have to think of a high-pass not lower than 400-500 Hz. So I'll need to mate them not with a subwoofer but a proper mid-woofer, of good enough quality to handle voices (i.e. go up to 400-500Hz, voice territory). Angshu, what do you think? I'm sure if we use those Bose 2-inchers, mate them with other good drivers, we'll get speakers about fifty times better than the Acoustimasses. 😀 In fact, those 2-inchers, coupled with perhaps a good 8" mid-bass, may be a pretty good combo... add a tweeter for the highs (higher than, say, 8K), if you want to. Sounds interesting on paper... 🙂navin said:
Going by comments of TB veterans here, it appears the new 3" W3-871s is what they are swearing by. I'd love to try a pair... they're quite affordable (USD 10.00 each from Nuera).
And in the Vifa range, if we can get the P13WH-00-08 midrange, it'd be great. I just have this wish to try this midrange after reading the effusive praise Lynn Olson lavishes on it in his Ariel project notes. This driver is not even very expensive (USD 36.60/ea on Madisound).
Which brand of driver is this? I've read your past posts but I've gotten confused about the brands this gentleman deals in.
Aha. My thoughts exactly, till I corresponded with Variac and Angshu, and got better clarity. My current understanding:
- Try the WPU1505 (15") and WPU1205 (12") if you want lower Qts. Variac uses the 1505 for his modded Basszilla. This has Qts low enough to give you a reasonable f3 even in a (large) sealed box. Then add a Linkwitz Transform... 🙂
- Even the others, e.g. 12PW3, etc, with low quoted Xmax, apparently are enormously loud with a reasonable amp, thanks to high efficiency and high max Xmax (9.5mm before physical damage.) A 12" with that sort of Xmax will burst your eardrums for domestic listening. However, if you want to go real subwoofer territory, looking for trouser-flapping 16Hz and 18Hz, then these drivers may not be the right ones. Go grab some Eminence Delta Pro from Parts Express then. 🙂
- Pro woofer makers quote low Xmax because they want to quote the Xmax where distortion is low. Apparently, the domestic woofer makers (for home and car) quote higher Xmax typically because they don't mind working at higher distortion. If you're willing to tolerate those higher distortion levels, then even the pro woofers will give you good Xmax. So say others who have dealt with these beasts.
Sounds good. Angshu has made a great two-way with precisely these 6.5" mid-bass units and (IIRC) Peerless domes. Active xo, biamped. Sounds great, he says.
No substitute for monsters to get good low distortion bass, I'm told?
Probably some confusion here. I have only mentioned Peerless domes. They are freely available ex-stock at Chowdhury Trading. Two models, both fabric dome: 40W and 60W. Angshu has used the 60W, and likes it. I've used both, but in a low-end box where I couldn't make out any differences and didn't expect to either. The 60W one has higher sensitivity; I'd go for it. Price diff is marginal.
Hope this makes sense. 🙂
Tarun
OT: Thought I'd add a little perspective on China - I have a friend who's an importer of computer peripherals from China. He specifies the design and the suppliers manufacture and fabricate according to spec.
The state of manufacturing in China is world-class. The problem is the Indian specifications. Since a lot of stuff around here is being manufactured to price, the product quality really takes a beating.
An example: some of the so-called 'Home-theatre' systems on the market today in India have sats driven by 2.5 RMS power and a 20 or 25-watt sub. My friend imports systems with a lot more power (can't disclose for confidentiality reasons, suffice it to say overture chips are used throughout, for a model whose end price is around 7 grand).
During coversations it is clear that China's manufacturing is not the problem anymore - it is the specification that is. My new Tungsten palmtop is made there, as is my very nice NAD 521 CD player.
Back to topic, navin, let us know what is happening. Will be interesting to get my grubby hands on some really good drivers.
The state of manufacturing in China is world-class. The problem is the Indian specifications. Since a lot of stuff around here is being manufactured to price, the product quality really takes a beating.
An example: some of the so-called 'Home-theatre' systems on the market today in India have sats driven by 2.5 RMS power and a 20 or 25-watt sub. My friend imports systems with a lot more power (can't disclose for confidentiality reasons, suffice it to say overture chips are used throughout, for a model whose end price is around 7 grand).
During coversations it is clear that China's manufacturing is not the problem anymore - it is the specification that is. My new Tungsten palmtop is made there, as is my very nice NAD 521 CD player.
Back to topic, navin, let us know what is happening. Will be interesting to get my grubby hands on some really good drivers.
[OT] Eminence spec sheets..???
I looked at the spec sheets for the Delta Pro and Deltalite Pro drivers.
Me thoroughly confused.
Tarun
Thinking about your comments, and browsing the PartsExpress Eminence pages, I was surprised to find that the Eminence PDF spec sheets linked from those pages don't carry distortion specs, even for the pro models. (Selenium woofer specs always mention distortion with Xmax.) And I was stunned to see that the Eminence spec sheets don't have a frequency response graph. How does one study a driver's specs without this? And this is the spec sheet that PartsExpress gives you as "manufacturer's spec sheet."navin said:
I looked at the spec sheets for the Delta Pro and Deltalite Pro drivers.
Me thoroughly confused.
Tarun
Re: Re: Re: Hi...
those bose drivers look expensive compared to the TB. also i find their prices for other stuff a bit high. the Klipsch Heresey woofers for example are rare but at $79? and the bose 3" tweeters they used to be got fro $7 each from A&S in teh old days that is retail. in qty u could get them for $10 a pair or less.
so we now got 2 things going a vifa purchase and a TB purchase.
ah the peerless dome. maybe i should get a pair and see. are the bolton 6.5" angshu uses are availale at chowdry? what is the price?
tcpip said:
those bose drivers look expensive compared to the TB. also i find their prices for other stuff a bit high. the Klipsch Heresey woofers for example are rare but at $79? and the bose 3" tweeters they used to be got fro $7 each from A&S in teh old days that is retail. in qty u could get them for $10 a pair or less.
so we now got 2 things going a vifa purchase and a TB purchase.
ah the peerless dome. maybe i should get a pair and see. are the bolton 6.5" angshu uses are availale at chowdry? what is the price?
Ok time for the t/s thread resident China hack to stick his neck out!
Sangram:
You have correctly presented the big picture. Facilities in China are definitely world class. And their better things (which obviously don’t make it to India) are at par with international expectations. And these things aren’t cheap either.
The range of Chinese AV equipment is mind-boggling. Their specs are impeccable. Designs are based on famous international brands since many of these Chinese companies do sub-contracting for Sony, Pioneer, NAD etc. Now the funny part. You will get the exact clone of a top of line Nakamichi or Sony HT system for a fraction of their cost. In most instances it will be made by a respectable Chinese company such a Yelo, but branded “Nakamishi” or “Soniyo” or such. I’ve auditioned some of these clones and must admit they did sound quite ok. Don’t’ know about the quality of component used. you can buy a decent looking 3 way floor stander and sub combination for around 1200RMB. A 5.1 channel “Nakamishi” can be had for around 600RMB. It all depends on your bargaining skill. In most of the “fake” markets discounting can run to almost 90% of the list price.
I’m using Chinese MKP caps and quite happy with them. I’ve also bought several PIO caps china, which I intend to put in a tube crossover project soon.
My china experience comes from travelling there several times. Just last month I participated in a CEO’s delegation to China organised by the CII and visited almost 25 companies.
As Sangram rightly says, you need to specify what you need. But it doesn’t automatically means that you wont get crap. Chinese motorbikes are a point. They are nowhere near the Indian QA standards.
Navin:
We are moving up. Atleast in OE auto-component we are ahead of the Chinese. We are somewhere with the Korean on this one wrt to value perception. Trust me. I can help is sourcing items such a Caps, Speakers, Cable etc from China. I’m next schedule to visit Guangzhou / Shenzen area coming Jan.
Sangram:
You have correctly presented the big picture. Facilities in China are definitely world class. And their better things (which obviously don’t make it to India) are at par with international expectations. And these things aren’t cheap either.
The range of Chinese AV equipment is mind-boggling. Their specs are impeccable. Designs are based on famous international brands since many of these Chinese companies do sub-contracting for Sony, Pioneer, NAD etc. Now the funny part. You will get the exact clone of a top of line Nakamichi or Sony HT system for a fraction of their cost. In most instances it will be made by a respectable Chinese company such a Yelo, but branded “Nakamishi” or “Soniyo” or such. I’ve auditioned some of these clones and must admit they did sound quite ok. Don’t’ know about the quality of component used. you can buy a decent looking 3 way floor stander and sub combination for around 1200RMB. A 5.1 channel “Nakamishi” can be had for around 600RMB. It all depends on your bargaining skill. In most of the “fake” markets discounting can run to almost 90% of the list price.
I’m using Chinese MKP caps and quite happy with them. I’ve also bought several PIO caps china, which I intend to put in a tube crossover project soon.
My china experience comes from travelling there several times. Just last month I participated in a CEO’s delegation to China organised by the CII and visited almost 25 companies.
As Sangram rightly says, you need to specify what you need. But it doesn’t automatically means that you wont get crap. Chinese motorbikes are a point. They are nowhere near the Indian QA standards.
Navin:
We are moving up. Atleast in OE auto-component we are ahead of the Chinese. We are somewhere with the Korean on this one wrt to value perception. Trust me. I can help is sourcing items such a Caps, Speakers, Cable etc from China. I’m next schedule to visit Guangzhou / Shenzen area coming Jan.
Not you!
Tarun
Hey, this was not a comment on your opinions. It just so happened that I was thinking of your comments on Seleniums, and I went scouting through the Eminence pages to see what kind of Qts and Xmax a competing manufacturer offers. What I saw there caught me by surprise. 🙂
Tarun
Bolton poly cone mids are at Chaudhury Trading
Don't delay! Call now!! 😎
Tarun
I believe they are. And prices are about Rs.650/ea, though I've not checked with Deepak Chaudhury. Ask for the poly cone 6.5" mids. You can call him (very important, considering how lazy you are when it comes to moving around in the city 😀 ) and his phone numbers are on his Website on the first page itself.navin said:
Don't delay! Call now!! 😎
Tarun
Anyone have any opinions on "Invisible" speakers, which are a Bose clone made in Cal by a guy called Surajit Paul? A friend is looking to get a music system for his house, and this is an option.
Thanks!
George
Thanks!
George
Cool let us know what we can source reliably from china. drivers? caps? tubes? i am quite sure teh prices will be attractive.
I am looking at TB style full ranges too.
choice of drivers depend a lot on specs but a cheap ring radiator would be interesting as would be lookalikes of the Scan Speak Xt series.
my main objective is to get as much qualty out of as small a box as possible. I would like to make a good speaker with a box under 20 liters. F3 about 40Hz, SPL at 50Hz 95db etc.
there are 2 options I am looking at. using a 3 way with a mid from 250-4000Hz (2x8 or 1x10" woofer, 4" midrange, ring radiator as tweeter) an example of the kind of drivers i am looking at are the ones from SS but I cant afford them.
woofer:
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/26w_8861t00a.htm
or
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/22w_8851t00a.htm
midrange:
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/15m_4531k00a.htm
or
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/12m_4631g00a.htm
tweeter:
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/r2904_700000a.htm
or a 2 way with a fullrange and a woofer and a sub for the low bass. in either case I am trying to avoid using a XO between 250 and 4k.
for this I am looking at the Jordan JX92 mated to a 6" woofer from SEAS (W15CY001) or Fostex FE103 mated to the a Seas (W12CY001) or either the JX92 or FE103 mated to a SS (15W4531 / 15W8530) woofer.
I am looking at TB style full ranges too.
choice of drivers depend a lot on specs but a cheap ring radiator would be interesting as would be lookalikes of the Scan Speak Xt series.
my main objective is to get as much qualty out of as small a box as possible. I would like to make a good speaker with a box under 20 liters. F3 about 40Hz, SPL at 50Hz 95db etc.
there are 2 options I am looking at. using a 3 way with a mid from 250-4000Hz (2x8 or 1x10" woofer, 4" midrange, ring radiator as tweeter) an example of the kind of drivers i am looking at are the ones from SS but I cant afford them.
woofer:
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/26w_8861t00a.htm
or
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/22w_8851t00a.htm
midrange:
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/15m_4531k00a.htm
or
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/12m_4631g00a.htm
tweeter:
http://www.d-s-t.com/scs/data/r2904_700000a.htm
or a 2 way with a fullrange and a woofer and a sub for the low bass. in either case I am trying to avoid using a XO between 250 and 4k.
for this I am looking at the Jordan JX92 mated to a 6" woofer from SEAS (W15CY001) or Fostex FE103 mated to the a Seas (W12CY001) or either the JX92 or FE103 mated to a SS (15W4531 / 15W8530) woofer.
Navin,
Could this be the one from Sanen....he also had some similar tradename...'Rave '...i dont remember exactly...a family of floor standers bookshelves and all ...if both are the same...then Sanen
uses drivers assembled by themselves...they import raw materials like magnet assemblies, baskets , cones etc and gets them assembled here...At the bangalore AV-Expo they had displayed some of them...i saw names like 'klipsh' etc engraved on some of the components...no idea how authentic they are...
I had mailed him couple of times but no encouraging replies...!
Btw navin, if i recollect correctly u had tried to contact him some time bk...
What happened...?
ajju
There used to be one another Local manufacturer...
'Salora'...any one familiar with the brand...!
I saw their products some time back...arnd 2-3 yrs bk infact when i was in college...! And i got information from various sources that these guys used to supply BPL...!!
Any info...?
ajju
'Salora'...any one familiar with the brand...!
I saw their products some time back...arnd 2-3 yrs bk infact when i was in college...! And i got information from various sources that these guys used to supply BPL...!!
Any info...?
ajju
George, it must be the Invisible speaker system from Digital Acoustics you are talking about. I had a chance to listen to them about two years ago and they are good.
Navin,
I intend to try using a different amp and try it but I did not try my setup with a different receiver. But back home, I removed the earth wire on the amplifier mains plug and it became very silent. I will have to research further.
Navin,
I intend to try using a different amp and try it but I did not try my setup with a different receiver. But back home, I removed the earth wire on the amplifier mains plug and it became very silent. I will have to research further.
Hey...!
Do u mean there's a direct connection from the Ground/Earth on the mains plug to the ground on ur amp ...?? 😱
I mean starting from the Reciever output, Does the sheild(ground) of the Line out have a direct path to Mains Earth.?
The mains ground, the centre tap of the transformer and the junction of the positive and negative of the power supply filter caps are all connected. All this is in the amp I made. But the receiver has no connection directly to the mains ground/ earth.
Is the attatched figure correct..?
And is it true that removing a-b solves the problem.
If yes, that shpuld be the way it is.
It is NOT advised to connect a-b directly...If at all required it has to be through a high value resistance bypassed by a capacitor. But it is not recomended.
ajju
And is it true that removing a-b solves the problem.
If yes, that shpuld be the way it is.
It is NOT advised to connect a-b directly...If at all required it has to be through a high value resistance bypassed by a capacitor. But it is not recomended.
ajju
Attachments
ajju said:
i tried calling them i had a mobile number that kept ringing they must have got my caller ID but they never called back after 3-4 tries on 3-4 different times and days I gave up.
Ajju, what you have shown in the figure is what I had done. Now, I have just disconnected the earth from the mains.
Made in China
Ok time for the t/s thread resident China hack to stick his neck out!
snip, snip
I suspect that Ashok's first hand assessment is spot on-there are also now a growing number of valves and power amps coming from China, and their 300B TJB Meshplate valve is considered one of the best. I have used a Chinese 5AR4 in my Welborne Labs amp, and given their space technology, none of this should come as a surprise. Many of their products are export driven, which is not true in India, and this may be a key factor in defining quality for home Vs foreign markets, Nakamishi Vs Nakamichi!
George
Ok time for the t/s thread resident China hack to stick his neck out!
snip, snip
I suspect that Ashok's first hand assessment is spot on-there are also now a growing number of valves and power amps coming from China, and their 300B TJB Meshplate valve is considered one of the best. I have used a Chinese 5AR4 in my Welborne Labs amp, and given their space technology, none of this should come as a surprise. Many of their products are export driven, which is not true in India, and this may be a key factor in defining quality for home Vs foreign markets, Nakamishi Vs Nakamichi!
George
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